The Complete Wikileaks Thread(All threads merged here!)

[Tonington]

The media has traditionally been the 4th level (pillar) of government. A journalist had a self-imposed duty of social ethics within the job. Now the internet has let loose everyone to become one. Assange sells news, just like the rest, but he has no ethics. No interest in the consequences of his duties. He wants it to be the wild west. As they say, be careful of what you wish for. The wild west can play a few dirty tricks as well.

Is that really any different than the direction journalism is taking though? It's not just Assange. Networks pay big bucks to people with big opinions, bloggers fill another opinion gap, as if there were a lack of opinion...for better or for worse the ethics of investigative journalism has been replaced by democratized opinion peddling. I personally don't think it's helpful, but that's what the world seems to wants or rather needs, in a perversion of self-actualization sort of Maslow needs...

 

[TenPenny]

The media has traditionally been the 4th level (pillar) of government. A journalist had a self-imposed duty of social ethics within the job.

That's a complete myth, spun by 'the media'.

'The media' is a collection of profit-oriented businesses, who use this special status as a tool. The media is no better than the local association of small business owners.

 

[ironsides]

If you don't have any religious scruple about shooting him, then it should be done, at least up to the point when he drops to the ground screaming, then lock him up for 20 years or so.

 

[petros]

I'd like to know WTF has happened to the civilized world when right wingers, in this thread and in the wider world, are calling for the murder of Julian Assange, and it doesn't seem to generate much outrage. Ezra Levant was probably the first one to call for such tactics (in the case of Omar Khadr), but we've also heard it from Tom Flanagan, Sarah Palin, multiple journalists, U.S. congressmen, bloggers, even the editorial board of a respected newspaper, the Wall Street Journal. One could argue that there should be laws against what Assange has done, but there aren't. One could argue that he's zealously irresponsible. I wouldn't, though I can see how the case could be made, but that's not a crime as such either. A former U.S. president has admitted, in a book and out loud, that he authorized torture. That's a major crime in any court in any civilized nation in the world, but it's drawn not a fraction of the outrage and anger that's been directed against the man who revealed some of the secrets of his administration. What are we to think when large numbers of people--I'd bet a majority of American Republicans, I'll see if I can find some poll results--think torturing suspects is a legitimate interrogation method, and it's okay to imprison suspects without charge or trial, indefinitely? There's the extremist mindset laid bare for all to see: murder those who can harm your reputation, suppress dissent, detain and torture people you don't like, to Hell with the rule of law.

Early in December a federal minister stood up in the House in response to an Opposition question to announce that neither he nor the PM were in favour of murdering Julian Assange. That's good I guess, but why would any MP feel it necessary to even ask? Because, as an editorialist in the Ottawa Citizen put it a few weeks ago, the formerly unthinkable has become politics as usual. Torture as government policy, murder as an option in political discussions... There was a popular saying in the sixties when I was growing up, "I used to be disgusted, but now I'm just amused." Well, now I'm disgusted again.

I was watching his Stockholm press release where both who accused him of rape are sitting in the audience. One even goes around with a mic at end of the lecture for those asking questions. They sure don't dress or act like women who were recently raped.

 

[Cliffy]

If you don't have any religious scruple about shooting him, then it should be done, at least up to the point when he drops to the ground screaming, then lock him up for 20 years or so.

You give meaning to Dexters words, you are the raving right winger who thinks Bush's war crimes are OK but a whistle blower should be shot. You have no scruples of any kind.

 

[Kreskin]

That's a complete myth, spun by 'the media'.

'The media' is a collection of profit-oriented businesses, who use this special status as a tool. The media is no better than the local association of small business owners.

Is that really any different than the direction journalism is taking though? It's not just Assange. Networks pay big bucks to people with big opinions, bloggers fill another opinion gap, as if there were a lack of opinion...for better or for worse the ethics of investigative journalism has been replaced by democratized opinion peddling. I personally don't think it's helpful, but that's what the world seems to wants or rather needs, in a perversion of self-actualization sort of Maslow needs...

35-40 years ago the responsibility was taken pretty seriously. When there were 3 or 4 news channels that brought an hour of news per evening they didn't need to make the next big splash to get viewers. Today anyone who can optimize a website to get more clicks or get higher tv ratings than the other 20 news channels is the winner. It's all about the dollar now and, let us not kid ourselves, Wikileaks is all about the dollar too. Today it's not just about peddling opinions. They need to be controversial and divisive to get noticed and survive the business.

 

[TenPenny]

35-40 years ago the responsibility was taken pretty seriously. When there were 3 or 4 news channels that brought an hour of news per evening they didn't need to make the next big splash to get viewers. Today anyone who can optimize a website to get more clicks or get higher tv ratings than the other 20 news channels is the winner. It's all about the dollar now and, let us not kid ourselves, Wikileaks is all about the dollar too. Today it's not just about peddling opinions. They need to be controversial and divisive to get noticed and survive the business.

And as you've just said, wikileaks is just another media outlet. So why aren't you screaming about the other media outlets who are quoting these leaked documents?

 

[Kreskin]

And as you've just said, wikileaks is just another media outlet. So why aren't you screaming about the other media outlets who are quoting these leaked documents?

Wikileaks made the news. The Genie is out.

 

[petros]

Wikileaks made the news. The Genie is out.

The Jinn have been running loose for years...

Made it or diseminated it?

There is more to come. A lot more.

 

[mentalfloss]

Not all them....free speech is one thing.....working actively for our enemies, you know, those guys killing our soldiers.....is something else again.

Nationalism.

The safest way to convince your citizens about who the "real enemies" are.


