Was WWII about what we were told it was about?

[Vaessen]

Once again, the apologists for the Nazi's have spoken. I remember textbooks from 1952 onward, and they ALL spoke of over 6 MILLION Jews killed, along with about 6 million others. I have NEVER seen any textbook that claimed only 500,000 Jews were murdered.

There were over 30 death camps of various sizes. Many of them were filmed as they were liberated, and they discovered tens of thousands of corpses at most of them. They also discovered mass graves, with hundreds of thousands of bodily remains in them at several camps.

In addition, the Germans kept very detailed records, and their own records account for well over 12,000,000 people killed. Of course, not all of them were killed in the camps. A couple of million were murdered in Russia, by shooting them (this was considered to be too inefficient though).

Only a Nazi sympathizer would even attempt to claim that the Holocaust did not happen.

I'm not a Nazi sympathizer and I didn't claim that the holocaust didn't happen. I claim it's been exaggerated. I provided my reasons for believing such too. The math just doesn't add up. They're a very small sample size of people. If 6 million of them were killed it would be evident in the numbers.

again though, there were only 9.5 million European Jews, and 1.2 million stayed in Europe after the war. 5.8 million migrated to USA. Do the math, I ask anybody to do the math. It's BS. Not only was it not possible, manpower wise to slaughter 6 million Jews and have millions of people on 3 continents fighting the largest war in human history. If it happened how they said it happened, it would have been the single greatest cause for them to have lost the war, wasting manpower on that epic level. I just don't believe it. I believe they tried. I think they did what they could and as the ship was going down they killed as many as they could. i just don't think the number they present us is accurate. It still happened. 6 million is just a ridiculous number. Goebel, himself, would have likely used a smaller number just because people wouldn't have believed such crap.

I guess I missed your first post but yeah, if it was as ignorant as this one it should have been taken down. There are still quite a few survivors of the holocaust I will believe before your rantings. You yap about Aushwitz, but that was just the start. One of the main death camps was Birkenau. Not all of the 6 million deaths transpired in the ovens. Many were shot point blank, countless others starved to death. Who the f**k are you trying to protect?

Auschwitz-Birkenau Concentration Camp Complex --data and summary facts



He's a spammer and should be eliminated from the forum as such.

I'm not a spammer. Do you even know what spam is, you ignorant schmuck? I specifically said that I believed that not all of the deaths happened in ovens, thanks guys, you two making this about other things than what I've claimed because you have no basis for arguing with the FACTS.

This is a thread about how WW2 misinformation was spread. I brought up an example of a great exaggeration. you guys jump right into the usual "call him antisemitic. Ban him. He's a denier. He's a spammer." Your posts with your mischaracterization of my posts are the only examples of what needs to be stopped at this or any forum. Have your opinion. Let others have theirs. You have no right to make up what somebody else has for an opinion, we can all speak for ourselves. don't f***ing misquote me. don't put words in my mouth. You two should both be banned for calling me a Nazi sympathizer, saying I'm denying the holocaust, and calling for me to be banned when I haven't personally attacked anyone. All I did was make valid points that can be verified. If you aren't intelligent enough to debate those points, then concede them but don't try to make my argument something it's not as a ploy to try to "win" a debate by appealing to general sheople out there with your call him a racist tactics. That's something that just proves how pathetic and stupid you are.

Like all wars in the last 200 years or so WWII was a financial war with the big international bankers directing the show from way behind the scenes with the simple goal of driving every government and country into never-ending debt. Most of these banks were giving loans to both sides in an effort to continue the wars longer and increase the debt.

A little side note...in the mid 30's to early 40's a NY bank headed by the very politically connected father of George H W Bush was giving loans to none other than Hitler and the Nazis. No wonder the US didn't want to enter the war.

It always comes back to the Banksters.

Rothschilds gave loans to both sides during the war. Gave loans to a Nazi regime that clearly was against Jews, even though the Rothschilds are Jews, knowing that they were killing them. Then after the war, he donated much of the land he owned in Palestine to create the Israeli parliament, pretending to be a faithful Jew. They created Israel so guys like him could have immunity in stealing from and pillaging Africa. It always comes down to money. Always.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I'm not a Nazi sympathizer and I didn't claim that the holocaust didn't happen. I claim it's been exaggerated. I provided my reasons for believing such too. The math just doesn't add up. They're a very small sample size of people. If 6 million of them were killed it would be evident in the numbers.

again though, there were only 9.5 million European Jews, and 1.2 million stayed in Europe after the war. 5.8 million migrated to USA. Do the math, I ask anybody to do the math. It's BS. Not only was it not possible, manpower wise to slaughter 6 million Jews and have millions of people on 3 continents fighting the largest war in human history. If it happened how they said it happened, it would have been the single greatest cause for them to have lost the war, wasting manpower on that epic level. I just don't believe it. I believe they tried. I think they did what they could and as the ship was going down they killed as many as they could. i just don't think the number they present us is accurate. It still happened. 6 million is just a ridiculous number. Goebel, himself, would have likely used a smaller number just because people wouldn't have believed such crap.



