What are we doing in Afghanistan?

[Cliffy]

I just asked some soldiers I knew who were actually on the ground, they don't seem to match the story your media is feeding you.

And what story is that? The one where our soldiers walk around all day with sand up their cracks, carefully stepping through the poppy fields so as not disturb the plants (Global News), watching their buddies getting blown up? Carrying their coffins to the air craft for the final flight home, supporting a puppet government made up of what appears to be the Afghan equivalent of the Mafia? Spending much of their time killing time with the occasional firefight with disgruntled Afghan peasants who really don't like having their country occupied by foreigners? (They've been fighting and evicting foreigners for hundreds of years and we're next).

It is a losing proposition and we a getting our kids killed for nothing. That is my observation based on a balance of mainstream and alternative press sources. If you think it is such a good idea, how come you are sitting at home and not fighting the good fight?

 

[Zzarchov]

Getting "your" kids killed? they aren't your personal possessions and belongings. They want to be there or they don't stay in the forces.

This isn't a damn draft.

Waaaay too much propaganda getting to you there. If the Afghan peasants really didn't want us there, we would be in a war.

100 people across several years (including such things as traffic accidents) is that really how you think an insurgency with popular support plays out?

We would have a hundred bodies a week if they wanted us out.

 

[Colpy]

As a nation of 33 million, we have lost 100 people in 7 YEARS of war in which we are trying to prevent yet another attack on North America............and a large portion of our population want to "cut and run"

In 1943, at Dieppe, our nation of 12 million lost 704 dead in 7 HOURS in a war which, at that time, had nothing to do with North America........and the population by and large, never wavered.

We are fast becoming endangered by our lack of will, our spinelessness, our inability to act in our own interests.

The world is a violent place, sometimes you have to step up and kick ass.....

 

[Just the Facts]

We are fast becoming endangered by our lack of will, our spinelessness, our inability to act in our own interests.

Very true. The enemy is well aware of that and is counting on it. Recall Bin Laden's "Paper Tiger" comment.

Just like Dieppe was not a war, Afghanistan is not a war. This war is global. Afghanistan is just a theatre of operation.

 

[L Gilbert]

I think that if you are going to proceed in an activity that is as stupid and as wasteful as war is, you should be prepared to accept that the enemy won't play by your rules and use their own rules against them. They terrorize your loved ones? Terrorize theirs.

 

[Tyr]

As a nation of 33 million, we have lost 100 people in 7 YEARS of war in which we are trying to prevent yet another attack on North America............and a large portion of our population want to "cut and run"

In 1943, at Dieppe, our nation of 12 million lost 704 dead in 7 HOURS in a war which, at that time, had nothing to do with North America........and the population by and large, never wavered.

We are fast becoming endangered by our lack of will, our spinelessness, our inability to act in our own interests.

The world is a violent place, sometimes you have to step up and kick ass.....

uh huh. And just how does your rant relate to Afghnaistan in a logical way?

We are fast becoming endangered by our lack of will, our spinelessness, our inability to act in our own interests.

We are fast becoming the 51st State whose will has been determined by an unbalanced president who desires us to act in his own best interest (and of course KBR, Haliburton, etc)

The world is a violent place and we are ill equipped (and obviously ill-informed) to do something about a reaction to American economic expansionism. I'd call it "getting sucked into the void"

We are spineless as we are following someone wh o does not have Canada's best interest in mind, but rather a neoconservative, reactionary political master to impress

 

[JLM]

As a nation of 33 million, we have lost 100 people in 7 YEARS of war in which we are trying to prevent yet another attack on North America............and a large portion of our population want to "cut and run"

In 1943, at Dieppe, our nation of 12 million lost 704 dead in 7 HOURS in a war which, at that time, had nothing to do with North America........and the population by and large, never wavered.

We are fast becoming endangered by our lack of will, our spinelessness, our inability to act in our own interests.

The world is a violent place, sometimes you have to step up and kick ass.....

I agree up to a point, BUT we've already fought two wars supposedly to end all wars. The numbers are mainly irrelevent, whether it's several thousand or just one in the event "the one" happens to be you or a family member.

 

[benny_patrick7]

Three more soldiers were killed in Afghanistan on the same stretch of the highway as the previous 3. Now, we are told that Canadian soldiers are needed there to help Afghan people while nobody asks a very simple question: why among 30 million Afghanis, during 7 years, they couldn't find 2,000 people who would be able to replace Canadian soldiers? If the answer is that Afghanis in 7 years couldn't learn how to handle Canadian weapons, then I respectfully submit that they seem to be quite skilful in planting a huge bomb on the same road several times and quite successfully kill Canadian soldiers inside heavily protected vehicle. Who is teaching those people?

