Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’

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Ron in Regina

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As to the raw data, NASA code and raw data is available at their site. CRU has made all the data available that they are legally allowed to make public. They are a third party holder in many cases,and are not allowed to give up that data, no matter how many FOIA requests they get. The larger point is, if someone doesn't like CRU because they can't get access to all of the raw data (some of which was scratched on parchment in the 1800's), then pick another data set measuring the same variable. They all show the same thing.

If you want to see data, try the links from these pages:
Climate Data Links « Open Mind
RealClimate: Data Sources

Open and public debates has been done...a number of times. I don't see that one more time is going to matter, but we'll get more of it anyways. For many people the thought of spending time watching scientists debate the intricacies of atmospheric chemistry and physics is incredibly boring.

The IPCC , the US Climate Change Science Program reports, and other related national programs is where the chips fall. In some cases these synthesis reports, which are very conservative estimates of reality, are underestimating magnitude and pace of changes.

Besides which, I don't think I like the idea of science and related policy matters being left to the whims of the mob. Anyone who thinks "It's happened before" is a relevant point is clearly not up to par on very basic levels of understanding, to even grasp what the salient points are.


Funny you specificly mention NASA, as they're in the news today, being sued to
release data on this subject. Weird...

Debate has already been done with all the facts laid out on all sides...publicly, for
all to examine each other's data....without agendas? Nothing hidden or held back
or manipulated or massaged? Repeatable and verifable? I'm not knocking one side
or the other...any other...I just want to know that I'm not being manipulated
to fatten anyones pockets based on stupidity or lies...no matter which way this
thing plays out. Right now, I don't have have that feeling from any of the sides
on ths issue.

The idea of science and related policy matters being left to the whims of the mob,
if the mob will have to live with, and pay for, policies based n this information? I
think the 'mob' deserves more credit, assuming all the cards are on the table.

Nobody wants to swim in their own filth, or be lied to and taken advantage of.
I think the 'mob' deserves more credit and respect than it's being given.

You & I....all of us...are this 'mob.' I'll take the center until I see which way I have
to jump without anyone elses agenda. That's just me.
 
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AnnaG

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A warming cycle probably isn't fiction ... but it IS a cycle. The scam is in people trying to make profit from it. Their futile efforts may as well be attempts to halt tides and make morning come from the west - only folk would recognize the fraud then.
Trying to make a profit from global warming is a scam? How about trying to make a profit from global cooling? Better convict anyone involved in the heating or air-conditioning businesses then.
 

AnnaG

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Aren't both sides buying the science, and attempting to influence those that can
dictate policy for profit? Hasn't it been shown that both sides are complacent in
some pretty shady behavior?
Yes, to the first question. Um, I think you meant complicit, not complacent in the second question, but I think yes would be the answer there, too.

Perhaps now it's time to open up the raw data to both sides, so that the results
from both sides can be demonstrated as being repeatable and verifiable?
There is more than just that one source for climate data. I think all it would take is comparing all the data from all sources.
 
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Walter

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December 07, 2009
Go green? 1200 limos, 54 private jets converge on Copenhagen