I'm not a spammer. Do you even know what spam is, you ignorant schmuck? I specifically said that I believed that not all of the deaths happened in ovens, thanks guys, you two making this about other things than what I've claimed because you have no basis for arguing with the FACTS.

This is a thread about how WW2 misinformation was spread. I brought up an example of a great exaggeration. you guys jump right into the usual "call him antisemitic. Ban him. He's a denier. He's a spammer." Your posts with your mischaracterization of my posts are the only examples of what needs to be stopped at this or any forum. Have your opinion. Let others have theirs. You have no right to make up what somebody else has for an opinion, we can all speak for ourselves. don't f***ing misquote me. don't put words in my mouth. You two should both be banned for calling me a Nazi sympathizer, saying I'm denying the holocaust, and calling for me to be banned when I haven't personally attacked anyone. All I did was make valid points that can be verified. If you aren't intelligent enough to debate those points, then concede them but don't try to make my argument something it's not as a ploy to try to "win" a debate by appealing to general sheople out there with your call him a racist tactics. That's something that just proves how pathetic and stupid you are.



It always comes back to the Banksters.

Rothschilds gave loans to both sides during the war. Gave loans to a Nazi regime that clearly was against Jews, even though the Rothschilds are Jews, knowing that they were killing them. Then after the war, he donated much of the land he owned in Palestine to create the Israeli parliament, pretending to be a faithful Jew. They created Israel so guys like him could have immunity in stealing from and pillaging Africa. It always comes down to money. Always.

Here...let me be #3. You have no idea of what the truth is. Most experts assess the final tally at well over 6 million including Jews, those who protected them, and those who spoke out against the 'final solution'. Case in point - a good friend of mine whose mother had her father, uncle, and brother shot in front of her before her and her mother were sent to Aushwitz (she survived but her mother didn't)all because they tried to protect 2 Jewish workers on their farm. This was a good Roman Catholic German family.

The approximately 6 million comes from the fastidious records the Nazis kept in the camps but the real number will never be established because there are many unfound mass graves where hundreds and thousands were just shot and buried before this become too expensive and time consuming.

You claim the number of 500,000 but also reference a plaque that states in the millions....I think you are deluding yourself and trying to delude others with your denial of the events. If anything the story is underestimating the actual toll of human life not exaggerating it. Now grow up and get some real facts before posting anymore of your anti-semitic pro-Nazi BS!!!

 

[Corduroy]

Now you are being facetious. You could watch Last of the Mohicans if you need a refresher.

No, I'm being serious. Tell me about the Mohawks and the Algonquins. Who are they? Why does one side say the other were "bad Indians"?

Who is 'we'? Would,t you have to supply the various references to show that they are not real?

"I'm crazy as all ****. I come to my beliefs by bashing my head into a wall and sodomizing goats." - MHz November 19 2011.

Please supply the references to show that this quote is not real.

 

[Colpy]

Hey, my post was taken down, I think. I couldn't find it anyways. I don't think any of those things I said were ignorant enough to be taken down. The things that were quotes were clearly coloured red and could be seen as not my words.

To refresh: my point about WW2 and the info we hear being BS was that the holocaust story is a massive exaggeration. They claim 6 million Jews died in the holocaust. There were 9 million and change Jews living in Europe pre WW2. Let's just do the math. The population of Jews in the world is said to have actually increased between 1941-1948. And it was not a large sample size, only about 15 million. This can be explained easily because many Jews came forward after WW2 out of hiding and some came forward with their hands out for monetary reasons.

But looking into the numbers. 5.8 million European Jews migrated to the United States of America after WW2. 1.2 million Jews stayed in Europe. That's 7 million. 7 million subtracted from 9 and change means about 2-2.5 million Jews died in the war and death camps.

auschwitz itself, proves that the 6 million figure is a blatant lie, not even an exaggeration. There used to be a plaque there stating that nearly 4 million Jews killed there. There is now a plaque reading that about a million and a half people were killed there. So, the official plaque changes by a staggering 2.5 million, and the number that our blow hard media throws our way didn't change from 6 million to 3.5, no, it stayed the same, magically.

