Palestinian - Why Mahmoud Abbas’s U.N. statehood bid is great for Israel -- and the U

earth_as_one

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Anyone that cannot understand that Israel and the Arabs have a lot of emotional hatred- and problems to solve would think they have Mission Impossible if they used most of this thread upon which to base a decision on can they or can't they reach a deal.

Both sides have committed many atrocities. No amount of individual or collective punishment can undue what's been done... Before Palestinians can get a fair deal, the truth must be known.

Which is why I support a truth and reconciliation. For examples those quotes I referenced here came from Israeli leaders:

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...tinian-why-mahmoud-abbas-s-3.html#post1682052

As far as I'm concerned if someone speaks the truth in a restorative justice commission, they should get immunity from further prosecution. A get out of jail free card so to speak. In other words motivation to tell the truth. You get caught in a lie or an omission about a crime, you do the time.


A good video.

But both sides provoked each other from time to time. However Israel was the bigger more threatening force.

During 1965-7, Israel's armed forces staged numerous provocations along the Israeli-Syrian border area.[34] This escalation led the Syrians and the Soviets to believe Israel was planning to overthrow the Syrian regime using military force.[34] On April 7, 1967, a serious incident broke out between Israel and Syria over a cultivation problem within the demilitarized zone. Israel took military action against Syria, and eventually both sides employed artillery, tanks, and mortars.[35] During this clash Israeli airstrikes were launched a few miles from Damascus. Israel bombed both Syrian border villages, and Syrian military targets, and had refused a cease-fire proposal by the Chairman of Mixed Armistice Commission. After several hours the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization managed to arrange a cease-fire. Following this confrontation Arab governments pledged their support to Syria, but also complained that the Jordanian air force had done nothing to help Syrian planes even when they were shot down in Jordanian airspace.[36]
wiki

Israel faced a weaker divided enemy. While their forces were smaller they were better armed, trained and coordinated. Israel's clandestine development of the Sampson option probably gave Israel's military planners the confidence they needed to provoke a war. When that didn't happen, they launched a surprise attack.

Most likely Israel had two crude bombs ready for use.
Israel's Nuclear Weapons

The most likely scenario is that Israel war planners were 98% certain they could win a short war on their own. But if events went poorly they could use crude nukes and threaten more to come, getting a ceasefire.

Fer Christs sake there is enough blood, dead, wounded, permanently scarred emotionally to go around. WTF is the problem here-
I doubt few - very few- on this Forum has had anyone close or known to them killed in the incessant wars, bombings terror reprisals- attacks -
So if people here cannot have a some what reasonable discussion - How can you expect the Israelis and PLO to talk.
Lets get off the FFn soapbox here.

This is about making peace. Not assigning blame.

If anyone wants to assign blame for this, that or FFn whatever START your own thread.

Here are some points for discussion
Hamas- Those that want to make a deal

Mashaal: Prepared for peace without blood, weapons - Israel News, Ynetnews

Top Hamas leader to make first visit to Gaza, following successful UN statehood vote | Israel & Middle East | World | News | National Post

In CNN interview professing a desire for peace, Mashaal asks, 'How can I accept Israel? They have occupied my land' | The Times of Israel

You first post reveals that Hamas's would sign an agreement recognizing Israel at the 1967 borders... more or less. But they won't compromise on the right of return to the area (Palestine) and the rights of Muslims to live, worship and travel to Jerusalem. Part of Jerusalem must be part of Palestine.

Israel's current rulers are determined to grab as much of the West Bank as possible. So they have no interest in peace while they continue to gobble up most of the West Bank and turn Jerusalem into a place where only Jews can live legally and everyone else has to get permission from Israel to visit holy sites... which will eventually be confiscated or destroyed and replaced with Jewish religious sites. I'm convinced that's the eventual fate of The Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque. Zionists prize that Real Estate above all else and eventually they will destroy these structures. (The Dome is one of the earliest Muslim religious structures and holiest sites).

I'd support building a holy temple on this site... provided it did not replace or harm the existing structures. Maybe a temple of glass?

But the temple is just a trophy and ultimately military commercialism cannot will not lead to peace.

The ugly truth is that the cause of violence and war here is ethnic cleansing. While Palestinians lack freedom and justice, Israelis won't have peace. Its that simple.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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Fer Christs sake there is enough blood, dead, wounded, permanently scarred emotionally to go around. WTF is the problem here-
I doubt few - very few- on this Forum has had anyone close or known to them killed in the incessant wars, bombings terror reprisals- attacks -
So if people here cannot have a some what reasonable discussion - How can you expect the Israelis and PLO to talk.
Lets get off the FFn soapbox here.

This is about making peace. Not assigning blame.

If anyone wants to assign blame for this, that or FFn whatever START your own thread.

Here are some points for discussion
Hamas- Those that want to make a deal

Mashaal: Prepared for peace without blood, weapons - Israel News, Ynetnews

Top Hamas leader to make first visit to Gaza, following successful UN statehood vote | Israel & Middle East | World | News | National Post

In CNN interview professing a desire for peace, Mashaal asks, 'How can I accept Israel? They have occupied my land' | The Times of Israel
No deal will ever be made and stand as long as various muslim leaders are publicly demanding that Israel be wiped off the map and Jews exterminated.
 

earth_as_one

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I'm sure you can point to several examples, but most Muslims including leaders and common people want peace.

Some like Muslim leaders like former Egyptian Dictator Mubarak demonstrated a willingness to look the other way, ignoring the explosions and screams on the other side of the wall while helping Israel strangle Gaza for a price... However I doubt bribing a brutal ruthless dictator will lead to a fair or just peace.

