What are we doing in Afghanistan?

[MHz]

At the high end of the scale, British polling institute Opinion Research Business in a report published on January 30 estimated the total number of civilian deaths at between 946,000 and 1.12 million.
Civilian death toll in Iraq may have surpassed 1 million

 

[Cliffy]

Oh yeah thats right Venezuela is the paradigm of prosperity, their supermarkets and democratic freedoms are the ENVY of the world

Yes, democracy depends on how many shopping malls you have in your country. Does Wally World decide who is democratic enough? You sound like a right wing propaganda junkie.

 

[MHz]

MHz,

She may have bad intel (like Dubbya) but I don't disbelieve her sincerity. I would trust her word before any that came out of the West. Her integrity got her killed.

Then again she was also well connected so her intel could be quite correct.

 

[Cliffy]

Then again she was also well connected so her intel could be quite correct.

That is just as plausible. She was a great leader, she put the the well being of her people before her own safety. There is certainly nobody in Canada or any western country that could hold a candle to her.

 

[Mongul]

Your article sounds like all speculation, it tries to make the argument that the Afghanistan War was to allow Unocal (now defunct) to construct an oil pipeline to the gulf in order to export oil. It ignores the fact that such a pipline is still not under-construction due to the instability of Afghanistan. Also, it failed to mention the other groups involved in the construction of such a pipeline which are listed here. Nor did it acknowledge the reason why the taliban was not on the list of rogue states, since before 9/11 the US governments have been quite lax concerning terrorism.

your source seems to not understand the importance of citation, which is why i have qualms with what is stated in the following paragraph

Since feudal times the landholding system in Afghanistan had remained unchanged, with more than 75 percent of the land owned by big landlords who comprised only 3 percent of the rural population. In the mid-1960s, democratic revolutionary elements coalesced to form the People’s Democratic Party (PDP). In 1973, the king was deposed, but the government that replaced him proved to be autocratic, corrupt, and unpopular. It in turn was forced out in 1978 after a massive demonstration in front of the presidential palace, and after the army intervened on the side of the demonstrators.

The military officers who took charge invited the PDP to form a new government under the leadership of Noor Mohammed Taraki, a poet and novelist. This is how a Marxist-led coalition of national democratic forces came into office. “It was a totally indigenous happening. Not even the CIA blamed the USSR for it,” writes John Ryan, a retired professor at the University of Winnipeg, who was conducting an agricultural research project in Afghanistan at about that time.

but according to wikipedia, the PDPA did organize with the Military to topple the "autocratic" regime

In 1978 a prominent member of Parcham, Mir Akbar Khyber (or "Kaibar"), was killed by the government and his associates. Although the government issued a statement deploring the assassination, PDPA leaders apparently feared that Daoud was planning to exterminate them all. Shortly after a massive protest against the government during the funeral ceremonies of Mir Akbar Khaibar most of the leaders of PDPA were arrested by the government. Amin and a number of military wing officers of the PDPA Khalq wing stayed out of prison. This gave a chance to the group to organize an uprising. The government with the help of PDPA military members fell and the PDPA leadership was out of jail. Nur Mohammad Taraki, Babrak Karmal, and Hafizullah Amin overthrew the regime of Mohammad Daoud, and renaming the country the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA). The word 'Saur' means 'April' in Pushto.[2]

Looks like your article deliberately misleads to get his point across, how sad

 

[Mongul]

Oh yeah thats right Venezuela is the paradigm of prosperity, their supermarkets and democratic freedoms are the ENVY of the world

Yes, democracy depends on how many shopping malls you have in your country. Does Wally World decide who is democratic enough? You sound like a right wing propaganda junkie.

Glourious Leader Chavez is a Strongman

CARACAS, Venezuela: President Hugo Chavez is threatening to imprison a popular opposition leader, roll tanks into the streets and use force to defend the results of Sunday's state and local elections.
The vote is an important test of Chavez's support a year after Venezuelans rejected his attempt to abolish term limits, and critics say he is resorting to browbeating and smears for fear his candidates will lose.
"He has unleashed a wave of intimidation," Manuel Rosales, the opposition governor of Zulia state, told The Associated Press.
Rosales, who has a good chance of defeating the Chavez candidate for mayor of Maracaibo, Venezuela's second-largest city, said the socialist leader "wants to wipe out and criminalize Venezuela's opposition, or those who don't think like he does, to attempt a constitutional reform allowing him to remain in power."
During a fiery speech to supporters Tuesday, Chavez threatened to shut down any television stations that broadcast early election results, and said he has ordered secret police "to keep a close eye on" Rosales.

 

[Mongul]

At the high end of the scale, British polling institute Opinion Research Business in a report published on January 30 estimated the total number of civilian deaths at between 946,000 and 1.12 million.
Civilian death toll in Iraq may have surpassed 1 million

my source says otherwise

it says around 200 000 thousand are dead due to coalition actions.

Its the High end for a reason

 

[Mongul]

Ah, Mongol, the 600 billion has cost the American tax payers and filled the coffers of the likes of Haliburton and many other US companies. Did you not know about the "permanent" military bases they built? The million dead figure is everywhere if you just look. I'm not doing your homework for you because if I hand it to you you will still not believe your Yanks can do no wrong.

