Israel...

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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And Israeli sabre-rattling isn't justification for Arab world distrust? It takes two to tango.

Woof!

Like giving back the Sinai. Rattle rattle.

Withdrawing from Lebanon. Rattle rattle.

Withdrawal from Gaza. Rattle rattle.

Agreeing to Palestiian state. Again. Rattle rattle.

Considering withdrawal from Golan Heights. Rattle rattle.

Having rockets fired at them everyday and showing only one-one trillionth of the response they're capable of. Rattle rattle.

lol. I don't think the Arabs distrust Israel. They smell weakness.
 

Canaduh

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Mar 7, 2008
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Like giving back the Sinai. Rattle rattle.

Withdrawing from Lebanon. Rattle rattle.
Israel already has enough desert, why would we want more.
Withdrawal from Gaza. Rattle rattle.
If you knew the ammount of raids conducted into gaza and WB every week then you wouldnt call it a withdrawl.
Agreeing to Palestiian state. Again. Rattle rattle.
How is that saber rattling?
Considering withdrawal from Golan Heights. Rattle rattle.
Im in the Golani brigade, its news to me.
Having rockets fired at them everyday and showing only one-one trillionth of the response they're capable of. Rattle rattle.
Its called self control, try it one day.
lol. I don't think the Arabs distrust Israel. They smell weakness.

Tell me how is that considered saber rattling and weakness.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
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Like giving back the Sinai. Rattle rattle.

Withdrawing from Lebanon. Rattle rattle.

Withdrawal from Gaza. Rattle rattle.

Agreeing to Palestiian state. Again. Rattle rattle.

Considering withdrawal from Golan Heights. Rattle rattle.

Having rockets fired at them everyday and showing only one-one trillionth of the response they're capable of. Rattle rattle.

lol. I don't think the Arabs distrust Israel. They smell weakness.

Unlike the Buckaroos, they make sure that they do everything right the first time!
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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Like giving back the Sinai. Rattle rattle.

Withdrawing from Lebanon. Rattle rattle.

Withdrawal from Gaza. Rattle rattle.

Agreeing to Palestiian state. Again. Rattle rattle.

Considering withdrawal from Golan Heights. Rattle rattle.

Having rockets fired at them everyday and showing only one-one trillionth of the response they're capable of. Rattle rattle.

lol. I don't think the Arabs distrust Israel. They smell weakness.

Rattle rattle first ... then poke, prod, piddle until you get something going (you know: keep messing around with the hornet's nest until you get stung - then blame the hornet)

Next? Exaggerate, fib and lie to justify. Then ... ignore the advice. Walk in and take it because you believe you're entitled. Gain control in the finest of Nazi traditions (kill ten for every Israeli trouser soiled) - then give it back and go "who, me?" when you realize you bit off more than you can chew (ie world opinion spanks you again)

Let me qualify myself.... I served for six months as a UN peacekeeper on the Golan Heights. I have seen enough to realize very little "Good Guy Israel" propaganda rings true. Arab ways may be alien to our own. Lies don't make Isreal's any better. I wasn't kidding about I'd prefer to know why I died.
 
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Canaduh

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22? You're still wet behind the ears. C'mon back when you're all growed up little boy.

I could say the same for you, Do not even begin to think you know who I am. When you have been in a war zone and seen people die meters from you, call me back. (Being stuck in rush hour traffic or trying to get through the checkout 5 minutes before the shops close does not count as a war zone sorry.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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I could say the same for you, Do not even begin to think you know who I am. When you have been in a war zone and seen people die meters from you, call me back. (Being stuck in rush hour traffic or trying to get through the checkout 5 minutes before the shops close does not count as a war zone sorry.

I watched that movie too. Now, about reality. You do know what that is don't you? Lemme let you in on a secret, little boy: If you really have seen death, you lose the taste for it. In your ravings, I read the ramblings of a gun-ho wannabe. Call you back? You can only imagine what I'm calling you....
 

