What are we doing in Afghanistan?

[bellevuebully]

Cheers folks, new poster, just found the site tonight. Didn't even know this thread existed till just now. Very ironic (I'll explain). Btw, I only scanned a few of the posts as I just want to state my view without outside influence. I'll go back and read the thread more thoroughly once I've posted.

Afganistan?? Based on lies. Not much more to say. Read between the lines. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Rumsfeld, Giulliani, Paulson, Bernanke, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Halliburton, Federal Reserve, 600Trillion USD in derivitives sold internationally, Corperate bailouts, The 911 Commission, Norad failure on 911, CONgress..............I mean, who really believes this pack of venomous liars anymore. Rant complete.

Btw, let me explain the irony I mentioned. Came home after work and my wife tells me one of the boys that got repatriated in a body bag today was one of the kids' schoolfriends dad. ****ty does not describe how I feel when I think of what a waste of life that is. That man entrusted his life and limb to the political will of our REPRESENTATIVES (read civil SERVANTS) trusting that his call to duty would come only at the risk to our Constitution and Security of our homeland. I for one do not think what has been attempted in Afganistan and Iraq is worth one tear that will roll down the cheeks of his children tonight.

I hope Stephen and his cabinet ministers (lack of capitalization intended) sleep well tonite.

Feel free to send this message to any public representative. I have never done this before, but enough is enough.

 

[Cliffy]

Well Bellevuebully,

It is time you did. Even though our "elected representatives" are more beholding to those that finance their campaigns than to those who elected them, your voice is crucial to our governmental system. The trick is to start a movement. Put you heart into you words. Inspire others to do likewise and flood our MPs with mail that says with a clear and passionate voice, Get The Hell Out! We have no business being US flunkies. We can stand on our own two feet and our own principles. What we are doing in Afghanistan is unprincipled and hypocritical.

We invaded a country with a ruling party that was aided and abetted by the US and then fell from grace with the US because they had the audacity to say, "we don't take orders from you, so PO." The same thing happened in Iraq. How come all our boogymen were former allies and were financed by the US. Could this just be a set up? Osama, Noriega, Pinochet, Hussein, Taliban... doesn't anybody see a pattern here? Why are we supporting these barbarians? The US doesn't deserve our support.

 

[bellevuebully]

I totally agree with you. The problem is most still think in terms of team red and team blue in Canada, much like in the USSA. The problem is, all of these government figures are front men for a larger engine. People fail to step back and take a look at the big picture and string together politics with banking with huge monetary interests with corrupt track records. No. They're more willing to swallow the rhetoric that we are accomplishing something noble, we're liberating and empowering them, we're, well, freeing the shti out of them.

Well, like the OP said, Afghanistan...why the hell are we there??? I know why, and it stinks worse than rotten flesh.

 

[Cliffy]

Bellevuebully,

Yes, and every time you point to the money behind the motivation, everybody says "conspiracy theory" and stick their heads back up their butts.

"Don't confuse me with facts. I like the smell in here."

 

[bellevuebully]

Bellevuebully,

Yes, and every time you point to the money behind the motivation, everybody says "conspiracy theory" and stick their heads back up their butts.

"Don't confuse me with facts. I like the smell in here."

I wish this forum had sig lines. Do you mind if I use that on another site?

 

[bellevuebully]

My mistake, I see the wall. Going toward the wall......

 

[bellevuebully]

Oooooww! They got me. I'll wait. LOL

 

[Cliffy]

I wish this forum had sig lines. Do you mind if I use that on another site?

Bellevuebully,

Sure, I haven't copyrighted it yet.

 

[MHz]

Just one question MHz: why the quotes around the word, terrorists? Did I miss something?

Can you tell which model of AK it is from the photo on this page?
Evidence being deliberately ignored? « Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz

The only video I have seen put the police and the gunmen at quite close range, less than 50 yds. Close enough that you would need time to aim a single-shot repeater
I keep running into articles like this, so I'm still doing some reading so I'm not positive about any report, let alone the official one.
Alex Jones' Prison Planet: The truth will set you free!