But that's OK, because you have a right to your delusions.

oh yeah and if the American Government did the actual reconstruction work then you would still be on the whole war profitteering buisness. You can't prove that these companies are deliberately siphoning money out of iraq and into their coffers in a manner that isn't consistent with their contracts. They are paid to do this because these Companies have the expertise and ability to do this job. It obtain the contract via a bidding system designed to ensure that the job is done as cheaply as possible.

Oh and i'm not a yank

 

[Cliffy]

Rosales, who has a good chance of defeating the Chavez candidate for mayor of Maracaibo, Venezuela's second-largest city, said the socialist leader "wants to wipe out and criminalize Venezuela's opposition, or those who don't think like he does, to attempt a constitutional reform allowing him to remain in power."

Holy Cow! Isn't that what Steve Harper just pulled with his prorogue of parliament. Does this mean we are now a socialist dictatorship? Hold the presses here, Mongul is on to something!

 

[Scott Free]

Except Harper is a neoconservative.

I wonder if his stimulus package includes financing gas chambers?

 

[MHz]

my source says otherwise

it says around 200 000 thousand are dead due to coalition actions.

Its the High end for a reason

This is from your link.

• News
• World news
• Iraq

What is the real death toll in Iraq?

The Americans learned one lesson from Vietnam: don't count the civilian dead. As a result, no one knows how many Iraqis have been killed in the five years since the invasion. Estimates put the toll at between 100,000 and one million, and now a bitter war of numbers is raging. Jonathan Steele and Suzanne Goldenberg report

The results range from just under 100,000 dead to well over a million. Inevitably, the issue has become a political football, with the Bush administration, the British government and other supporters of the US-led occupation seizing on the lowest estimates and opponents on the highest.

The first survey found at least 98,000 such deaths up to October 2004. The second survey, in the summer of 2006, interviewed a separate but also randomly chosen sample of 1,849 households and found an excess of 655,000 deaths up to June 2006, of which 601,027 were said to be from violence rather than natural causes. This amounts to 2.5% of Iraq's population, or more than 500 deaths a day since the invasion.


Finally, they point out that more recent data confirm their findings and even suggest a higher figure. The British polling firm Opinion Research Business (ORB) asked 1,720 Iraqi adults last summer if they had lost family members by violence since 2003; 16% had lost one, and 5% two. Using the 2005 census total of 4,050,597 households in Iraq, this suggests 1,220,580 deaths since the invasion. Accounting for a standard margin of error, ORB says, "We believe the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063."

Stay tuned for my reply to your other post

 

[Mongul]

Rosales, who has a good chance of defeating the Chavez candidate for mayor of Maracaibo, Venezuela's second-largest city, said the socialist leader "wants to wipe out and criminalize Venezuela's opposition, or those who don't think like he does, to attempt a constitutional reform allowing him to remain in power."

Holy Cow! Isn't that what Steve Harper just pulled with his prorogue of parliament. Does this mean we are now a socialist dictatorship? Hold the presses here, Mongul is on to something!

no it isn't not at all...

 

[Mongul]

This is from your link.

• News
• World news
• Iraq

What is the real death toll in Iraq?

The Americans learned one lesson from Vietnam: don't count the civilian dead. As a result, no one knows how many Iraqis have been killed in the five years since the invasion. Estimates put the toll at between 100,000 and one million, and now a bitter war of numbers is raging. Jonathan Steele and Suzanne Goldenberg report

The results range from just under 100,000 dead to well over a million. Inevitably, the issue has become a political football, with the Bush administration, the British government and other supporters of the US-led occupation seizing on the lowest estimates and opponents on the highest.

The first survey found at least 98,000 such deaths up to October 2004. The second survey, in the summer of 2006, interviewed a separate but also randomly chosen sample of 1,849 households and found an excess of 655,000 deaths up to June 2006, of which 601,027 were said to be from violence rather than natural causes. This amounts to 2.5% of Iraq's population, or more than 500 deaths a day since the invasion.


Finally, they point out that more recent data confirm their findings and even suggest a higher figure. The British polling firm Opinion Research Business (ORB) asked 1,720 Iraqi adults last summer if they had lost family members by violence since 2003; 16% had lost one, and 5% two. Using the 2005 census total of 4,050,597 households in Iraq, this suggests 1,220,580 deaths since the invasion. Accounting for a standard margin of error, ORB says, "We believe the range is a minimum of 733,158 to a maximum of 1,446,063."

Stay tuned for my reply to your other post

hmm they didn't specify what type of violence, whether it be sectarian or terrorist attacks, or violent crimes. I would wonder where these surveyers surveyed, since there are areas where violence is significantly higher than others

Stay tuned for my other replies

 

[MHz]

They are paid to do this because these Companies have the expertise and ability to do this job. It obtain the contract via a bidding system designed to ensure that the job is done as cheaply as possible.