Also, Churchill had a Jewish American mother. In Jewish custom that makes him Jewish. They go maternal with that crap. This guy who any way you look at it, had extreme Jewish influence, he was tight with the Rothschilds, and he was a Jew himself, and pretended not to be for political reasons, yet after the war he writes about the war, trying to be a hero nuts, and in hundreds of pages of crap making himself into a hero even though he was just a chicken sh!t politician putting other people's kids in the line of fire, he didn't once mention the holocaust, Jewish suffering, or 6 million deaths. Why is that? It's clear that something happened at the death camps and that Jews were certainly targeted and slaughtered. But the truth is that hundreds, literally, hundreds of millions of people died in the war and because of the war, and so the 2 million or so Jewish deaths were actually just par for the course. Tell Europe about the poor Jews when their countries were in some cases, reduced to half of their size. About 50 times as many Christians died in the war as Jews. That's just a fact, and that's using the 6 million, trumped up, BS figure, that our Israeli lobby run media tells us happened.

Obviously you missed my first reply to you.

Saul Friedlander has written the definitive work on the Holocaust, in two volumes:

• Nazi Germany and the Jews: The Years of Persecution, 1933-1939, New York : HarperCollins, 1997.
• The Years of Extermination: Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939-1945, HarperCollins, 2007. Second Volume to the above.

Dr. Friedlander is actually a professor of history, and understands research methods, etc. Read these two books, then come back and talk to me.


Dr. Friedlander's best estimate of the Jewish deaths in the Holocaust is 5.7 million.


You need to provide sources for your idiotic propositions.......for example:

Who the hell told you 5.8 million Jews emigrated to the USA after WWII????


Actually, Jewish immigration to the USA between 1945 and 1952 was less than 150,000...........so YOU do the math.


Read, learn,. and stay away from the Jew-hater sites.

 

[DaSleeper]

Read, learn,. and stay away from the Jew-hater sites.

That's like asking a 9/11 tinfoiler to quit believing in holograms:lol:

 

[Cliffy]

Obviously you missed my first reply to you.

Saul Friedlander has written the definitive work on the Holocaust, in two volumes:

• Nazi Germany and the Jews: The Years of Persecution, 1933-1939, New York : HarperCollins, 1997.
• The Years of Extermination: Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939-1945, HarperCollins, 2007. Second Volume to the above.

Dr. Friedlander is actually a professor of history, and understands research methods, etc. Read these two books, then come back and talk to me.


Dr. Friedlander's best estimate of the Jewish deaths in the Holocaust is 5.7 million.


You need to provide sources for your idiotic propositions.......for example:

Who the hell told you 5.8 million Jews emigrated to the USA after WWII????


Actually, Jewish immigration to the USA between 1945 and 1952 was less than 150,000...........so YOU do the math.


Read, learn,. and stay away from the Jew-hater sites.

Dr. Friedlander. Couldn't possibly be biased though, right? Pro or anti Jewish sites: are there any that are not biased? Are there any sources that are neutral?

And yes, I am serious. My father was there and he did not mention anything about it. I never heard him mention Jews, pro or con., so I don't know but so far I have not found any information that is not biased.

 

[darkbeaver]

The Anti Semite slur is a worn out antique now. I love Semites myself especially the beautiful Palestinians. Oh I see the ever drafty "jew hater" slur just got used.

Libya was just "liberated" so was Iraq, these people were saved by the good guys. Many Semites were killed and crippled and left homeless in their demolished homes. Where are their Israeli kin. Some people scoff at the power of myth.

 

[Colpy]

Dr. Friedlander. Couldn't possibly be biased though, right? Pro or anti Jewish sites: are there any that are not biased? Are there any sources that are neutral?

And yes, I am serious. My father was there and he did not mention anything about it. I never heard him mention Jews, pro or con., so I don't know but so far I have not found any information that is not biased.

The man is a professor of History at UCLA. And a childhood survivor of the Holocaust, having been hidden from the Germans by Catholic nuns.

And YOUR CV?????

The idiot below claims 5 million plus Jews emigrated to the USA after World War Two.......

Absolute BS.

TOTAL emigration to the USA in the years 1947 to 1960 was 252,000 a year, for a total of less than 3.3 million.....of all ethnic types and from all areas.

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/cohn.immigration.us

He also claims Winston Churchill's mother was Jewish......

Absolute BS.

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/churchills-jewish-ancestry-not_08.php

He. of course, supplies no historical references...

Were I you, Cliffy, I would be VERY careful who I was allying myself with.....

 

[Cliffy]

The man is a professor of History at UCLA. And a childhood survivor of the Holocaust, having been hidden from the Germans by Catholic nuns.

And YOUR CV?????

The idiot below claims 5 million plus Jews emigrated to the USA after World War Two.......

Absolute BS.

He also claims Winston Churchill's mother was Jewish......

Absolute BS.

He. of course, supplies no historical references...

Were I you, Cliffy, I would be VERY careful who I was allying myself with.....

I wasn't allying myself with anybody. I'm neutral on the subject because I really don't know the truth on the matter. And I also do not recognize any race but the human race. I believe we are all brothers and sisters and find it difficult to swallow any sentiment that proposes any sort of separation. I am equally appalled with any group that oppresses another for whatever reason.