Canaduh

Derailing Threads
Mar 7, 2008
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I watched that movie too. Now, about reality. You do know what that is don't you? Lemme let you in on a secret, little boy: If you really have seen death, you lose the taste for it. In your ravings, I read the ramblings of a gun-ho wannabe. Call you back? You can only imagine what I'm calling you....

You win the Epeen war, grats. Some of us actually have to go outside and work, if you want to continue this ill be back in 10 or so hours after training.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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You win the Epeen war, grats. Some of us actually have to go outside and work, if you want to continue this ill be back in 10 or so hours after training.

Will this be from the Israeli sunshine gang ... or the Outback

May 14th, 2008, 07:30 PM

I was born and lived in australia for 19 years.... trust me not breaking or a dropping a beer is far more important than a child. To Greengreta I asked some of my friends in Melbourne and this story wasnt on either the morning news or midday news, so it looks like canada is more shocked about something that happened in a completely different country.

You DO get around don'cha?
 

Canaduh

Derailing Threads
Mar 7, 2008
304
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Will this be from the Israeli sunshine gang ... or the Outback

May 14th, 2008, 07:30 PM

I was born and lived in australia for 19 years.... trust me not breaking or a dropping a beer is far more important than a child. To Greengreta I asked some of my friends in Melbourne and this story wasnt on either the morning news or midday news, so it looks like canada is more shocked about something that happened in a completely different country.

You DO get around don'cha?

Grats you searched through my post history, get a life?. I was and always have been Jewish, seeing as you have so much free time on your hands go check out something called Mahal. You failed at politics, now you fail at trolling.

Shalom.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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Grats you searched through my post history, get a life?. I was and always have been Jewish, seeing as you have so much free time on your hands go check out something called Mahal. You failed at politics, now you fail at trolling.

Shalom.

Failed at politics? Not likely. I can spot a fraud a mile away. So what? You're Jewish. A lot of people are. What you're not is someone with a firm grip on reality.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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I watched that movie too. Now, about reality. You do know what that is don't you? Lemme let you in on a secret, little boy: If you really have seen death, you lose the taste for it. In your ravings, I read the ramblings of a gun-ho wannabe. Call you back? You can only imagine what I'm calling you....

You know, being 22, there is a good chance he's actually been in a warzone, possibley for several tours. Can you say that about you? Unless you fought in Korea or WWII probably not as those were the last two wars we were in.

Claiming age equals experience is faulty logic. Some people go through more by 10 than many do in their whole lives, some live to ripe old ages while being immature childish buggers.

Im not saying he ISN'T an immature kid who hasn't been through much, but I can't claim to know for certain, and I certainly don't pretend maturity has jack to do with age.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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You know, being 22, there is a good chance he's actually been in a warzone, possibley for several tours. Can you say that about you? Unless you fought in Korea or WWII probably not as those were the last two wars we were in.

Claiming age equals experience is faulty logic. Some people go through more by 10 than many do in their whole lives, some live to ripe old ages while being immature childish buggers.

Im not saying he ISN'T an immature kid who hasn't been through much, but I can't claim to know for certain, and I certainly don't pretend maturity has jack to do with age.


Chances are for gamers. War is reality. There's no talking the walk. How much do you know about Canadians in military service? Ever heard of Vietnam? Cyprus? the Congo? Medak Pocket? or every other peacekeeping operation where the peace didn't want to be kept.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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They weren't warzones though, the key difference if your in a warzone you become a veteran, if you aren't they can mangle you and far more easily sweep you under the rug.

And I know enough, thankfully I never got sent anywhere to be shot at. Im not going to pretend my time was anything more than a way to get money for college when I was younger.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
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Did the old lady murder the youth's little sister for being the wrong race in her neighbourhood thats been "pure" since the 30's.

