Palestinian - Why Mahmoud Abbas’s U.N. statehood bid is great for Israel -- and the U
- Thread starter Goober
- Start date
Just like any govt dept. In order to keep your budget high in the next fiscal year you have to blow everything you have in the current fiscal year unless it's snow removal which surpluses are is carried over on top of a standard budget allotment. You don't want to be in the red when it comes to snow removal.
Only if you think we gave the Indian a fair deal over the last 100 years. It's collective punishment, a war crime here as well as over there. That little detail doesn't seem to bother anybody and more than white-assed Canadian has said they should all be killed off.
Petros, Still think we are given anything close to the facts, even today?
http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html
The Vatican calls for full sovereignty for Palestine.
CNS STORY: Vatican praises new UN status for Palestine, urges full sovereignty
CNS STORY: Vatican praises new UN status for Palestine, urges full sovereignty
Just make sure the RCC doesn't plan in opening up any 'rehabilitation schools' for the children citizens of the West Bank and Gaza.
So it doesn't matter what the consequences are for whose money it is, the only thing that holds any meaning is Israel's ability to repeat what they had full control of for 40 years and make it appear that they are still the boss of all Palestinians no matter what the UN members say.
The Jews caused a boycott of German manufactured goods because Germany was bucking the debt to the banks, Jewish banks, and Germany was almost brought to her 'economic knees'. Without America's full (blind) support their economy and military would crumble under it's own weight, despite the bankers. If they could really be independent they would have settled for all of Madagascar and just waited there for God to make the place ready for their one and only prophecies return.
Just how does the 'myth version' of that work anyway, you can be anypalce on the planet and you think about being in the promised land and 'poof, there you are face - to -face with God and explaining to Him just what is going to get done in the next phase?
Have you always avoided making a morality judgments when Israel does acts like this and reserve those condemnations for any Gentile as it can always be done as a blanket one and the facts be damned? That's a new side of you that I hadn't noticed before, so it is either new or you just have it down to a fine art. It won't take long to see which way it really is.
The Jews caused a boycott of German manufactured goods because Germany was bucking the debt to the banks, Jewish banks, and Germany was almost brought to her 'economic knees'. Without America's full (blind) support their economy and military would crumble under it's own weight, despite the bankers. If they could really be independent they would have settled for all of Madagascar and just waited there for God to make the place ready for their one and only prophecies return.
Just how does the 'myth version' of that work anyway, you can be anypalce on the planet and you think about being in the promised land and 'poof, there you are face - to -face with God and explaining to Him just what is going to get done in the next phase?
Have you always avoided making a morality judgments when Israel does acts like this and reserve those condemnations for any Gentile as it can always be done as a blanket one and the facts be damned? That's a new side of you that I hadn't noticed before, so it is either new or you just have it down to a fine art. It won't take long to see which way it really is.
Let your conscience guide you. Try not to let fear and hate propaganda determine your opinion. Put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian and an Israeli civilian and consider that if you were treated as they've been treated, would you believe you were treated fairly or justly?
How would you feel if you were a Palestinian refugee who was forcibly removed from their home, so it could be demolished to make way for a Jewish only colony? How would you feel if you were Israeli and Jewish, living in one of those new homes for Jews only?
Israel collects taxes on all commerce entering or leaving Palestinian territories. That tax money is supposed to pay the salaries of Palestinian civil servants, including police, fireman, teachers, doctors... Tens of thousands of Palestinians aren't getting paid right now. They have families with hungry children and bills to pay. The taxes Israel collects and then withholds has a ripple affect across the entire Palestinian economy. FYI: Israel uses this money like a loan to finance Jewish only colony building in the West Bank.
If you were a Palestinian doctor, how would you feel knowing that you didn't get a pay check so that Israel could finance building the wall that keeps you imprisoned, demolish your neighbor's homes (one day yours too) and build Jewish only homes on what used to be a Palestinian village?
Taxation without representation isn't just unfair, its also one of the main causes of the American revolution.
Also Goober is wrong. Israel has never paid back all the money they've collected from Palestinians in the form of taxes. They still owe money to the PA going back as far as 2006, when Hamas won democratic elections:
Hamas and the Shrinking PA Budget - Council on Foreign Relations
IMO, Canada is on the wrong side of history. Not that long ago Canada's leaders were on the wrong side of history regarding Jews just like we are now regarding Palestinians:
The MS St. Louis was a German ocean liner most notable for a single voyage in 1939, in which her captain, Gustav Schröder, tried to find homes for 937 German Jewish refugees after they were denied entry to Cuba, the United States and Canada, until finally accepted to various countries of Europe. Historians have estimated that, after their return to Europe, approximately a quarter of the ship's passengers died in Concentration Camps.