Ask the right questions and stop this nonsense about helping Afghani people. If Afghani people wanted to fight Taliban, they would have made a million people army with no problem. The truth is that they do not want to fight Taliban. Crooked Karzai still cannot find 100 Afghanis to protect him. He is still under protection of Americans. Why are we agreeing to sacrifice our soldiers for this crook?

Fabrikant

 

[mabudon]

Good Question Benny.

Probably too good actually

 

[Cliffy]

Yup indeed! It seems that there are those here that can't be bothered to look past the propaganda. The history of the west's interference in the middle east is the cause of life being so cheap that the only thing they have left to do is fight in suicide missions against a much bigger and armed foreign force.

Yes, Canadians are spineless, Colpy, but not for the reasons you put forward.

 

[Tyr]

The western worlds policy of interference in affairs of other countries is not the result of 9/11 or the Cole or the bombing in Sudan. It is the cause of those actions

 

[Zzarchov]

Three more soldiers were killed in Afghanistan on the same stretch of the highway as the previous 3. Now, we are told that Canadian soldiers are needed there to help Afghan people while nobody asks a very simple question: why among 30 million Afghanis, during 7 years, they couldn't find 2,000 people who would be able to replace Canadian soldiers? If the answer is that Afghanis in 7 years couldn't learn how to handle Canadian weapons, then I respectfully submit that they seem to be quite skilful in planting a huge bomb on the same road several times and quite successfully kill Canadian soldiers inside heavily protected vehicle. Who is teaching those people?

Ask the right questions and stop this nonsense about helping Afghani people. If Afghani people wanted to fight Taliban, they would have made a million people army with no problem. The truth is that they do not want to fight Taliban. Crooked Karzai still cannot find 100 Afghanis to protect him. He is still under protection of Americans. Why are we agreeing to sacrifice our soldiers for this crook?

Fabrikant

I should point out, the Afghan army is larger than our own forces in Afghanistan. But your post is otherwise mostly a solid point.

My counter point is that if they wanted us out they also could have made a million man army and forced US out.

Most Afghani's just don't care which foreign power runs the place, as long as they work on making the country better.

 

[Scott Free]

Crooked Karzai still cannot find 100 Afghanis to protect him. He is still under protection of Americans. Why are we agreeing to sacrifice our soldiers for this crook?

He is a CIA operative born out of the Mujahideen and is therefore an American puppet. The Afghani people no doubt see him as a traitor or, in the very least, transitory, that is, someone who will have to be removed or deposed. It is a well established tact of imperialists to establish dictators in such situations to calm regions of interest, and therefore, his families strong support of Zahir Shah would make him very suspect indeed. We protect him because he supports our intrests in that he is a fascist.

This is a bit much for us to comprehend, I realize, since our propaganda proclaims we are the "good guys," and most North Americans can only think in black and white cartoons.

 

[mabudon]

Tho as far as things "getting better", well the only real solid attacks seem to be focused on foreign invaders as far as I recall over the last while- totally different than in Iraq where actual Iraqis seem to be taking the lions share of the violence- oh and I suppose instruments of the western puppet regime are also in the crossfire ("afghani police" mostly)

Seems to me, that if the foreign invaders left, the violence against same would diminish fairly thoroughly

YES there is still quite a bit of random violence born out of religious fundamentalism/intolerance, but from what I've read that's kind of par for the course in Afghanistan

And seriously if our 2000 troops are SERIOUS about fixing things up and leaving, our PRIORITY should be re-defined. Why do we even HAVE "supply lines" through dangerous areas?? We should be in one super safe place training as many Afghanis as possible. If we can't train them in one year LET ALONE SEVEN, they can't be trained, the situation is totally hopeless and we should withdraw.

OH but then the terrorist training camps would return?? Utter BS. More could be done with a couple dozen deep-cover types and a lockdown on travel into or out of Afghanistan- if the "terrorist training camps" were the problem why are we at "war" with an unknown, unidentifiable segment of the population?? The camps are gone, that's "mission accomplished". Why further fighting is necessary can't be explained reasonably in my view, the job was done and now all that is really required is vigilance.