No they don't, They avoid fighting for freedom or a just society and support dictatorships and oppress any actual movements for freedom that occur in their own land. They want a theocracy (openly) and oppress their own christian populations who have the same rights to be there as anyone.


No, they fight to expand their holdings and carve a new nation from the lands of other nations (the west bank was part of Jordan)





No they fight because some people want to kill them and drive them off the land of their birth because they don't believe in the same religion.



No..if they wanted that there wouldn't be anything left in Palestine, let alone free supplies coming in.



No...Hamas is an Offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood which doesn't just fight Israel.



Again, thats now how they formed.



On September 4, 2007, the Israeli Supreme Court ordered the government to redraw the path of the wall because the current route was deemed "highly prejudicial" to the villagers of Bil'in. Chief Justice Dorit Beinish wrote in the ruling, "We were not convinced that it is necessary for security-military reasons to retain the current route that passes on Bilin’s lands." The case was filed two years ago by the local council leader of Bilin, Ahmed Issa Abdullah Yassin, who hired Israeli human rights lawyer Michael Sfard to argue the case. The Israeli Defence Ministry says it will respect the ruling

Ya thats shameful the way they respond to non-violent protests far better than to rockets in the face.



Nor do we.

Palestine was a peaceful part of the world while it was run by the Ottomans. That changed when Allied forces defeated the Ottomans and took control of Palestine. The British allowed Jewish refugees fleeing the horrors of Nazi Europe to overrun this area. The violence started when God's chosen people began committing horrendous atrocities in order to take what they claim God gave them (Palestinian homes, businesses, bank accounts, farmland, family portraits, ancestral gravesites...) by force.

Arab Jaffa Seized Before Israel's Creation in 1948


By Donald Neff


It was 46 years ago, on May 13, 1948—the day before Israel's creation—that the all-Arab seaside city of Jaffa surrendered to Jewish forces. It was the largest Arab city in Palestine and, under the U.N. Partition Plan, was to have been part of a Palestinian state. But Menachem Begin's terrorist Irgun group began bombarding civilian sectors of the city on April 25, terrifying the inhabitants into panicky flight.

At the time, the city's normal population of around 75,000 was already down to 55,000. On the day of surrender less than three weeks later, only about 4,500 remained. The rest of Jaffa's citizens had fled their homes in terror, becoming part of the 726,000 Palestinian refugees created by the war.

Although Arab armies from neighboring countries did not enter Palestine until May 15, Jewish forces had been active in a campaign of ethnic cleansing since passage of the partition plan the previous Nov. 29. The first effort was aimed at clearing out Palestinians living in cities designated as part of the Jewish state.

This began in a major way on April 18, when Tiberias was captured and its 5,500 Palestinian residents put in flight. On April 22, Haifa fell to the Jewish forces and 70,000 Palestinians fled. On May 10, the 12,000 Palestinians of Safed were routed and the next day Beisan, with 6,000 Palestinians, fell.

Preceding these conquests had been the massacre at Deir Yassin on April 9, where 254 innocent Palestinian men, women and children were killed by a combined force drawn from Irgun and from Lehi, another Jewish terrorist group known to the British as the "Stern Gang" and headed in 1948 by a triumvirate that included Yitzhak Shamir. Reports of the savagery of the attack had spread throughout the Palestinian community and caused widespread dread at the advance of Jewish forces. 2

The capture of Jaffa differed from the earlier conquests in that under the U.N. plan it was supposed to remain as a Palestinian enclave between neighboring Tel Aviv and areas to the south and east designated as part of the Jewish state. Its capture demonstrated that the future Israelis were not going to observe the limits set on their state by the United Nations.

Why did the residents of Jaffa flee?

