Sounds like the conservatives on here think they are smarter and in a majority which sounds like the religious who think they have the only truth. Well, conservatives are not in a majority. Saying that other parties don't either is a straw man argument which indicates a weak position. And the majority of Canadians do support the other parties (all together). The last time I looked, 60% is majority. The conservatives only have the majority of seats because of flaws in the system. If you are going to insult the intelligence of 60% of Canadians, expect to be ridiculed as a bigot. From all I've heard from the right wing, they are selfish, self centered and have no social conscience. Not something that I find very attractive in a human being, which is why I could never support their party or their ideals.
The casual arming of the idiot cousins in the country directly south of Canada.
- Thread starter LordPongo2009
- Start date
Not really. Calgary was settled by Americans. The bouncer must have been a progeny.
J/K
Sorry, although Eagle and I don't see eye to eye from time to time, the above sounds like a personal insult and attack, which is unwarranted and has been reported.
If you want to call an organization a bunch of killers, a bunch of little kids & no decent up-bringing, etc.... fill your boots.... but it's a different situation when you directly target a member in these forums with such claims.
In my not very humble opinion, no good debate is a waste of time, you never learn anything if you don't discuss issues with people who disagree with you. Which of course leaves aside the question of whether or not THIS thread is a good debate...
I think the thread title's a little inflammatory, and clearly telegraphs a position and an attitude, not a proposition for debate. The proposition under debate really is whether being able to carry concealed firearms is a good thing or a bad thing. There are people on both sides of that here, and both sides can produce statistics and arguments to bolster their claims. I really have no position on this, because I don't believe gun laws are the real issue. I own guns, for instance, five of them in fact, all long guns, and I believe they're perfectly safe in my hands. Colpy owns guns, far more than I do, and far more dangerous ones than I do, but I think they're all perfectly safe in his hands, he's trained, smart, and thoughtful about them. I'd have no issue with either of us carrying concealed firearms. But the thought of the gas head across the street carrying a pistol gives me the willies.
I don't believe any convincing argument pro or con based on crime rates can be made. Crime is a far more complex socioeconomic phenomenon than can ever be explained by anything as simple as whether or not people have the right to carry concealed weapons, and it's fairly easy to produce statistics that support both sides. I've seen many such arguments and none of them impress me. It's just insufficient to point to the differences in crime rates and gun laws between the U.S. and Canada and argue that they constitute the whole explanation. I don't see how that can possibly be true, Canada and the U.S. are very different societies on many levels, not merely those two. Nor can I see how a correlation between the right to carry and a drop in crime rates proves anything useful, any statistician (including me, that's a subject I'm pretty well versed in) will tell you that correlation does not demonstrate causation.
In this context it also seems relevant to point out that every complex issue has an explanation that is simple, direct, plausible, and wrong, and I think explaining crime rates by referring to gun laws is an example of that.
Hey thanks for the link, thats alot of reading, i will pm you when im done reading it
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Me:"I took a course on statistic analysis last semester, and now I am not convinced that correlation equals causation"
Friend"it sounds like you learned something from that course"
Me"maybe"
Someone is drinking far too much Maple Syrup.
Our President you mean? How can he disarm anyone when he has continued two wars and is following Canada's lead in a third war? He's needs every gun in the field that he can muster.
Stung didn't it? It looks like it was VERY common there as they went from place to place and got the same treatment!
Pssssssssssssssst. We are in 4 wars right now. Canadian Navy are working hard in the Arabian gulf boarding and searching ships and protectiong their bilateral batlegroup. and Canadian Air Force air controllers monitoring the skies of Iraq.
NO, INSTEAD YOU SHOULD HAVE GOVERNMENT DETERMINE WHO CAN, AND WHO CAN NOT, OWN FIREARMS. THAT WAY, ONCE A TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT TAKES CONTROL, THEY WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO TO CONFISCATE ALL OF THE WEAPONS THAT THEY WISH.
How many people in the USA are killed each year by people that are legally entitled to own firearms? The number is miniscule.
The vast majority of deaths by firearms are done by people that do NOT have legal possession of any kind of firearm.
You Canadians, who's whole concept of government is shaped by those Loyalists who left the new USA (and most were NOT kicked out, they left voluntarily, including ALL of my own Loyalist ancestors). Those people were scared spitless of the people being armed, they had learned that such people could actually overthrown the powers that be. So, Canada developed with a fear of firearms, which still shows among its people today.
The United States very deliberately put the right of the People to possess firearms in their Constitution. You see, the British had attempted to confiscate the arms of the people, denying them the ability to hunt to feed their people, AND the ability to resist the oppression of the government. The people used those arms to fight against the British forces (including a LOT of Loyalists units, including the ones that 7 of my direct ancestors belonged to), and they successfully overthrew that government and established their own.
