Where do you find the time for all this exhaustive "training" among all your internet time? Clue 2 that you're full of shyte.
Israel...
- Thread starter dancing-loon
- Start date
Where do you find the time for all this exhaustive "training" among all your internet time? Clue 2 that you're full of shyte.
Yet another great CSI moment, its possible to have a job, use the internet and have a life, one day when you get a clue you will to.
A job, a life and ten hours of training. Where ever did you find a place with 26 hour days?
Clue 3: Too defensive when cornered.
Your CSI work needs a little help, training is involved in my job so your 26 hour a day theory is wrong... where exactly did I state the training was otherwise not related to my job.
I like how you have turned to personal attacks after your point of view on this topic was shot down, please continue its good reading.
Point of view on what topic? You came in full of venom proclaiming Israel as yours and all who disagree are wrong and I'm supposed to believe you? Internet is full of fantasy people. You're just one more of them....
Economy changes not unless the heart of the people change first.
There has to be a change of heart in the case of Israel verses the Muslim nation otherwise, there can be no peace.
If peace is dependent on the economy, there will be no end.
Countless times there have been peace attempts by US presidents but to no avail.
Who will change first, how and when is the question.
Peace>>>AJ
There has to be a change of heart in the case of Israel verses the Muslim nation otherwise, there can be no peace.
If peace is dependent on the economy, there will be no end.
Countless times there have been peace attempts by US presidents but to no avail.
Who will change first, how and when is the question.
Peace>>>AJ
dark (with all respect),
I wish I cared but I don't in the same way I didn't care when at the actual time the Towers fell, I didn't care and don't give a W5 now.
The US is not an objective third party. The US runs cover for Israeli atrocities at the UN by vetoing anything which would hold Israel accountable for its crimes against humanity:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm
and supplying Israel with more than a trillion dollars of military and economic support.
If the level of US support for Israelis and Palestinians were reversed, Israel would probably not exist and I would probably be pointing out atrocities committed against Israeli civilians by the Palestinian Defense Force.
No American leader cares about Palestinian suffering. Palestinians lack the influence of Israeli special interest groups like AIPAC who influence which US politicians get elected and which ones don't. No American politician dares criticize Israel's war crimes or crimes against humanity for fear that pro-Israel interest groups would campaign against them.
I would agree with that statement.
What holds the US and Israel together basically first is the belief in the Israel God.
Otherwise, why not spend all that US money you quoted, and buy an Island and relocate Israel there as a swap and giving up the land to the Palestinians?
Similar to what the US did with the native Indians.
Same God is above all three represented, Jews, Muslims and Christians.
The answer lies there, more so than the economy.
My thoughts.
Peace>>>AJ
A good number of the suicide attackers were women. Are you saying these women were lesbians? Obviously other motivations exist besides religious fanaticism. They include nationalism, revenge and exploitation.
http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/sa/v6n2p5Kim.html
Your loyalty to Israel isn't a problem. Your sense of religious entitlement at the expense of inferiors and your inabil;ity to criticise the Israeli government for its war crimes and crimes against humanity is a problem.
It is possible to be a loyal Israeli and critical of the Israeli government at the same time. For example this organization consists of mostly loyal Israelis.
A patriot isn't someone who blindly defends their leaders' crimes against humanity and war crimes but someone who hold their leaders accountable for their actions.
You lie. We agreed in a thread a long time ago, after extensive examination of documented historical events, that both sides had their hands dirty with atrocities. Historians can't agree on when and how the violence started, but you have special insights that allow you to come here and insinuate an incident in 1948 started it all. Obvious nonsense.
You have a clear agenda and no credibility.
And by peaceful you mean Arab immigrants leading rebellions right?
Again, thats just a mistruth. The Ottomans (the peaceful rulers) let the Jewish zionist settlers in because illegal arab immigrants were tearing the place to pieces.
Under ottaman rule the region that is currently Israel was Jewish Dominated.
Again, no, the violence started when Arab nationalism mixed with new found religious insight to take more than 90% of the land for 90% of the populace.
Oh, I see, now the Palestinians are forced into actions by terrorists...but god forbid Palestine is responsible for forcing Israel into actions through its terrorist organizations.