Rick Moran

[FONT=times new roman,times]Well, if you're a delegate to the Copenhagen climate change conference and you going to demand that the rest of the world sacrifice in the name of global warming, that doesn't mean that you have to.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]We polis will never understand. It's hard work trying to save the world and our betters who are going to Copenhagen to decide the fate of the planet deserve every luxury our tax dollars can afford.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]That said, this might be a bit much, as the Telegraph's Andrew Gilligan explains:[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]On a normal day, Majken Friss Jorgensen, managing director of Copenhagen's biggest limousine company, says her firm has twelve vehicles on the road. During the "summit to save the world", which opens here tomorrow, she will have 200.[/FONT] [FONT=times new roman,times]"We thought they were not going to have many cars, due to it being a climate convention," she says. "But it seems that somebody last week looked at the weather report." [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Ms Jorgensen reckons that between her and her rivals the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfil the demand," she says. "We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden."[/FONT] [FONT=times new roman,times]And the total number of electric cars or hybrids among that number? "Five," says Ms Jorgensen. "The government has some alternative fuel cars but the rest will be petrol or diesel. We don't have any hybrids in Denmark, unfortunately, due to the extreme taxes on those cars. It makes no sense at all, but it's very Danish."[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]The airport says it is expecting up to 140 extra private jets during the peak period alone, so far over its capacity that the planes will have to fly off to regional airports - or to Sweden - to park, returning to Copenhagen to pick up their VIP passengers. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Some of those VIP's include Leonardo De Caprio, Desmond Tutu, and Prince Charles, who has taken time out from his busy schedule waiting for his mother to croak to attend.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]How anyone can possibly take these mountebanks seriously is beyond me.[/FONT]
 

countryboy

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Nov 30, 2009
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December 07, 2009
Go green? 1200 limos, 54 private jets converge on Copenhagen

Rick Moran

[FONT=times new roman,times]Well, if you're a delegate to the Copenhagen climate change conference and you going to demand that the rest of the world sacrifice in the name of global warming, that doesn't mean that you have to.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]We polis will never understand. It's hard work trying to save the world and our betters who are going to Copenhagen to decide the fate of the planet deserve every luxury our tax dollars can afford.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]That said, this might be a bit much, as the Telegraph's Andrew Gilligan explains:[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]On a normal day, Majken Friss Jorgensen, managing director of Copenhagen's biggest limousine company, says her firm has twelve vehicles on the road. During the "summit to save the world", which opens here tomorrow, she will have 200.[/FONT] [FONT=times new roman,times]"We thought they were not going to have many cars, due to it being a climate convention," she says. "But it seems that somebody last week looked at the weather report." [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Ms Jorgensen reckons that between her and her rivals the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfil the demand," she says. "We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden."[/FONT] [FONT=times new roman,times]And the total number of electric cars or hybrids among that number? "Five," says Ms Jorgensen. "The government has some alternative fuel cars but the rest will be petrol or diesel. We don't have any hybrids in Denmark, unfortunately, due to the extreme taxes on those cars. It makes no sense at all, but it's very Danish."[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]The airport says it is expecting up to 140 extra private jets during the peak period alone, so far over its capacity that the planes will have to fly off to regional airports - or to Sweden - to park, returning to Copenhagen to pick up their VIP passengers. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Some of those VIP's include Leonardo De Caprio, Desmond Tutu, and Prince Charles, who has taken time out from his busy schedule waiting for his mother to croak to attend.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]How anyone can possibly take these mountebanks seriously is beyond me.[/FONT]

Is this for real? If so, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic/ironic. Reminds me of the CEOs of the big 3 heading to Washington in their private jets to seek government handouts for their basic survival. Sad. Very sad.
 

Walter

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Earth's Next Last Chance
George Will
Sunday, December 06, 2009