So, many of the Loyalists went to Canada. They were afraid of the people as a whole. It was only the "Upper Classes" that could be trusted, never the "mob" as they considered the common people. They were horrified that the common people had overthrown authority, and had actually taken the reins of self-government. So, they inculcated into the minds of most Canadians how bad firearms are, how their use and ownership must be controlled, etc.
Sadly, that attitude is still prevalent in Canada today. Only the "right" people are to be trusted. So, you keep long gun registries (which are an utter failure), and you attempt to control who can and who can not, have firearms.
And of couse, those that still support the concepts of the UPPER CLASS, still can not understand why just anyone in the USA that doesn't have a criminal record could possibly be allowed to have a firearm. God forbid, the unwashed just might rebel or something.
How many people in the USA are killed each year by people that are legally entitled to own firearms? The number is miniscule.
The vast majority of deaths by firearms are done by people that do NOT have legal possession of any kind of firearm.
You Canadians, who's whole concept of government is shaped by those Loyalists who left the new USA (and most were NOT kicked out, they left voluntarily, including ALL of my own Loyalist ancestors). Those people were scared spitless of the people being armed, they had learned that such people could actually overthrown the powers that be. So, Canada developed with a fear of firearms, which still shows among its people today.
The United States very deliberately put the right of the People to possess firearms in their Constitution. You see, the British had attempted to confiscate the arms of the people, denying them the ability to hunt to feed their people, AND the ability to resist the oppression of the government. The people used those arms to fight against the British forces (including a LOT of Loyalists units, including the ones that 7 of my direct ancestors belonged to), and they successfully overthrew that government and established their own.
So, many of the Loyalists went to Canada. They were afraid of the people as a whole. It was only the "Upper Classes" that could be trusted, never the "mob" as they considered the common people. They were horrified that the common people had overthrown authority, and had actually taken the reins of self-government. So, they inculcated into the minds of most Canadians how bad firearms are, how their use and ownership must be controlled, etc.
Sadly, that attitude is still prevalent in Canada today. Only the "right" people are to be trusted. So, you keep long gun registries (which are an utter failure), and you attempt to control who can and who can not, have firearms.
And of couse, those that still support the concepts of the UPPER CLASS, still can not understand why just anyone in the USA that doesn't have a criminal record could possibly be allowed to have a firearm. God forbid, the unwashed just might rebel or something.
I pose regularly with my Mac 10, my ice and ma bitches
Eagle is going to bitch slap you back to your commune, you filthy hippie LOL
LordPongo2009, discussion in this forum is fine, but on two occasions in this thread you have made personal attacks towards other members. Please refrain from any more attacks otherwise further action will be taken by the Mods.
Your country is in two out of three of those countries and actually leading the attack in Libya![/QUOTE]
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Good God, quite right, it seems we have elected a George Bush wannabe in Harper. I do not know what happened to the Peace Keeper status we kept for so many years. Now we finally have a war-mongering Conservative government just like you had for years. Oh and it has even tried to bankrupt us the way the Bush government did in US. That took some doing too, as the last Liberal government left us sitting pretty with a balanced budget. But hey, the Harper government managed it, inspite of having one of the best banking systems in the world. An astounding acheivement!!
Wanna bet though, they will not change the law re concealed weapons LOL I am sure making political assassinations as popular in Canada as it is in the US is not part of their agenda. See what we have learned from our neighbour south of the border.
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Good God, quite right, it seems we have elected a George Bush wannabe in Harper. I do not know what happened to the Peace Keeper status we kept for so many years. Now we finally have a war-mongering Conservative government just like you had for years. Oh and it has even tried to bankrupt us the way the Bush government did in US. That took some doing too, as the last Liberal government left us sitting pretty with a balanced budget. But hey, the Harper government managed it, inspite of having one of the best banking systems in the world. An astounding acheivement!!
Wanna bet though, they will not change the law re concealed weapons LOL I am sure making political assassinations as popular in Canada as it is in the US is not part of their agenda. See what we have learned from our neighbour south of the border.
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[/QUOTE]
1. We have not been Peace Keepers for decades, that is a fallacy, a fantasy, a delusion passed off by the scum of the Liberal Party who wanted to hide under the wing of the USA while simultaneously kicking Uncle Sam in the kneecaps and gutting our military, thus denigrating the nation and destroying the place of respect we used to hold in the world. Thank you Mr. Trudeau, et al.
2. To keep the peace, there must be a peace to keep. THINK man.
3. The Liberals used the GST left them by Brian Mulrooney, the tax they promised to axe, to defeat the deficit....and kudos to them, but they lied.
4. Harper lowered the GST, as he promised.
5. The Liberals did NOT have a GLOBAL financial collapse to deal with.
6. The outrageous stimulus package was put in place at the demand of, and with the votes of, the Liberal Party. It was a minority gov't, remember???