MS St. Louis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Canada has made a clear statement in support of never ending negotiations which allow Israel a free hand to build Jewish only colonies over the final remnants of land supposedly reserved for a future Palestinian state.
Apparently what really pisses off our government is when Palestinians go to the UN and ask for their fundamental human rights. The nerve of those uppity Palestinians. Don't they know their station in life? They are destined to live out their lives in cruel subservience to their Zionist overlords.
Can anyone quote any Harper government representative condemning Israel's decision to accelerate their ethnic cleansing in violation of international laws? As far as I can determine, not a single member of the Harper government has ever spoken up in support of Palestinian Freedom and Justice or condemned a single cruelty or injustice suffered by Palestinians. Instead they've expressed unshakable support for every Israeli cruelty and injustice against the Palestinian people and made historically incorrect statements regarding Palestine based on discredited old pro-Israel propaganda:
Baird condemns Israel's critics in speech at Jewish gala - Politics - CBC News
Jews should not trust politicians who selll themselves to the highest bidder, like Baird was doing at that fundraiser. Politicians which sell themselves to the highest bidder can switch allegiances as quickly the next highest bid. For a price they can quickly become as antisemitic as they are currently pro-Zionist. Only politicians who base their policy on a respect for fundamental human rights can be trusted to ensure that Jews never again face institutionalized discrimination and oppression.
The rest of the world must have a pretty low opinion of Canadians right now.
You claim you want debate, but you clearly don't. If you did, you wouldn't make snide insulting remarks.
You are entitled to your opinion, which IMO seeks to justify the unjustifiable. Good luck with that. You seem to have a problem accepting the obvious truth that awarding and withdrawing rights based on religion and race is wrong even when Israelis do these things. IMO, its always been wrong. Its wrong now and it was wrong when the Nazis did it in the 1930's and 40's. If you truly believe in freedom and justice, then you cannot support Palestinian injustice and oppression, no matter how sympathetic you are to historical Jewish suffering.
Historical injustice, oppression and cruelty suffered by one group of people cannot be remedied by subjecting another group of people to injustice, oppression and cruelty. The cycle of injustice, oppression and cruelty can only be broken by truth, freedom and justice.
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Another fine example of how they prefer to do things, guess it explains why no spare parts get sent into fix the bombed power generators. Let me guess Gaza doesn't get a cut rate on the power while Israel can demand (and get) a cut rate on the gas they were getting from Egypt.
(in part)
* Expansion plan draws criticism from U.S. and Europe
* Move seen as retaliation for Palestinian U.N. bid
* Netanyahu's cabinet formally rejects U.N. vote
By Maayan Lubell
JERUSALEM, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday brushed off world condemnation of Israel's plans to expand Jewish settlements after the Palestinians won de facto U.N. recognition of statehood.
"We will carry on building in Jerusalem and in all the places that are on the map of Israel's strategic interests," a defiant Netanyahu said at the weekly cabinet meeting.
In another blow to the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank, Israel also announced it was withholding Palestinian tax revenues this month worth about $100 million because of a $200 million PA debt to the Israeli Electric Corporation.
Let me guess that mentioned map is in the same drawer as the full list of banned items. Want to bet it matches the map posted showing what area the Jews wanted the Rothschild to get for them originally and want to bet that land grab and deportation of people isn't over?
(in part)
* Expansion plan draws criticism from U.S. and Europe
* Move seen as retaliation for Palestinian U.N. bid
* Netanyahu's cabinet formally rejects U.N. vote
By Maayan Lubell
JERUSALEM, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday brushed off world condemnation of Israel's plans to expand Jewish settlements after the Palestinians won de facto U.N. recognition of statehood.
"We will carry on building in Jerusalem and in all the places that are on the map of Israel's strategic interests," a defiant Netanyahu said at the weekly cabinet meeting.
In another blow to the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank, Israel also announced it was withholding Palestinian tax revenues this month worth about $100 million because of a $200 million PA debt to the Israeli Electric Corporation.
Let me guess that mentioned map is in the same drawer as the full list of banned items. Want to bet it matches the map posted showing what area the Jews wanted the Rothschild to get for them originally and want to bet that land grab and deportation of people isn't over?
I agree; it isn't right. Neither is it right for the Canadian government to give unqualified support to the Israelis. Our actions do not even hint at nuance.
We should pass a bill that puts every decision made about a foreign nation as a referendum since the things passed are said to speak for all Canadians and in the dark a vote might go a different way than what is said in public because of the persecution that comes with any condemnation of Israel.
I have no problem with debate- Note that I have brought forth points for discussion.
Note that you are still on the cut- paste-diatribe on Israel – that limits discussion.
