Canada spending $850 million per year to settle immigrants, stop the madness

[DurkaDurka]

There are millions of Mexicans and Latin Americans who will do anything to get to the USA to work and they get nothing from the govt. Why can't we get some of those people to come here?

I always thought Chinese immigrants rarely depended on the govt for assistance and find work quickly provided they have the community support of places like Vancouver, Toronto etc.

 

[petros]

Quote: Originally Posted by Durry

Some like to contribute, others expect to be looked after.

Only two percent of our military are visible minority, why?

Who contributes more to the military? Urbanites or Rural?
​

How immigrants come to Canada because of not being forced to kill by being forced into military?

 

[Corduroy]

I always thought Chinese immigrants rarely depended on the govt for assistance and find work quickly provided they have the community support of places like Vancouver, Toronto etc.

Anecdotally, I would say that Chinese immigrants are by far the most quickly integrated of non-Western immigrants. It's the community support in where they settle and the fact that many Chinese immigrants are well-off to begin with. I also think that Chinese and Western societies are more compatible culturally, but that's only a perception.


This is kind of like the Israel/Palestine debate. I actually believe immigration needs drastic reform. I think, for example, that the family class should be restricted to spouses and dependant children only. As a socialist I find the system of essentially importing foreigners for cheap menial labour exploitative. Many of the government's economic arguments for immigration is strictly to fuel capitalist exploitation where native born Canadians refuse to be exploited. But because the anti-immigration crowd here, like the anti-Israel crowd, is so full of ****, one spends too much time arguing against them rather than actually making logical arguments for restricting immigration (or in the Israel/Palestine debate, defending the rights of Palestinians)

 

[petros]

It was racisit policies of our govt that wouldn't alllow more than one Chinese family per town (usually CPR labourers who saved every penny they earned) and opened restaurants and grocery stores.

Funny thing is, Asian immigrants are now coming and buying out the old timers and keeping those little restaurants and stores going and nobody really gives a ****.. They are glad to see new blood in their towns keeping business open.

 

[earth_as_one]

...This is kind of like the Israel/Palestine debate. I actually believe immigration needs drastic reform. I think, for example, that the family class should be restricted to spouses and dependant children only. As a socialist I find the system of essentially importing foreigners for cheap menial labour exploitative. Many of the government's economic arguments for immigration is strictly to fuel capitalist exploitation where native born Canadians refuse to be exploited. But because the anti-immigration crowd here, like the anti-Israel crowd, is so full of ****, one spends too much time arguing against them rather than actually making logical arguments for restricting immigration (or in the Israel/Palestine debate, defending the rights of Palestinians)

Strange, because I suspect some anti-Immigrant people are really bigots and share similar racist qualities with many Israeli apologists who believe that some people are God's Chosen people and as a result have a right to treat the people God didn't choose badly based on skin color and/or religion.

 

[mentalfloss]

Not all 33 million Canadians are taxpayers, so it's a bit higher, say, $40. I'd like my money back.

For something that is possibly a huge boon for the economy, $40 is a worthy investment.

 

[Corduroy]

Strange, because I suspect some anti-Immigrant people are really bigots and share similar racist qualities with many Israeli apologists who believe that some people are God's Chosen people and as a result have a right to treat the people God didn't choose badly because of their based on skin color and/or religion.

The similarity was not the racism, but the fact that they are full of ****.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I always thought Chinese immigrants rarely depended on the govt for assistance and find work quickly provided they have the community support of places like Vancouver, Toronto etc.

We can assume many of them don't find jobs as immigrants decades ago, who were mostly from Europe, got nothing. Like my dad.

According to the Vancouver Sun today, July 20/11, page B2, no link yet, immigration numbers are thus:

30% - economic immigrants, who got into Canada based on skills or a job offer
56% - of of immigrants are spouses, or family class
14% - refugees (not immigrants, the article discusses the number of newcomers to the country)

So over half the immigrants that come here, are based on family connections, not whether they have the skills to work here. So they need settlement money to adjust, and some get it forever being seniors. If we just let in economic migrants and made them marry Canadians, we wouldn't have ethnic cities and they would become Canadians faster. The new political immigrant reality requires a lot of taxpayer cash. I disagree with the current policy. Time to put multiculturalism on a tight budget.

 

[taxslave]

A summary from wikipedia, but you can follow their links to government reports and studies:

>>There is no consensus on the net impact of immigration to government finances. A 1990 study found that an average immigrant household paid $22,528 in all forms of taxes and on average each household directly consumed $10,558 in government services. By contrast an average native Canadian household paid $20,259 in tax and consumed $10,102 dollars in services. Across the country this means that immigrant households contributed $2.6 billion more than their share to the public purse.[60] A 1996 study found that over a lifetime a typical immigrant family will pay some forty thousand dollars more to the treasury than they will consume in services.[61] Explanations for this include that immigrant households tend to be larger, and have more wage earners, increasing taxes. Newcomers are also less likely to make use of many social services. Immigrants are less likely than native Canadians to receive employment insurance, social assistance, and subsidized housing.[62] Immigrants are also much less likely to become homeless or suffer from mental illness.[63] Recent immigrants are also less likely to make use of subsidized housing than native Canadians of the same income level. In 2004 22.5% of low-income native Canadians lived in subsidized housing, but only 20.4% of low income recent immigrants did so, though this number was considerably higher among more established immigrants.[64] The libertarian think tank Fraser Institute has also studied this issue claims that the immigrants who arrived between 1987 and 2004 cost governments $23 billion per annum (as of 2006) in excess of taxes raised from those immigrants, relating to universal social services (e.g., welfare, medicare, public education).[13]
Economic impact of immigration to Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't have the time to analyze their data but I have two questions about it. Where was the study done and does it include costs incurred by other levels of government like ESL that is paid from school taxes and perhaps taxpayer subsidized transit. I suspect that there is a huge difference between services used by immigrants in Toronto as opposed to Vancouver.