 

[barney]

Can you tell which model of AK it is from the photo on this page?
Evidence being deliberately ignored? « Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz

The only video I have seen put the police and the gunmen at quite close range, less than 50 yds. Close enough that you would need time to aim a single-shot repeater
I keep running into articles like this, so I'm still doing some reading so I'm not positive about any report, let alone the official one.
Alex Jones' Prison Planet: The truth will set you free!

He's moving his arm in that image so there's no way to tell--could be a 74, I doubt a 101 (most variants of the AK look the same from the distance. Although 47s are very widely available and dirt cheap so I just assumed.

Of course, if using something like a .303, you have to put distance between you and the target. As I said, the police used bad procedures.

As for the nature of the terrorists, yeah it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a FF. Although were that to be the case, police at the local level are unlikely to have been aware of it. Anyway, the politics behind it don't really matter much to the victims now.

 

[Zzarchov]

I'll qualify that for you Scratch. As a fighting force we are one of the worlds best. As a world power we aren't much

Canadian soldiers' training is among the best if not the best in the world. Our equipment leaves alot to be desired

That being said, we constantly overreach our capabilities (Afghanistan) vis-a-vis logistics and equipment. We are "best" at being part of a peace keeping force, not leading an invasion

Ok, seriously, Are you ex-military? Then you know peace keeping has been for decades a politically correct way of saying "invading and occupying a third world country"

Its also a nice way of denying veterans benefits (or was).

Peace Keeping has a very specific meaning, it means going between to soveriegn nations and stationing observers, threatening to declare war on any side that shot your troops in the crossfire.

What "peace keeping" we've been selling has been invading countries and occupying them with Military force.

If Afghanistan became "peace keeping" instead of a war, do you know what would change? We wouldn't hear mention of the deaths on the news anymore and it wouldn't be officially a war.

Its exactly the same thing. We don't do more and often do less reconstruction, we still drive around in vehicles being bombed and shot at.

Its insulting when people throw the word peacekeeper around like they know what it means, when it really means they never gave a damn about Canadian soldiers lives before it became Chic to do so and protest the "war"

 

[Mongul]

They are paid to do this because these Companies have the expertise and ability to do this job. It obtain the contract via a bidding system designed to ensure that the job is done as cheaply as possible.

Where, oh where do you get your info Mongol????

The vast majority of "scurity" and reconstruction jobs contracted to American companies are "sole sourced". They rarely (if ever) get an RFP/RFQ issued. Have you never heard of Haliburton and their Defence subsidiary?

Try reading some background before you post

Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers is a 2006 documentary by Robert Greenwald.

one thng wrong and the vultures descend upon me.

I DO NOT SUPPORT IRAQ
I AGREE THAT IT IS MISMANAGED
HOWEVER, MISMANAGEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL WAR PROFITTEERING.
if your definition is that there are people who make money off war, then you can claim that every war is a profitteering endeavor. Which would significantly reduce the impact of your statement, since there will always be someone "profitting" from something, its the nature of society, its capitalism, its human nature.

that is all

 

[MHz]

one thng wrong and the vultures descend upon me.

I DO NOT SUPPORT IRAQ
I AGREE THAT IT IS MISMANAGED
HOWEVER, MISMANAGEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL WAR PROFITTEERING.
if your definition is that there are people who make money off war, then you can claim that every war is a profitteering endeavor. Which would significantly reduce the impact of your statement, since there will always be someone "profitting" from something, its the nature of society, its capitalism, its human nature.

that is all

It is profiteering if any wars are started as a means to keep those companies producing war goods non-stop. Fear mongering so the sale of weapons takes in tons of money for a few companies year after year after year.

 

[Mongul]

It is profiteering if any wars are started as a means to keep those companies producing war goods non-stop. Fear mongering so the sale of weapons takes in tons of money for a few companies year after year after year.

then why commit troops? why not just sell weaponry to rebel factions in saddam's regime and have no american casualties? The Kurds would love to get their hands on premium US equipment, and companies like lockheed would reap massive benefits. America has been supplying arms since WW2, i don't see why an administration would risk waging an unpopular war simply to benefit companies when there are far less PR damaging methods of securing profits for weapons companies.