Your forgot to include your views on the morality (and legality) of the actions taken against. Got some rate data or past payment history to back up their claims or is your news statement the whole of your input because your last post didn't contain anything that was about the event.
Canada took the agreement made in Oslo as the rules for attaining a 2 State solution-
It is Israel that has to agree to that. We can wish in one hand…………………. But they have the cards.
They will have to close some settlements.
Now are they going to listen to a country that has been against them for years or one that has shown support.
Check it out- I am rather busy now. I am trying to be evenhanded. Others should try that as well.
Yes I noticed that you brought forward points for discussion. I even referenced them in post 101 in this thread. But you seem only interested in making snide remarks and false claims about me.
For example, my last post was not a cut and paste diatribe. It was a suggestion for people to let their conscience guide their opinion regarding this conflict. You should read it.
Every Israeli colony on occupied Palestinian territory is an example illegal ethnic cleansing. Not some, but every one. Every single Israeli citizen living in the West Bank does so in violation of international laws.
That's the position of the UNSC
S/RES/465 (1980) of 1 March 1980
and the International Court of Justice:
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1677.pdf
Officially its Canada's position too, although you wouldn't know it from the Harper government's silence on the topic.
Canadian Policy on Key Issues in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Silence = tacit approval
BTW, I acknowledge that you are trying to be even handed. You aren't even handed yet, but at least your recent posts indicate a willingness to consider more than just the Israeli narrative. Like I said in my last post... follow your conscience.
As to funding- When funds could have been diverted to Hamas – what would you expect- Other reasons it was witheld vary.
As I stated some of the settlements will close- not all- wait and see. The PA and the Israelis have settled the land issue to approx 96 %- Abbas has renounced the right of return – it would not be accepted by Israel-
So now it is Jerusalem. Where will it be divided.
Well I hoped for better than this:
The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair
Hamas won the election fair and square. Israel and the US should have dealt with Hamas directly.
Zionist forces have recognized the advantage of "divide and conquer" since at least 1947. In 2006 they created the conditions for civil war by arming the democratically disposed dictator.
No one should ahve the power to control the lives of others. Cut off their salaries and access to food and you get tunnels, not obedience nor submission. That's human nature.
I support universal freedom and justice.
Where do you stand?
I'm willing to debate whether Palestinians have the same freedom and justice as you and I.
Personally I support a one state solution. over time.... with full right of return. Let Israelstine pr Palisreal be inclusive, free and fair.
After a restorative justice process leading to peace. Tell the truth, you get amnesty. Tell a lie you proceed to a criminal justice system.
Until then an arms embargo to all belligerents in the Holy Lands and enforced neutrality. In other words, its not an act of war for any country to attack a weapon convoys within a certain radius of the holylands, enforced by a UN peacekeeping force.
IMO, the walls, bombs and violence has turned what should be the world's most popular tourist destination into a war zone and the victims are the innocent people on both sides.
The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair
Hamas won the election fair and square. Israel and the US should have dealt with Hamas directly.
Zionist forces have recognized the advantage of "divide and conquer" since at least 1947. In 2006 they created the conditions for civil war by arming the democratically disposed dictator.
No one should ahve the power to control the lives of others. Cut off their salaries and access to food and you get tunnels, not obedience nor submission. That's human nature.
I support universal freedom and justice.
Where do you stand?
I'm willing to debate whether Palestinians have the same freedom and justice as you and I.
Personally I support a one state solution. over time.... with full right of return. Let Israelstine pr Palisreal be inclusive, free and fair.
After a restorative justice process leading to peace. Tell the truth, you get amnesty. Tell a lie you proceed to a criminal justice system.
Until then an arms embargo to all belligerents in the Holy Lands and enforced neutrality. In other words, its not an act of war for any country to attack a weapon convoys within a certain radius of the holylands, enforced by a UN peacekeeping force.
IMO, the walls, bombs and violence has turned what should be the world's most popular tourist destination into a war zone and the victims are the innocent people on both sides.
Using the term Zionist shows where your opinion rests.
That is the issue when one was faced with suicide bombings, rockets, attacks against and with civilians as the primary target.
No you do not- You use the phrase enough but I do not give it any credibility. I do not demonize all Arabs- You demonize all Jews
For a fair settling of the issues that the Palestinians and Israel have.
And we know that means the extinction of the Jewish State.
Again you lose credibility when you stated support for a 2 State solution. That Israel had the right to exist as a State. Which you had earlier agree to.
But I am willing to debate.
Netanyahu is destroying hope for a 2-state solution in the Middle East | Full Comment | National Post
Israel discusses another 1,600 settlement units; U.S. offers harsh criticism to - The Globe and Mail
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