WASHINGTON -- With 20,000 delegates, advocates and journalists jetting to Copenhagen for planet Earth's last chance, the carbon footprint of the global warming summit will be the only impressive consequence of the climate change meeting. Its organizers had hoped it would produce binding caps on emissions, global taxation to redistribute trillions of dollars, and micromanagement of everyone's choices.
China, nimble at the politics of pretending that is characteristic of climate change theater, promises only to reduce its "carbon intensity" -- carbon emissions per unit of production. So China's emissions will rise.
Barack Obama, understanding the histrionics required in climate change debates, promises that U.S. emissions in 2050 will be 83 percent below 2005 levels. If so, 2050 emissions will equal those in 1910, when there were 92 million Americans. But there will be 420 million in 2050, so Obama's promise means that per capita emissions then will be about what they were in 1875. That. Will. Not. Happen.
Disclosure of e-mails and documents from the Climate Research Unit in Britain -- a collaborator with the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change -- reveals some scientists' willingness to suppress or massage data and rig the peer review process and the publication of scholarly work. The CRU materials also reveal paranoia on the part of scientists who believe that in trying to engineer "consensus" and alarm about warming, they are a brave and embattled minority. Actually, never in peacetime history has the government-media-academic complex been in such sustained propagandistic lockstep about any subject.
The Washington Post learns an odd lesson from the CRU materials: "Climate scientists should not let themselves be goaded by the irresponsibility of the deniers into overstating the certainties of complex science or, worse, censoring discussion of them." These scientists overstated and censored because they were "goaded" by skepticism?
Were their science as unassailable as they insist it is, and were the consensus as broad as they say it is, and were they as brave as they claim to be, they would not be "goaded" into intellectual corruption. Nor would they meretriciously bandy the word "deniers" to disparage skepticism that shocks communicants in the faith-based global warming community.
Skeptics about the shrill certitudes concerning catastrophic manmade warming are skeptical because climate change is constant: From millennia before the Medieval Warm Period (800 to 1300), through the Little Ice Age (1500 to 1850), and for millennia hence, climate change is always a 100 percent certainty. Skeptics doubt that the scientists' models, which cannot explain the present, infallibly map the distant future.
The Financial Times' peculiar response to the CRU materials is: The scientific case for alarm about global warming "is growing more rather than less compelling." If so, then could anything make the case less compelling? A CRU e-mail says: "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment" -- this "moment" is in its second decade -- "and it is a travesty that we can't."
The travesty is the intellectual arrogance of the authors of climate change models partially based on the problematic practice of reconstructing long-term prior climate changes. On such models we are supposed to wager trillions of dollars -- and substantially diminished freedom.
Some climate scientists compound their delusions of intellectual adequacy with messiah complexes. They seem to suppose themselves a small clerisy entrusted with the most urgent truth ever discovered. On it, and hence on them, the planet's fate depends. So some of them consider it virtuous to embroider facts, exaggerate certitudes, suppress inconvenient data, and manipulate the peer review process to suppress scholarly dissent and, above all, to declare that the debate is over.
Consider the sociology of science, the push and pull of interests, incentives, appetites and passions. Governments' attempts to manipulate Earth's temperature now comprise one of the world's largest industries. Tens of billions of dollars are being dispensed, as by the U.S. Energy Department, which has suddenly become, in effect, a huge venture capital operation, speculating in green technologies. Political, commercial, academic and journalistic prestige and advancement can be contingent on not disrupting the (postulated) consensus that is propelling the gigantic and fabulously lucrative industry of combating global warming. Copenhagen is the culmination of the post-Kyoto maneuvering by people determined to fix the world's climate by breaking the world's -- especially America's -- population to the saddle of ever-more-minute supervision by governments. But Copenhagen also is prologue for the 2010 climate change summit in Mexico City, which will be planet Earth's last chance, until the next one.
 

darkbeaver

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I'm a denier and damn proud of it too. I'll be taking speaking engagements in grade schools soon trying to help save all the little brain damaged diseducated children who've been schooled by those bloody smarmy crooked scientists like Suzuki to believe that there's a polar teddy bear crisis and that we're not really going to freeze to death when we really are. They just couldn't figure a way to make off with the gold useing the steadily approching iceage. cough hack cough I'm shivering and I have a fever, I should have cooked that chicken maybe
 

Tonington

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Funny you specificly mention NASA, as they're in the news today, being sued to
release data on this subject. Weird...

Opportunism. NASA station data here, and the model code and information is here.

Here's NASA's Regina data:


Public debate has taken place, countless times. Is there such a thing as without agenda? We're humans, we're not perfect, and trying to get the perfect situation to know the perfect truth is perfectly unreasonable to believe will ever occur.