If we can't get such a simple objective as training done in 7 years, no amount of time is going to do it. I really do look forward to the day when this is finally understood for the utterly pointless exercise that it is.

I mean damn, with the economic meltdown, Canada should be functioning just like a family- cost/benefit analysis and get rid of the stuff that has very little benefit and huge cost. In my area we're losing a few hospitals- should I feel good that, as I bleed out from some stupid random injury, a crappy hospital has been built in Afghanistan??

I hope "yes" is not the answer that springs to mind, I should be damn furious. If we can hadrly afford to maintain our own damn country we have NO business trying to rebuild ANY other countries, period

 

[barney]

Most Afghani's just don't care which foreign power runs the place, as long as they work on making the country better.

Exactly.

All Afghanis ever wanted was to be rid of corrupt warlords interfering in their lives (especially in the case of women) and live in peace so they could slowly emerge from out of the dark ages. Instead, their country was bombed into the stone age and the only people they really wanted to see gone are now our 'allies.'

 

[Socrates the Greek]

What are we doing in Afghanistan? We are wasting our bright men and women, squandering doe we do not have, and the end result will be that the prize doesn’t fit the exercise. Ala Iraq the west will go away not having the job finished because the job is far bigger then originally thought by Bush the war mongered, and his acolytes.

 

[benny_patrick7]

I should point out, the Afghan army is larger than our own forces in Afghanistan. But your post is otherwise mostly a solid point.

My counter point is that if they wanted us out they also could have made a million man army and forced US out.

This is not a counter point, because they cannot hire army which will be directed AGAINST coalition, because coalition just doesn't allow even to start. The fact that they cannot have couple of thousand people to replace Canadians speaks volumes.

Most Afghani's just don't care which foreign power runs the place, as long as they work on making the country better.

You are 100% wrong. Just imagine a situation. Some people manage to get to a highway, dig a big hole, place a lot of explosives and then cover it up. This is certainly not a 5 minute thing. People are traveling highway and they certainly see that somebody is planting bomb, and not a single person informs Canadians about it. This doesn't look like to me indifference.

Now, imagine another situation. People travel this highway and the bomb explodes when Canadians are nearby. This means that somebody is watching this place and trigger the bomb when Canadians are nearby. Does this tell you something?

 

[Tyr]

The Pentagon has made clear that the U.S. will leave Afghanistan when the ragtag Afghan security forces have been beefed up to the point at which they can keep the peace without help. "Significantly expanding [Afghanistan's national security forces] is, in fact, our exit strategy," Defense Secretary Robert Gates told U.S. troops in Kandahar last week. But that's a strategy that could leave U.S. forces in Afghanistan for quite some time to come. The economy of impoverished Afghanistan is unlikely, for the foreseeable future, to be able to sustain an army big enough to guarantee the country's security. And that's just one of several thorny issues likely to make success in Afghanistan harder to achieve than in Iraq — unless the U.S. scales back its ambitious goals for the country. Such a rethink may be in the cards, U.S. military officers say, as internal U.S. reviews and President-elect Barack Obama give the seven-year war a fresh look.

 

[Colpy]

This is not a counter point, because they cannot hire army which will be directed AGAINST coalition, because coalition just doesn't allow even to start. The fact that they cannot have couple of thousand people to replace Canadians speaks volumes.



You are 100% wrong. Just imagine a situation. Some people manage to get to a highway, dig a big hole, place a lot of explosives and then cover it up. This is certainly not a 5 minute thing. People are traveling highway and they certainly see that somebody is planting bomb, and not a single person informs Canadians about it. This doesn't look like to me indifference.

Now, imagine another situation. People travel this highway and the bomb explodes when Canadians are nearby. This means that somebody is watching this place and trigger the bomb when Canadians are nearby. Does this tell you something?

Yeah, it tells me we need to kill more Taliban, so citizens will be safe after they talk to Canadians..........

 

[darkbeaver]

I should point out, the Afghan army is larger than our own forces in Afghanistan. But your post is otherwise mostly a solid point.

My counter point is that if they wanted us out they also could have made a million man army and forced US out.

Most Afghani's just don't care which foreign power runs the place, as long as they work on making the country better.

You actually don't have a counter point Zzarchov. Air power decides what Afghans can and cannot do. Afghans in majority want all foreigners out of their country yesterday. Three weeks after a withdrawl the country would be at peace and healing. There is no plan to make Afghanistan better only to keep it reeling barely able to stand so when it has to be crushed it'll be half a job, same as Iraq and the same as us eventually.