Fixed
So which is it? was the region peaceful and run by ottomans or full or ethnic and mass cleansing? Because when the Brits took it they ruled with an Iron fist and the second they cut it free the neighbouring countries declared war.
You are contradicting yourself.
Again not true, international law says "when the fighting is over", how long until peace was declared (hint, still not to this day).
It also never said the desendants get to come back.
They did a ****ty job then, considering most of the abandoned land was given to Arab muslims who decided to stay and be part of Israel, occupying leading positions in the government and military.
No, they suffer because of their own refusal to accept responsibility for their actions and the course of history.
fixed.
fixed.
fixed.
fixed.
That's my honest observation based on the facts and trends, not a wish. People who deny these realities do not contribute to peace, but contribute to continued Palestinian oppression and injustice and ultimately continued violence with their continued support of an illogical wish of a military victory of Palestine over Israel.
It is as cruel as supporting American first nations in an armed rebellion against the US government, nothing but suffering and failure will result when more useful solutions could have borne fruit.
Morning Scratch how are you? True apathy requires no announcement. You are just another softy hiding behind false bravado. Those who don't care rarely even breath.:smile:
Make your arguments and back them up with references. Don't make personal attacks. The reason why Israeli apologists resort to personal attacks on me is that deep down they know what I post is true.
I have said in the past and I say it now. Atrocities were committed and are committed by both sides. The current war is the result of escalating reprisals which originated with people being driven off the land by armed Zionist terrorists.
The actions of these Jewish terrorists fall clearly into the defintion of terrorism. They assassinated diplomats, blew up hotels, and slaughtered innocent men, women and children, used biological (and likely chemical) warfare....
Search this document for a reference to Acre
http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/npr/vol08/83/83cohen.pdf
Of course Zionist atrocities resulted in reprisals. But the Zionist philosophy of religious entitlement and superiority are the root cause of the ongoing violence in this region. Palestinians are people with the misfortune of living in the land without people for the people without land.
As posts by sesnfan clearly show, many Jews feel they have religious entitlement to the property of inferior non-Jews, regardless of where they were born or how long they have been residents of Palestine. I wonder how sensfan would feel about a Jew marrying a Palestinian? Would you care to express your views on this S?
My posts above link to evidence proving Zionists were already committing wholesale acts of ethnic cleansing and mass slaughter before the start of the 1948 war. Zionist atrocities triggered the 1948 war, not the other way around. In those days most Palestinians were unarmed and peaceful.
Nearly every house in Israel older than 60 years used to belong to non-Jews. The original non-Jewish occupants were driven out by force, often with just what they could carry. Even then, Zionist terrorists lightened their load of money, jewelry and other valuables. Jewish families moved into recently abandoned non-Jewish homes, kept whatever furniture they liked and put everything else in the trash along with the family portraits of the former residents. That's the historical facts as supported by Palestinian testimony and government archives in both Israel and the UK and published in books by Jewish Israeli historians like Pappe and Morris.
What's going on in Darfur today isn't that different that what's been going on in Palestine since 1947. The main difference is that Israelis have more influence over what we know and who we choose as leaders.
Israeli apologists may not like these ugly historical facts and present day realities, but no matter how much they try to obscure them they can't change the contents of the historical archives which clearly document Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. These war crimes and crimes against humanity never stopped and continue to this day.
Ethnic cleansing and property expropriation causes Palestinian to violence. Thats what started this war in 1947 and continues to cause it to this day.
Israel has committed pretty much every war crime.
Sooner or later, these truths will be widely known.
So your logic is vastly faulty in that it pins the origin of violence to foreign Jewish immigration.
Ignoring the fallacy of that "never before" lets look at a fairly neutral site (if there is one)
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm
3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians. Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs. For a detailed discussion that focuses on this myth, please refer to Zionism and its Impact.
7. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority since about 1896, but probably not before. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was a Muslim majority. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns. Within the Jerusalem district, there was a subdistrict of Jerusalem that includes many of the immediate suburbs such as Eyn Karem, Beit Zeit etc. In that subdistrict, the Jews remained a minority , with only about 52,000 out of 132,000 persons in 1931 for example.
back to me: Ergo, Israel should have always encompassed Jerusalem if nothing else.
Ignoring the fallacy of that "never before" lets look at a fairly neutral site (if there is one)
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm
3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians. Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs. For a detailed discussion that focuses on this myth, please refer to Zionism and its Impact.