Only truth, freedom and justice leads to a fair and just peace.
 

taxslave

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I'm sure you can point to several examples, but most Muslims including leaders and common people want peace.

Some like Muslim leaders like former Egyptian Dictator Mubarak demonstrated a willingness to look the other way, ignoring the explosions and screams on the other side of the wall while helping Israel strangle Gaza for a price... However I doubt bribing a brutal ruthless dictator will lead to a fair or just peace.

Only truth, freedom and justice leads to a fair and just peace.

You might mention that to all your terrorist buddies before they lob any more bombs into Israel.
 

earth_as_one

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I don't support one side's war criminals like you. I oppose both sides lobbing bombs at each other. I support knowing the truth, freedom and justice for civilians on both sides.

That fact that you believe insulting snipes promote intelligent debate says far more about you than it does about me.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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I don't support one side's war criminals like you. I oppose both sides lobbing bombs at each other. I support knowing the truth, freedom and justice for civilians on both sides.

That fact that you believe insulting snipes promote intelligent debate says far more about you than it does about me.
Why even bite at the bait, with post like this he is either a full time troll or he belongs in jail himself?

OK I'll donate a box of lead pills.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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I don't support one side's war criminals like you. I oppose both sides lobbing bombs at each other. I support knowing the truth, freedom and justice for civilians on both sides.

That fact that you believe insulting snipes promote intelligent debate says far more about you than it does about me.
I'm sure that when you look in your magic mirror...that you see a fair minded individual;-)

I hate to burst your bubble....but....you're the only one who sees that...

Everyone is out of step but you and Goreabssesed heh????

And...For the record.....we all know what you support:roll:
 

MHz

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Since 1967, Israel has attempted to cement its occupation of the territories while evading international culpability. The Palestinians’ successful statehood bid may change that, but it is far from a sure thing.

Haaretz
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s decision to build more housing units in the settlements, coming hot on the heels of the United Nations General Assembly’s declaration of Palestine as a non-member observer state, could put Israel on a collision course with the International Criminal Court in The Hague.
Following the UN’s decision last Thursday, Palestine may contact the court’s prosecutor once again, asking for a hearing on the crimes that are being committed in its territory. The court’s prosecutor may well rule that in light of Palestine’s recognition as a state, the court has authority to hear the case.
If Palestine should complain to the court, Article 8(2)(b)(viii) of the court’s statute may be at the center of the case. This article states, in part: “The transfer, directly or indirectly, by an occupying power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies” is a war crime.
This statute is the continuation of a rule in the Fourth Geneva Convention. Israel’s past claims that the rule did not apply in the territories may be rejected: The International Court of Justice, also in The Hague, settles legal disputes between countries and gives advisory opinions. When this court gave its advisory opinion over the separation barrier, it ruled that contrary to Israel’s position, the Fourth Geneva Convention applied in the territories, including the prohibition against building settlements in occupied territory. This ruling has even greater force now that Palestine has been recognized as a state.
Israel’s claim that the provision applies only to the forced transfer of a population from an occupying country to the occupied territories, and not to a voluntary move, is likely to be rejected both in light of Israel’s large investment in the settlements and the active establishment of new settlements, and also because the court’s statute includes the phrase “direct or indirect” in its prohibition against such a transfer.


Following UN vote on Palestine, Israel may now find itself at The Hague « The Ugly Truth
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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I understand the current Israeli government has approved over 3000 new homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. As well, they will be withholding $200 000 0000 in taxes from the Palestinian Authority.

Help me out here, we Canadians are on the right side of history on this one, aren't we?

Sign me,
Troubled
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I understand the current Israeli government has approved over 3000 new homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. As well, they will be withholding $200 000 0000 in taxes from the Palestinian Authority.

Help me out here, we Canadians are on the right side of history on this one, aren't we?

Sign me,
Troubled

The development is years away if it ever begins. The US - EU would put considerable pressure on Israel regarding this.
As to the money - they have done it before- The Govt stated they would do this if the PA went ahead at the UN- There is an election going on. Pure politics.

I'm sure you can point to several examples, but most Muslims including leaders and common people want peace.

Some like Muslim leaders like former Egyptian Dictator Mubarak demonstrated a willingness to look the other way, ignoring the explosions and screams on the other side of the wall while helping Israel strangle Gaza for a price... However I doubt bribing a brutal ruthless dictator will lead to a fair or just peace.

Only truth, freedom and justice leads to a fair and just peace.

At time I think you should have written for Pravda. And yes I know what the English translation is.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Elections don't right bad policy.

As I mentioned it has happened before - The Israelis stated they would withhold funding- they have followed thru on what they stated-- they can reinstate funding and back payments later- which is what has happened in the past.

Did you think that Israel would not follow thru?
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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I'm sure that when you look in your magic mirror...that you see a fair minded individual;-)

I hate to burst your bubble....but....you're the only one who sees that...

Everyone is out of step but you and Goreabssesed heh????

And...For the record.....we all know what you support:roll:

You should worry about your own record, keeping Nuremberg in mind DaComa. I wonder if you just follow orders.
 

MHz

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Did you think that Israel would not follow thru?
That isn't really funding when it is their own money, it called piracy. Israel whines when cottage-cheese is scarce, imagine what they would do if funding was cut off for as long as Gaza has has Israel in full control f their bank accounts, including Arafat's widow escaping to France with a large amount of their money. That is the way their collective works and not to Israel's credit.