7. Nobody has said Harper will dump the Firearms Act, unfortunately.....but he will kill the long gun registry.
8. There are 88 countries in the world with murder rates worse than that in the United States. Wanna talk about how manmy of them have strict gun control?????
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But I don't recall them holding a gun to Harper's head.
It was passed by Parliament together, it wasn't imposed by the Liberals without the Conservatives agreeing to it.
1. We have not been Peace Keepers for decades, that is a fallacy, a fantasy, a delusion passed off by the scum of the Liberal Party who wanted to hide under the wing of the USA while simultaneously kicking Uncle Sam in the kneecaps and gutting our military, thus denigrating the nation and destroying the place of respect we used to hold in the world. Thank you Mr. Trudeau, et al.
2. To keep the peace, there must be a peace to keep. THINK man.
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Actually, until we got involved in non-peace keeping activities, we never needed to hide!! The scum Liberal Party, as you call them along with Canadians as a whole, do not feel the need to control the world in order to be safe and we do consider foreign countries have the right to self determination.
3. The Liberals used the GST left them by Brian Mulrooney, the tax they promised to axe, to defeat the deficit....and kudos to them, but they lied.
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So you are saying that the Liberals got us out of the debt left by Mulrooney through the GST?? So what has happened since?? This means that Harper, is using all by the GST tax, and still managing to sink us way deep back in debt. Geez, you think that by offering the sop of a 1% reduction in the GST makes this a great deal?? Glad you are not looking after my finances. Oh and the finnegling he is doing on the cost of living stats, is disgraceful.
4. Harper lowered the GST, as he promised.
Yes, by so little as to not even be noticed except by those Conservatives who do not even seem to be aware they are nbeing hoodwinked.
5. The Liberals did NOT have a GLOBAL financial collapse to deal with.
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You do know, don't you that Global financial collapse was brought on by the Bush government who felt the world's bank's pockets had no bottom and they could live high wide and handsome without consequence?? You cannot spende borrowed money indefinitely, and remain solvent. And you had better hope the Harper government has some inkling of this.
6. The outrageous stimulus package was put in place at the demand of, and with the votes of, the Liberal Party. It was a minority gov't, remember???
So, a stimulus package that gives to the tax payers is bad but the tax reduction given to the rich of our country is good?? If you believe those tax reductions have created even one job, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
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7. Nobody has said Harper will dump the Firearms Act, unfortunately.....but he will kill the long gun registry.
And the deaths by fire arms in this country will rise.
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8. There are 88 countries in the world with murder rates worse than that in the United States. Wanna talk about how manmy of them have strict gun control?????
No there are not!! Wikipedia is out of date. As previously stated, there are three ahead of the US and I named them. 2010 - they had 9,936 murders by firearms......4th highest in the world. I suspect the homicide rate quoted by Wikipedia takes in all forms of murder.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]
According to my ancestors all of you have foreign sounding names.
When you live in a country of immigrants how do you define foreign sounding. Granted Smith, Jones, Churchhill do not roll off the tongue with ease.
b.c.: Bring cash
No. Our "peacekeeping" was not as peaceful as the urban legend so many like to believe. Just talk to soldiers who were in the Balkans or Somalia.
No, what happened is that Mulroney put the tools into place that allowed the economy to grow and eliminate the deficit, tools the Liberals decried and promised to do away with until about 10 seconds after they assumed power. And it was Trudeau's debt as much, if not more than it was ever Mulroney's... it was created by P.E.T., not Lyin' Brian.
Actually the collapse was decades in the making. Yes, Bush could have taken steps and avoided it, but so could have Clinton and probably Bush Sr and Ronnie Raygun. As for Canada's stimulus, if the Liberals and NDP had their way, it would have been much higher, thus the deficit would be much higher as well.
The long gun registry has done nothing to stop the murder rate from rising. It was a knee-jerk reaction by Alan Rock to an act perpetrated by a madman in Montreal. The same type of action happened 10-15 years later, with the registry in place, again in Montreal. Rock's answer was not an answer, just a waste of time and money that could have been better spent on fighting real crimes, instead of being fixated with a weapon that has been down in the #5-6 range for weapons of choice by murderers, for decades.
And why shouldn't it? Does death by stabbing or blunt trauma render one less dead than a shooting?
Yes......it does.....of course........
That is the only stat that counts......unless of course you believe a person is LESS dead if they are beaten to death or stabbed to death...........
(sigh) THINK Man!
Let's make it simple for you.
If there are lots and lots of guns and the murder rate is LOWER than in 88 countries, most of which have extremely tough gun control................then the availability of guns has little to do with the murder rate.......
In fact, the murder rate in the USA in some of the areas with the most guns are lower than the rate in Canada......
go read the first of the thread: ."Gun Control is Completely Useless"
educate yourself.....
Like Somalia? Canadian troops are deployed all over the world and have been for quite some time now. You sound pretty hypocritical to me.