According to Jewish intelligence officer Slunuel. Toledano, "First because the Etzel [Irgun] had been shelling Jaffa for three weeks before the Haganah [regular army] entered, making the Arabs very much afraid; some already began to leave as a result of that shelling by Etzel. [Second,] there were rumors, based on the Etzel reputation, [that] the minute the Jews entered the town, the inhabitants would all be slaughtered."3

After the conquest, Irgun forces indulged in widespread looting. Reported Jon Kimche, former editor of the Jewish Observer and Middle East Review, the official organ of the Zionist Federation of Britain:

"For the first time in the still undeclared war, a Jewish force commenced to loot in wholesale fashion." 4 At first the young Irgunists pillaged only dresses, blouses and ornaments for their girl friends. But this discrimination was soon abandoned. Everything that was movable was carried from Jaffa-furniture, carpets, pictures, crockery and pottery, jewelry and cutlery.

The occupied parts of Jaffa were stripped, and yet another traditional military characteristic raised its ugly head. Historian Michael Palumbo wrote of Jaffa: "Not content with looting, the Irgun fighters smashed or destroyed everything which they could not carry off, including pianos, lamps and window-panes." Ben Gurion afterwards admitted that Jews of all classes poured into Jaffa from Tel Aviv to participate in what he called "a shameful and distressing spectacle."

When future Israeli Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion learned that Jaffa had fallen, he wrote in his diary: "Jaffa will be a Jewish city. War is war." To accomplish this, Israel set up a housing committee that was to allocate Palestinian homes and apartments to newly arrived Jewish families on certain dates. But Israelis ignored the dates and occupied the abandoned residences on a first-come, first possess basis. Israeli immigrant chief Giora Yoseftal reported: "Thus the populating of Jaffa was achieved by continuous invasions and counter invasions [of unauthorized immigrants." Within a short time some Jews had moved into abandoned Palestinian homes in Jaffa. Although no figures appear to be available for Jaffa, Palestinian bank accounts in Haifa containing 1.5 billion Palestinian pounds were seized by Israel.

There was also desecration of Christian churches. Father Deleque, a Catholic priest, reported:

"Jewish soldiers broke down the doors of my church and robbed many precious and sacred objects. Then they threw the statues of Christ down into a nearby garden." He added that Jewish leaders had reasssured him that religious buildings would be respected, "but their deeds do not correspond to their words."

Nearly a year after the fall of Jaffa, a group of Palestinian notables from that city who had become refugees in Beirut submitted to U.S. Minister to Lebanon Lowell C. Pinkerton an appeal to the United States to redress their grievances . The appeal included enclosures of agreements with the Haganah and a report on the conditions in Jaffa, the flight of Jaffa's refugees and how they were forced to abandon their land and property. It ended with the warning that "unless they [the refugees] are effectively resettled in their own homes and lands, the peace sought for in this part of the world will never reign, even though it might appear on the surface that the trouble has subsided."
Today, nearly a half-century later, the Palestinians remain refugees. But visitors arriving at Ben-Gurion Airport in Israel can hear about the old abandoned homes in a booklet called The Opinionated Tourist Guide. The guide is given to tourists, who can read that "the most beautiful homes in the country are the old Arab ones made of stone, built in the early part of the century, that dot the capital and some streets of Haifa and Jaffa ... They cost a fortune, however-$I million is not uncommon and there aren't many of them for sale.

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0494/9404075.htm
Palestinians were forced to abandon their homes and properties by Jewish terrorist organizations. These terrorist organizations raped, tortured and murdered in order to terrorize innocent civilians and ethnically cleanse Palestine of non-Jews.

Books
  • The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Ilan Pappe
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine should be put forward as a document serving as a prime witness to the war crimes and the crimes against humanity of the destruction of Palestinian society and cultural geography.

By Jim Miles
PalestineChronicle.com
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Ilan Pappe. Oneworld Publications, Oxford, England, 2006.
Ilan Pappe’s work The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine places him in the forefront of the recent burst of excellent information that critically examines and condemns the Jewish-Zionist actions to eliminate not only the people of Palestine but also to eliminate their history culturally and geographically. Following on his previous well researched and readily accessible work A History of Modern Palestine, his latest work, focuses on the concept generated from the very earliest Zionist thought in the Nineteenth century, making the ‘cleansing’ of Palestinian territories a necessity for the survival of the Jewish state.