 

[Tonington]

We can assume many of them don't find jobs as immigrants decades ago, who were mostly from Europe, got nothing. Like my dad.

According to the Vancouver Sun today, July 20/11, page B2, no link yet, immigration numbers are thus:

30% - economic immigrants, who got into Canada based on skills or a job offer
56% - of of immigrants are spouses, or family class
14% - refugees (not immigrants, the article discusses the number of newcomers to the country)

So over half the immigrants that come here, are based on family connections, not whether they have the skills to work here. So they need settlement money to adjust, and some get it forever being seniors. If we just let in economic migrants and made them marry Canadians, we wouldn't have ethnic cities and they would become Canadians faster. The new political immigrant reality requires a lot of taxpayer cash. I disagree with the current policy. Time to put multiculturalism on a tight budget.

Well that is flatly contradicted by the article which ran in the Star:

For the math challenged, because we seem to have so many here who are...that's 65.3% Economic class, 22.3 % Family class, and 12.4% Humanitarian class. In other words, the majority come here with a job already.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I'm more interested in raising the bar for immigrants. We have shortages of doctors, engineers and other professionals. Immigrants entering Canada to meet these shortages should have to get their license to practice in Canada first, and then can come to Canada. Also the government should be able to determine where they live for the first 5 years.

Right I agree. That would help so many small towns across the country who need doctors. Make them stay for five years and change the laws so that after that they can get citizenship. There has to be more responsibilites attached to the great benefit of getting Canadian citizenship. Three years is way too short. Five to ten years shows greater commitment.

But making people live in small towns is considered oppressive to immigrants. When immigrants come to Canada they are automatically given all the rights of person born in Canada. Yet they really don't have allt he rights because they can be deported, I cannot be deported because I was born here. So it could be done. Perhaps we can change the laws so that Canada benefits, and not some lobby groups who don't care about the country.

Where are these famous engineer shortages? Biz takes in over 200,000 temp workers each year.

 

[Durry]

Well that is flatly contradicted by the article which ran in the Star:

For the math challenged, because we seem to have so many here who are...that's 65.3% Economic class, 22.3 % Family class, and 12.4% Humanitarian class. In other words, the majority come here with a job already.

But this does not add up to the 225,000 + immigrants that we are supposed to immigrate either.
Maybe the 225k number includes all family members ???

 

[Tonington]

Where are these famous engineer shortages?

There's over 1000 job postings on monster.ca for "engineer"...

But this does not add up to the 225,000 + immigrants that we are supposed to immigrate either.
Maybe the 225k number includes all family members ???

The year is not over yet....225k is the target for the year. :roll:

 

[Nuggler]

Well, I read your comments the last time but I did not agree with most of your comments.
I chose not to reply because there would be no final correct answer that we would agree on. So I just decided we were both entitled to our points of view and left it at that!!

And that, folks, would be a first.8O

 

[Durry]

There's over 1000 job postings on monster.ca for "engineer"...



The year is not over yet....225k is the target for the year. :roll:

Most of these engineering jobs are for very specific engineering skills. It's unlikely they could be filled by immigration.

Then the table should not be considered valid until the yr is up !!

So over half the immigrants that come here, are based on family connections, not whether they have the skills to work here. So they need settlement money to adjust, and some get it forever being seniors. If we just let in economic migrants and made them marry Canadians, we wouldn't have ethnic cities and they would become Canadians faster. The new political immigrant reality requires a lot of taxpayer cash. I disagree with the current policy. Time to put multiculturalism on a tight budget.

I think your right on the money with this statement!

 

[Tonington]

Most of these engineering jobs are for very specific engineering skills. It's unlikely they could be filled by immigration.

What kind of retarded logic is that? My company hired a process engineer for our GMP vaccine manufacturing site from out of the country.

Then the table should not be considered valid until the yr is up !!

What kind of retarded logic is that? The table is comparing to last year at the same time, ie. rate has changed. It's a perfectly valid table.

I think your right on the money with this statement!

He's not, but that won't likely stop your bigotted ignorant claims. Check out our statistics, the majority are economic class, and have been for quite some time:
Facts and figures 2009 – Immigration overview: Permanent and temporary residents

 

[Durry]

What kind of retarded logic is that? My company hired a process engineer for our GMP vaccine manufacturing site from out of the country.
It's a perfectly valid table.

That's only one example. I can give dozens of examples of where to the contrary. For instance in the Oil industry, hardly any immigrant engineers have experience with design work in cold winter climates and even fewer have experience with heavy oil or SAGD technology.

I disagree with you on the table.

Maybe your logic is a bit retarded.

 

[lone wolf]

Why don't you spare us the rhetoric and just give us the link - not that we won't take your word for it or anything like that....

 

[Tonington]

That's only one example. I can give dozens of examples of where to the contrary.

The point was, there are plenty of skilled workers abroad that can fill roles required by our economy, and that is a good thing for our economy. Sometimes it takes time to find the right people, no question about that.

As for the table, it's perfectly valid. Businesses address periodically how they are performing against targets and previous years. My division gets updates every quarter. This is no different, and no less valid.

 

[gerryh]

Strange, because I suspect some anti-Immigrant people are really bigots and share similar racist qualities with many Israeli apologists who believe that some people are God's Chosen people and as a result have a right to treat the people God didn't choose badly based on skin color and/or religion.

You damn near got a thumbs up from me, if it hadn't been for the highlighted section of BS.