7. The city of Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since about 1896 - The city of Jerusalem itself there was a Jewish majority since about 1896, but probably not before. The district of Jerusalem (as opposed to the city) comprised a very wide area in Ottoman and British times, in which there was a Muslim majority. This included Jericho, Bethlehem and other towns. Within the Jerusalem district, there was a subdistrict of Jerusalem that includes many of the immediate suburbs such as Eyn Karem, Beit Zeit etc. In that subdistrict, the Jews remained a minority , with only about 52,000 out of 132,000 persons in 1931 for example.
back to me: Ergo, Israel should have always encompassed Jerusalem if nothing else.
With pleasure.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/68707-new-middle-east-8.html
That was not a personal attack, it was an empiracal observation. I would not attack you personally. As much as I disagree with you, you have my respect. That is why when you stray into intellectual dishonesty, I'm going to call you on it, as I expect you to do to me.
That's the point of contention. I'm finding the weight of evidence pointing to the fact that most people were driven off the land by fear, initiated by attacking Arab armies. They left either out of a perceived fear of what the Jews would do to them, or out of heed of the Arab leaders call for them to "get out the way while we push the Jews into the sea".
Only a small minority of the refugees were forced out, and those primarily from strategic towns where the Jews couldn't risk a population sympathetic to the Arab attackers.
You misunderstand what I've posted.
The origin of the conflict is Zionism. As to which side escalated the conflict to violence first, that's probably unknowable. Likely both sides are responsible for escalating the conflict to violence.
I am aware that Zionism was peaceful at first. By the 1930's Zionists were actively preparing for their ethnic cleansing campaign. But by 1947 Zionism was the driving force behind acts of ethnic cleansing, rape, torture and murder which triggered the 1948 war.
Besides the fact that it doesn't matter why people fled their homes, the evidence in Israel military archives prove a majority of the people who fled their homes did so out of fear for their personal safety. Even if only one person fled their home, they still have a right to return. Even Z admits that. He just disagrees that the descendants inherit that right of return, unless the return is thousands of years later and ordained by God. My argument is that since the UN contributed to this refugee problem, they have joint responsibility to clean this mess up along with Israel and every nation which voted to recognize Israel despite their international lawlessness.
You should read Pappe's book.
http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851684670
According to international law and the UN Charter, civilians have a right to return home after the fighting ends. Not allowing these people to return home immediately was a crime against humanity.
Israel agreed to respect the UN Charter and International Law when it was recognized by the UN. If Israel cannot abide by the terms of the UN Charter and International Law, then it should resign member status.
I have read the Old Testament. I understand why Jews feel a connection to this land. I also have a house I grew up in. I have fond memories of that home. But it would be criminal to invade the house, rob the current occupants and seize the house, even if I had a book which claimed God gave it to me. If this biblical prophecy is to be fulfilled, it won't happen by a series of crimes against humanity. Israel in its current form is unsustainable. The current path leads to violent annihilation. Israeli's would be adviced to keep their passports up to date.
Personally I favor turning this area into an international zone of peace where no weapons are allowed. That sounds more like the intent of the biblical prophecy than the current situation.
The origin of the conflict is Zionism. As to which side escalated the conflict to violence first, that's probably unknowable. Likely both sides are responsible for escalating the conflict to violence.
I am aware that Zionism was peaceful at first. By the 1930's Zionists were actively preparing for their ethnic cleansing campaign. But by 1947 Zionism was the driving force behind acts of ethnic cleansing, rape, torture and murder which triggered the 1948 war.
Besides the fact that it doesn't matter why people fled their homes, the evidence in Israel military archives prove a majority of the people who fled their homes did so out of fear for their personal safety. Even if only one person fled their home, they still have a right to return. Even Z admits that. He just disagrees that the descendants inherit that right of return, unless the return is thousands of years later and ordained by God. My argument is that since the UN contributed to this refugee problem, they have joint responsibility to clean this mess up along with Israel and every nation which voted to recognize Israel despite their international lawlessness.
You should read Pappe's book.
http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851684670
According to international law and the UN Charter, civilians have a right to return home after the fighting ends. Not allowing these people to return home immediately was a crime against humanity.