It is a history made personal. Pappe does not just recount the series of events, and the sequence they occurred in but makes the story become real through the views of Israeli individuals and the views of individual Palestinians. Israel has hidden its war criminals well, out in the open, blatant, the clear majority of their political leaders having served in the military in one capacity or another to facilitate the ‘cleansing’ of their desired state. Using archival references from various Israeli sources as well as the personal diaries of those involved, in particular David Ben-Gurion, a personal encounter with the perpetrators of the genocide is created. That encounter displays a strong-willed double standard that accepted no interference with the ultimate goal of Eretz Israel for Jews only.

It is a history made personal on the Palestinian side, with stories in photos and anecdotes from the dispossessed population, stories of their life style before their evictions or murder and stories of the cultural geography of the many towns and villages that have been erased from both the physical and cultural geography of the larger area.

The Jewish account is the false front expressed through the media, the story of a rugged band of individuals bringing greenness and fruition to a barren and desert land. It denies fully the pastoral and passive lifestyle of the Palestinian people who lived in many towns and villages surrounded with productive croplands and orchards. It denies the increasing wealth and modernization of the area that followed the conclusion of the Second World War, with many ‘modern’ civic infrastructures being brought forward to the Palestinian people. It denies the cultural achievements of the area, the particular forms of landholding and agriculture that developed and were sustainable under varying conditions.

Ethnic cleansing is defined clearly and simply as “the expulsion by force in order to homogenise the ethnically mixed population of a particular region or territory.” This definition is widely accepted across many incidents outside of Palestine and as such is recognized as well as a crime against humanity. Pappe writes “with a deep conviction” that this crime should “become rooted in our memory and consciousness” while at the same time being “excluded from the list of alleged crimes.”[italics in original] What the world has been presented with creates a “deep chasm between reality and representation”, an attempted forced amnesia about the actions taken by Jewish forces against the Palestinian population.

Prior to the ‘war of independence’ many factors had already played into the hands of the Jewish minority. The main feature was the British tacit and complicit support for the creation of the new Jewish state, not surprisingly as the Balfour Declaration had set the stage many years previously. Militarily, the British assisted with the training of the Haganah, the ‘defence’ force of the Jewish community both within Palestine and by providing valuable experience during the Second World War. During the 1936 revolt, “the British had already destroyed the Palestinian leadership and its defence capabilities.” During the first moments of the war, the British stood aside and allowed the Jewish forces to begin the ethnic cleansing, in some instances assisting actively in the process.

The UN played into the Jewish plan as well, with its lopsided proposed partitioning of Palestine giving the larger Palestinian population the minor portion of the land. From the Palestinian perspective they “were at the mercy of an international organization that appeared ready to ignore all the rules of international mediation”, declaring a solution that “was both illegal and immoral.”

A third factor that aided them greatly was the complicity and tactics of the Jordanians who wished to expand their own little empire in the making. While coveting the area of greater Israel, “the Zionist leadership was committed to their collusion with the Jordanians,” who apparently never had much if any sympathy for the cause of Palestine. This collusion had the effect of “ensuring the ethnic cleansing operations” as it “neutralised the strongest army in the Arab world.” Other Arab leaders provided much rhetoric but little in the way of military support from their properly enraged populace.

With an estimated 50,000 well-trained and well-equipped military force the cleansing began against what proved to be a passive Palestinian population and a militarily inactive and ineffective Arab defence force. The Palestinian villagers showed “no wish to fight” and rural Palestine “showed no desire to fight or attack, and was defenceless.” The Jewish forces resorted to terror of various sorts – biological and chemical weapons, murder, rape, and theft of personal property....

http://www.jerusalemites.org/book&film/book64.htm



The ethnic cleansing and mass slaughters preceded the declaration of war by neighboring Arab countries.