 

[MHz]

What do you think the Iraq-Iran War was (with Iraq being the original aggressor), it was a war without US troops but with US weapons. The only reason for that war is the US was pissed at being tossed out of Iran (after about 25 years of supporting a few and the majority seeing no benefit). If they had been benefiting the majority (like Kuwait) there would have been no revolution. The profits from oil were going US companies and a few in the puppet govt. They were more interested in building military installations than they were in building universities, etc.
Well they sure seem to find a way to get around any bans about supplying weapons to as many as they can, even if it is a gift as per Israel, the tab gets sent to their own countrymen.
To make the war popular is why they have a PR machine, lying is certainly one of their tools.
Who gets the majority of the profits from these oil deals coming up, US corporations who get a locked deal that could cover up to 40 years just on existing fields, that does not include any new finds. How much money is that and they also get paid for security and other things. Of the 900trillion or so 80-90% ends up in the hands of the US without ever going through the hands of the Iraqi's first. That is robbery.

 

[Tyr]

one thng wrong and the vultures descend upon me.

I DO NOT SUPPORT IRAQ
I AGREE THAT IT IS MISMANAGED
HOWEVER, MISMANAGEMENT DOES NOT EQUAL WAR PROFITTEERING.
if your definition is that there are people who make money off war, then you can claim that every war is a profitteering endeavor. Which would significantly reduce the impact of your statement, since there will always be someone "profitting" from something, its the nature of society, its capitalism, its human nature.

that is all

if your definition is that there are people who make money off war, then you can claim that every war is a profitteering endeavor.

That's all good and well Mongol. but you were talking about Iraq.

Wars generally cost money. The Iraq war has put the USA massively in debt. Conversely, the people supplying the slkills and expertise (services and material) made record profits.

Based on that, I'd call it embezzelment and they should be looking through bars as they have ripped off their own gov't

 

[Tyr]

then why commit troops? why not just sell weaponry to rebel factions in saddam's regime and have no american casualties? The Kurds would love to get their hands on premium US equipment, and companies like lockheed would reap massive benefits. America has been supplying arms since WW2, i don't see why an administration would risk waging an unpopular war simply to benefit companies when there are far less PR damaging methods of securing profits for weapons companies.

That is the reality of it. The USA, Russia and China do it all the time and it's just the arms trade. How do you think Pakistan and Israel maintain their armed forces?

From a national perspective, it actually makes more sense, but you have the risk of losing control of the weapons

 

[SonsOfWaldorf]

I'll qualify that for you Scratch. As a fighting force we are one of the worlds best. As a world power we aren't much

Canadian soldiers' training is among the best if not the best in the world. Our equipment leaves alot to be desired

That being said, we constantly overreach our capabilities (Afghanistan) vis-a-vis logistics and equipment. We are "best" at being part of a peace keeping force, not leading an invasion

The 90's are over. Over the past couple of years our military has been beefed up, especially the army because Afghanistan. For the most part our equipment is pretty good.

It disappoints me to see so many people buy into the peace keeping myth. We are best getting the job done peace keeping or combat.

 

[Cliffy]

This "Better Dead than Red" attitude is so passe, but hey! you wanna go kill some rag heads for Jesus, I guess that's between you and your maker. There won't be 72 vestal virgins waiting for you in the great beyond. The BS we are fed here by our media and politicians ain't what you are gonna find on the ground over there. Losing your life to discover you've been had is a damn high price to pay.

 

[Zzarchov]

This "Better Dead than Red" attitude is so passe, but hey! you wanna go kill some rag heads for Jesus, I guess that's between you and your maker. There won't be 72 vestal virgins waiting for you in the great beyond. The BS we are fed here by our media and politicians ain't what you are gonna find on the ground over there. Losing your life to discover you've been had is a damn high price to pay.

....

So you've been over to Afghanistan? Or are you just basing this on BS you've been fed by a different media with its own agenda?

I just asked some soldiers I knew who were actually on the ground, they don't seem to match the story your media is feeding you.

But hey, they were just actually there seeing for themselves, Im sure they must be wrong because they disagree with you.