Israel agreed to respect the UN Charter and International Law when it was recognized by the UN. If Israel cannot abide by the terms of the UN Charter and International Law, then it should resign member status.
I have read the Old Testament. I understand why Jews feel a connection to this land. I also have a house I grew up in. I have fond memories of that home. But it would be criminal to invade the house, rob the current occupants and seize the house, even if I had a book which claimed God gave it to me. If this biblical prophecy is to be fulfilled, it won't happen by a series of crimes against humanity. Israel in its current form is unsustainable. The current path leads to violent annihilation. Israeli's would be adviced to keep their passports up to date.
Personally I favor turning this area into an international zone of peace where no weapons are allowed. That sounds more like the intent of the biblical prophecy than the current situation.
Drought and Israeli Policy Threaten West Bank Water Security
By Stephen Lendman
Global Research, July 16, 2008
Fresh water is precious everywhere but especially in one of the driest, hottest places on earth - the Middle East. It's why it's a strategic resource and the reason countries like Israel do everything possible to secure a reliable supply. In the words of former prime minister Moshe Sharett: "Water to us is life itself." It shapes Israeli policy going back to the early Mandate period.
A Brief History
Post-WW I, Zionists wanted Sykes-Picot borders altered to include the Jordan River, Lower Litani, east coast of the Sea of Galilee and Lower Yarmouk headwaters and tributaries. These affect Palestine, southern Lebanon, Syria and the Jordan Valley. Efforts to secure them fell short because French opposition blocked them. But it didn't prevent further regional hydrological studies. They were needed because by WW II's end accommodating a growing Palestinian and Jewish population grew acute.
Israel's "War of Independence" followed in 1947-48. It assured water sovereignty as well. Israel was free to act unilaterally - to tap and develop all available resources plus whatever it could seize later on. They'd be needed after Israel's 1950 Law of Return was passed. It granted Jews worldwide special rights - to emigrate freely and become citizens of the land of Israel. It brought in waves of new immigrants requiring considerable water resources for them, but Israel's supply was inadequate. At the time, four states shared the Jordan-Yarmouk watershed. Developing it was essential. Each had growing needs so securing a dependable supply was vital.
Several regional water-sharing proposals failed in part because Israel linked them to recognizing the Jewish state. It also rejected solutions not in its strategic interest and acted unilaterally instead. Take its National Water Carrier project. Construction began in the late 1950s and early 1960s and became the cou
By Stephen Lendman
Global Research, July 16, 2008
Fresh water is precious everywhere but especially in one of the driest, hottest places on earth - the Middle East. It's why it's a strategic resource and the reason countries like Israel do everything possible to secure a reliable supply. In the words of former prime minister Moshe Sharett: "Water to us is life itself." It shapes Israeli policy going back to the early Mandate period.
A Brief History
Post-WW I, Zionists wanted Sykes-Picot borders altered to include the Jordan River, Lower Litani, east coast of the Sea of Galilee and Lower Yarmouk headwaters and tributaries. These affect Palestine, southern Lebanon, Syria and the Jordan Valley. Efforts to secure them fell short because French opposition blocked them. But it didn't prevent further regional hydrological studies. They were needed because by WW II's end accommodating a growing Palestinian and Jewish population grew acute.
Israel's "War of Independence" followed in 1947-48. It assured water sovereignty as well. Israel was free to act unilaterally - to tap and develop all available resources plus whatever it could seize later on. They'd be needed after Israel's 1950 Law of Return was passed. It granted Jews worldwide special rights - to emigrate freely and become citizens of the land of Israel. It brought in waves of new immigrants requiring considerable water resources for them, but Israel's supply was inadequate. At the time, four states shared the Jordan-Yarmouk watershed. Developing it was essential. Each had growing needs so securing a dependable supply was vital.
Several regional water-sharing proposals failed in part because Israel linked them to recognizing the Jewish state. It also rejected solutions not in its strategic interest and acted unilaterally instead. Take its National Water Carrier project. Construction began in the late 1950s and early 1960s and became the cou
Oh yes....those horrible Israelis, who are now releasing 5 prisoners (in good health) and the remains 199 enemy KIA in return for the bodies of two Israeli soldiers abducted in Israel ALIVe and then (we will find) were tortured to death by Hezbollah.