Civilians who did not take part in the fighting were never allowed to return to their homes in violation of international law. Instead their homes were given to Jewish families as part of a systematic plan to cleanse Palestine of non-Jews which is also against international law.

Palestinians have suffered 60 years of oppression and injustice as a result of Israel's crimes against humanity. Israeli apologists can make up excuses to justify the unjustifiable and obscure this reality, but the root cause of this war is really very simple. People who suffer injustice and oppression, who have no hope for a better future, will fight, because they have nothing to loose except a life of misery and despair. Fighting is their only chance for a better future.

Over the last 60 years Palestinians have become angrier, better armed and more numerous. Israel has stagnated and is dependant on US aid to maintain a military advantage. This longterm trend will eventually lead to Israel's adversaries overwhelming israel's defenses and inevitably leads to Israel's destruction. That's my honest observation based on the facts and trends, not a wish. People who deny these realities do not contribute to peace, but contribute to continued Palestinian oppression and injustice and ultimately continued violence.
 

Canaduh

Derailing Threads
Mar 7, 2008
304
2
18
Southwest WA
Chances are for gamers. War is reality. There's no talking the walk. How much do you know about Canadians in military service? Ever heard of Vietnam? Cyprus? the Congo? Medak Pocket? or every other peacekeeping operation where the peace didn't want to be kept.

Seeing as you feel the need to make wild assumptions about other people on here I take it your a Nam vet who left a bit behind. If your not a profiler or a psychologist then what right do you have to comment on others people state of mind or who they are (might I add without ever meeting them in person).

Cyprus and *The congo* are far from war zones, peacekeeping =/= war. Now go back to playing CSI the game and make some use of your time.
 

Canaduh

Derailing Threads
Mar 7, 2008
304
2
18
Southwest WA
Palestine was a peaceful part of the world while it was run by the Ottomans. That changed when Allied forces defeated the Ottomans and took control of Palestine. The British allowed Jewish refugees fleeing the horrors of Nazi Europe to overrun this area. The violence started when God's chosen people began committing horrendous atrocities in order to take what they claim God gave them (Palestinian homes, businesses, bank accounts, farmland, family portraits, ancestral gravesites...) by force.


Palestinians were forced to abandon their homes and properties by Jewish terrorist organizations. These terrorist organizations raped, tortured and murdered in order to terrorize innocent civilians and ethnically cleanse Palestine of non-Jews.




The ethnic cleansing and mass slaughters preceded the declaration of war by neighboring Arab countries.

Civilians who did not take part in the fighting were never allowed to return to their homes in violation of international law. Instead their homes were given to Jewish families as part of a systematic plan to cleanse Palestine of non-Jews which is also against international law.

Palestinians have suffered 60 years of oppression and injustice as a result of Israel's crimes against humanity. Israeli apologists can make up excuses to justify the unjustifiable and obscure this reality, but the root cause of this war is really very simple. People who suffer injustice and oppression, who have no hope for a better future, will fight, because they have nothing to loose except a life of misery and despair. Fighting is their only chance for a better future.

Over the last 60 years Palestinians have become angrier, better armed and more numerous. Israel has stagnated and is dependant on US aid to maintain a military advantage. This longterm trend will eventually lead to Israel's adversaries overwhelming israel's defenses and inevitably leads to Israel's destruction. That's my honest observation based on the facts and trends, not a wish. People who deny these realities do not contribute to peace, but contribute to continued Palestinian oppression and injustice and ultimately continued violence.

I will always be loyal to Israel, but I am not completely stupid... neither sides hand is clean in this.

If I was a palestinian and the choice was between a life (if you can call how they live a *life*) and blowing myself up and receiving 72 virgins (supposedly) for eternity, then I would seriously consider the second option.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.