I think that the mob get too much credit. All cards are on the table already. Read the IPCC chapter 9- Understanding and Attributing Climate Change. You have to start somewhere, but asking for a utopian situation to make matters clear to everyone will never be workable. Who has the time to teach everything to everyone, on any subject? And consider that what 'everything' is to one expert is not the same as another.

You know this issue is politicized. We can't go back to when it wasn't. So how do you think it's possible to get any situation where no agenda is a factor? My agenda is to educate as many people as I can, or at least to provide an alternate explanation to those conspiracy theorists. Hoping that future generations might have the natural bounty and basic necessities that at the very least I enjoyed. I can't remove that. I don't think you could find anyone to debate this subject who can remove theirs. Climate scientists have agendas. Their counterparts have agendas. Politicians have agendas. Businesses have agendas. Tax payers have agendas. And all play a part.
 

AnnaG

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Me, too. Mine is that I want to satisfy my curiosity (Les is the same, too) and poke holes in the hypotheses of those that think they are poking holes in research. :D
 

VanIsle

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Nov 12, 2008
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I'm a denier and damn proud of it too. I'll be taking speaking engagements in grade schools soon trying to help save all the little brain damaged diseducated children who've been schooled by those bloody smarmy crooked scientists like Suzuki to believe that there's a polar teddy bear crisis and that we're not really going to freeze to death when we really are. They just couldn't figure a way to make off with the gold useing the steadily approching iceage. cough hack cough I'm shivering and I have a fever, I should have cooked that chicken maybe
My grandkids Christmas Concert was held tonight at their school. Whoever (whom?) was in charge had to destroy Christmas once again. The theme of the concert? Green Christmas! No "Jingle Bells" for example. Just songs changed around to suit "green". At a time when many many loggers are out of work on this Island, not a lot of thought went into the concert regarding familes and what some of us consider the true meaning of Christmas. To some, The birth of Christ and to some Family time complete with turkey and gifts. Not wrong to be "green" but does it even have to infiltrate a Christmas Concert? No wonder some people throw their hands up in frustration.
 

JLM

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My grandkids Christmas Concert was held tonight at their school. Whoever (whom?) was in charge had to destroy Christmas once again. The theme of the concert? Green Christmas! No "Jingle Bells" for example. Just songs changed around to suit "green". At a time when many many loggers are out of work on this Island, not a lot of thought went into the concert regarding familes and what some of us consider the true meaning of Christmas. To some, The birth of Christ and to some Family time complete with turkey and gifts. Not wrong to be "green" but does it even have to infiltrate a Christmas Concert? No wonder some people throw their hands up in frustration.

Yep, V.I. people are going nuts. My little 8 year old grand daughter attends Mission School here in Vernon- no Xmas concert there.............why? who knows? Hope it doesn't have anything to do with lots of different coloured skin there. In Grand Forks the kids always had a Xmas play/concert held at the high school.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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Trying to make a profit from global warming is a scam? How about trying to make a profit from global cooling? Better convict anyone involved in the heating or air-conditioning businesses then.

Is reason really a part of that statement?

...and the stuff that leaks from air conditioners punches holes in the ozone too....
 
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JLM

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Is reason really a part of that statement?

...and the stuff that leaks from air conditioners punches holes in the ozone too....

If the truth were known probably just the fact of the human animal walking on the planet is detrimental, we are breathing out CO2 and emitting heat.......hope I haven't screwed up your day................:lol::lol:
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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If the truth were known probably just the fact of the human animal walking on the planet is detrimental, we are breathing out CO2 and emitting heat.......hope I haven't screwed up your day................:lol::lol:

Not my day. I've been saying that all along - along with words like "natural earth cycle" and "snake-oil salesperson" ... and water vapour is a greenhouse gas.

Global warming never met the blizzard blowing outside my windows today :lol:
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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As I was walking back from the store a half hour ago, with that north wind blowing snow in my face.... I really was worried about global warming...really.....or maybe I was wondering....when it was gonna reach northern ontario:lol:
 
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