By the way an excellent documentary called WikiRebels was just released. Pretty eye-opening Iraq footage in there.

http://svtplay.se/v/2264028/wikireb...364142,1,f,-1/pl,v,,2264028/sb,p118750,1,f,-1

 

[Tonington]

35-40 years ago the responsibility was taken pretty seriously.

Some still take it seriously, but honestly that's a niche market. Balance in the media today means you take two polar opposites, and regardless of the context that exists in the real world, you give equal weighting or credibility to both. That's a farce, and an ethical journalist would only do such a thing over issues of genuine uncertainty. I'm thinking specifically about science journalism but the same problem applies to other topics of interest.

But wikileaks is a different kind of beast, it's non-profit. The goal isn't to sell advertising space...and the content they provide and are known for isn't editorialized. It's documents that most people would never see. I do think that viewing documents like this is inherently flawed though, as we don't know all of the context that accompanies these documents. That's the biggest problem, one I was also very critical of when those emails were stolen from the CRU servers.

 

[petros]

If it weren't for Wikileaks how many of would have known that the Muzzies troops from Jordan were a big chunk of the contingent fighting side by side with Johnny Canuck.

"NATO also said Jordan has sent troops to join the alliance-led force in Afghanistan, the first time an Arab nation has publicly agreed to NATO's requests for assistance on the mission. A document posted on NATO's Web site listed 90 Jordanian soldiers alongside other contributions to the force. Allied officials confirmed the presence of the troops but declined to say how long they had been in the country or what role they are playing, saying it was up to Jordanian authorities to give details." http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/07/europe/EU-GEN-NATO-Afghanistan.php

 

[mentalfloss]

Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention

Since his arrest in May, Manning has been a model detainee, without any episodes of violence or disciplinary problems. He nonetheless was declared from the start to be a "Maximum Custody Detainee," the highest and most repressive level of military detention, which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him.

From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs. Lt. Villiard protested that the conditions are not "like jail movies where someone gets thrown into the hole," but confirmed that he is in solitary confinement, entirely alone in his cell except for the one hour per day he is taken out.

Many Western nations -- and even some non-Western nations notorious for human rights abuses -- refuse to employ prolonged solitary confinement except in the most extreme cases of prisoner violence. "It’s an awful thing, solitary," John McCain wrote of his experience in isolated confinement in Vietnam. “It crushes your spirit." As Gawande documented: "A U.S. military study of almost a hundred and fifty naval aviators returned from imprisonment in Vietnam . . . reported that they found social isolation to be as torturous and agonizing as any physical abuse they suffered." Gawande explained that America’s application of this form of torture to its own citizens is what spawned the torture regime which President Obama vowed to end:

This past year, both the Republican and the Democratic Presidential candidates came out firmly for banning torture and closing the facility in Guantánamo Bay, where hundreds of prisoners have been held in years-long isolation. Neither Barack Obama nor John McCain, however, addressed the question of whether prolonged solitary confinement is torture. . . .

This is the dark side of American exceptionalism. . . . Our willingness to discard these standards for American prisoners made it easy to discard the Geneva Conventions prohibiting similar treatment of foreign prisoners of war, to the detriment of America’s moral stature in the world. In much the same way that a previous generation of Americans countenanced legalized segregation, ours has countenanced legalized torture. And there is no clearer manifestation of this than our routine use of solitary confinement . . . .
​

In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig's medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.

The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com
----------------

Hey doesn't Manning kinda remind you guys of that Chinese nobel peace price winner? Hmmmmmmmm....

 

[The Old Medic]

Re: Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

No, Manning does NOT remind me of the Chinese Nobel Prize winner.

He reminds me of a man who is under military discipline, and is being held in pre-trial confinement. You have absolutely NO knowledge of how he is being held, other than that of one Lieutenant (who is the lowest ranking officer that there is). Frankly, I doubt if this Lieutenant is even telling the truth.

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

I guess we'll just have to wait for the wikileak, lol

 

[earth_as_one]

Re: Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

Actually it is known that Manning has been held in these conditions for 4 months now:
Bradley Manning, WikiLeaks' Alleged Leaker, 'Very Annoyed' At Solitary Confinement

Yes it can be a form of torture, with permanently debilitating consequences.
Is long-term solitary confinement torture? : The New Yorker

 

[lone wolf]

Re: Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

How much alone time did he have with his computer?

 

[DaSleeper]

Re: Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

Glenn Greenwald... the same lawyer who had this to say about Juan Williams:roll:

NPR fires Juan Williams for anti-Muslim bigotry - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

I knew I had read that guy before and seen him on TV defending fanatics.......

 

[Colpy]

Re: Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

Glenn Greenwald... the same lawyer who had this to say about Juan Williams:roll:

NPR fires Juan Williams for anti-Muslim bigotry - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

I knew I had read that guy before and seen him on TV defending fanatics.......

Yeah, this guy (Glenn Greenwald) is obviously a drooling moron.

But I am not sure that even is relevant.

23 hour a day isolation is NOT torture. Not even close.

Let me explain something;

Poor Dear Bradley is allegedly a traitor of the worst kind.
He is a narcicistic little prick.
He has a babyface.
He is a little guy.
He has ALWAYS had problems dealing with peers....he is one of those guys, a walking victim.
He is gay.

All of this has been widely publicized.

He is in a military prison.

Go ahead, release him into the general population.

I'll start a pool on how long he lives. Anyone want in?

 

[gerryh]

Re: Wikileaks' Whistleblower Subjected to Inhumane Conditions

He is gay.

Just one question...... what relevance does the above have?