Bull, they got the contracts because they were Americans. Don't you remember the selling of this war, join with us and you can have a piece of the 'reconstruction'. Five years on just what have they constructed other than military bases and a bunker called the 'green zone'.
No-Bid Contracts in Iraq News and Info

• WashingtonPost.com: Air Force Erred With No-Bid Iraq Contract, GAO Says (2005)
• NPR Audio: Pentagon to Change Bid Process for Iraq Contracts (2006)
• CBC.ca: 40% of military contracts non-competitive
• Live Search: No-bid military contracts

 

[MHz]

hmm they didn't specify what type of violence, whether it be sectarian or terrorist attacks, or violent crimes. I would wonder where these surveyers surveyed, since there are areas where violence is significantly higher than others

Stay tuned for my other replies

Lets go back even further then, US led sanctions against the civilian population, especially medicine for the children.

If you don't like the numbers why post the link?

 

[Cliffy]

Glourious Leader Chavez is a Strongman

As opposed to Harper who is just a wimpy victim ofthose traitorous coalitionists. Is that why he is hiding in his closet until the GG goes to haul him out at the end of January?

Of course you also believe that there are only 3000 US casualties in Iraq. Nobody seems to count the thousand s of seriously wounded amputees because of improved body armour.

 

[MHz]

Rosales, who has a good chance of defeating the Chavez candidate for mayor of Maracaibo, Venezuela's second-largest city, said the socialist leader "wants to wipe out and criminalize Venezuela's opposition, or those who don't think like he does, to attempt a constitutional reform allowing him to remain in power."

Holy Cow! Isn't that what Steve Harper just pulled with his prorogue of parliament. Does this mean we are now a socialist dictatorship? Hold the presses here, Mongul is on to something!

If you read some material not normally passed around you might find the Queen still owns us.

The people already voted on that, 2 terms was it as leader, he could still stay in the game as an elected official.

 

[MHz]

Glourious Leader Chavez is a Strongman

As opposed to Harper who is just a wimpy victim ofthose traitorous coalitionists. Is that why he is hiding in his closet until the GG goes to haul him out at the end of January?

Of course you also believe that there are only 3000 US casualties in Iraq. Nobody seems to count the thousand s of seriously wounded amputees because of improved body armour.

If they can get the seriously wounded out of the country before they die then they are not listed as a causality who died in Iraq. They only count the ones with combat wounds, suicides are not counted.
If you lie to start the war why would you tell the truth about what happens in the war?

 

[Mongul]

Bull, they got the contracts because they were Americans. Don't you remember the selling of this war, join with us and you can have a piece of the 'reconstruction'. Five years on just what have they constructed other than military bases and a bunker called the 'green zone'.
No-Bid Contracts in Iraq News and Info

• WashingtonPost.com: Air Force Erred With No-Bid Iraq Contract, GAO Says (2005)
• NPR Audio: Pentagon to Change Bid Process for Iraq Contracts (2006)
• CBC.ca: 40% of military contracts non-competitive
• Live Search: No-bid military contracts

why am i defending the iraq war? i don't even support it.

Look i understand that you think Iraq was an act of War-Profitteering, i disagree. So far all you have done is shown me how stupid the american government is and how wasteful they are with public money, What else is new? American companies get the contracts because its nation excuslive, Some of these companies deal with Certain military secrets that would be potentially dangerous in the hands of a foreign company. There are iraqi companies and UK companies that are operating reconstruction efforts

 

[MHz]

Glourious Leader Chavez is a Strongman

Corruption Investigation Continues Against Former Venezuelan Governor Rosales


Author:
James Suggett - Venezuelanalysis.com


Mérida, December 3rd, 2008 (Venezuelanalysis.com) -- Venezuelan National Assembly (AN) Legislator Mario Isea, the president of a special commission to investigate corruption charges against former Zulia State Governor Manuel Rosales, presented a new round of evidence to Venezuelan Attorney General Luisa Ortega Díaz on Tuesday.

According to Isea, Rosales is guilty of several infractions of the Law Against Corruption, including the channeling of public funds into private accounts, hoarding land and capital in the name of front persons, and complicity with fraud when he allegedly re-contracted with a local lottery after this lottery was proven to have committed fraud.

When Rosales appeared in a hearing before the National Assambly last Friday, Isea presented a long list of properties owned by Rosales and employees of his governorship in the United States and in Zulia state, and asked rhetorically how public functionaries could have acquired so much wealth.

Isea also played tape recordings of phone conversations in which Rosales allegedly distributes public funds to his allies.

Rosales said he has nothing to do with the property accumulated by his colleagues and staff and that Isea had violated the constitution by playing the recordings.

Rosales, who lost the presidential election to Hugo Chavez in 2006, was elected mayor of Maracaibo, the capital city of Zulia, in the regional and local elections on November 23rd.

The national investigation into corruption charges against Rosales began in late October, when President Hugo Chavez said Rosales, a known supporter of the April 2002 coup against Chávez, should be sent to prison for corruption, drug-trafficking, links to paramilitary death squads, and plotting to assassinate him.

Rosales is due to appear before federal prosecutors on December 11th.