 

[Mowich]

I'm not a big history student but I do remember speaking to a retired WWII German Luftwaffe JU-52 Transport pilot who told me of many trips into Italy to pickup wooden crates of navigation instruments that had a General Motors stamp on the bill of lading (document of contents) and also hauling materials from Sweden in GE containers. Later, in the military I did learn the US carried on a secret trade with the AXIS powers all during the war. Then later attempted to conceal the facts. Many small parts and electronics items were being manufactured in the US probably under a "Defeat the Nazi's" banner.

How the Allied multinationals supplied Nazi Germany throughout World War II | libcom.org

But the truth is that hundreds, literally, hundreds of millions of people died in the war and because of the war, and so the 2 million or so Jewish deaths were actually just par for the course.

Do you have any idea of what 'par for the course' actually means? Wait that is a really stupid question for you so very obviously have no idea.

"Par for the course" is what is normal and acceptable for a particular situation.

There was absolutely nothing normal and acceptable about the Jews and others being specifically targeted for death by the Nazis.

 

[CDNBear]

I first became aware in the 60s when I discovered that I was taught that the Mohawk were good indians and the Algonquin were bad indians. Then I dated a French girl and she was taught the it was the other way around. So I started looking at history from many different perspectives and found that no one really agreed, that the various histories were only relevant from the tellers perspective. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that it is just opinion and propaganda. I have seen no evidence to convince me otherwise in all these years.

I was tought that the Iroquois were savages and the Wendat were peaceful hunter/gatherers. Although oral history tells a different story.

You could watch Last of the Mohicans if you need a refresher.

Watch a fictitious movie about Mohicans, Brits, French and Wendat, to learn about Mohawks and Algonquins?

He's a spammer and should be eliminated from the forum as such.

Sock puppet would be more appropriate.

 

[darkbeaver]

Never have the dead ruled the affairs of the living for so long. Winston had wealthy powerful sponsers. How else could you get to sport kill so many in two world wars.

 

[Goober]

I'm not a Nazi sympathizer and I didn't claim that the holocaust didn't happen. I claim it's been exaggerated. I provided my reasons for believing such too. The math just doesn't add up. They're a very small sample size of people. If 6 million of them were killed it would be evident in the numbers.
But looking into the numbers. 5.8 million European Jews migrated to the United States of America after WW2. 1.2 million Jews stayed in Europe. That's 7 million. 7 million subtracted from 9 and change means about 2-2.5 million Jews died in the war and death camps..

Another post was 500,000. On this post it is 2- 2.5 million. Problem with telling lies is trying to remember what lie you told the last time.

But we are used to this.
Bring us your dumb, your people in need of learning, those that are not educated in certain areas, the illiterate, those seeking facts and knowledge.

Please bring them to us and we shall endeavor to set you FFN straight.

I said 500 thousand. That's also the number that the Nazi's estimated they killed, along with another 500,000 or so Gypsies, gays, mongoloids, and the odd Christian. They think they killed a million or so people in their death camps, total.

You say Auschwitz could process 10,000 a day but it's far fetched to think they could round up, and process that many people every day. 6 million people is more people than what populates the Prairie provinces, it's as big as the GTA. I'm not saying that some days they didn't kill 10,000 people but I think that the 500,000 number is far more realistic, of course that doesn't take into account the ones that were not at death camps. They probably shot another half million or so Jews, that wouldn't surprise me.

I just think the logistics of transporting 6 million people to death camps and actually accomplishing killing them while having millions of troops on three continents and trying to sustain a huge war operation, is unrealistic. I think they would have if they could have but it's unlikely that they could have.

And look it up, most history books said about 500,000 Jews were slaughtered in the holocaust 30 years ago. The numbers were changed to show that it was impossible to know for sure but it could be between 500,000 and 2 million, and then that was upgraded to 500,000 - 6 million (maximum) and then after time went along the absolute maximum that was thought to be ridiculously high on completely unrealistic, became the spin number that they go with for effect now.

I just think that if people sit back and logically think of how difficult it would be, man power wise and logistically, they will come to understand that no matter how you look at it, 6 million people is a trumped up number that likely isn't anywhere near the truth.

This is your post noting 500,000 -

Never have the dead ruled the affairs of the living for so long. Winston had wealthy powerful sponsers. How else could you get to sport kill so many in two world wars.

Never has the World seen the mass murder on an industrial scale. Hitler was after 10's of million, Slavs and on and on.

The War was lost and Hitler knew he was losing the War And delaying the Russians while they could exterminate Jews was the priority
Send as many Jews, etc to the death camps. Trains needed to provide supplies to the troops were under the command of Eichmann and that meant kill as many as possible.Jews were the priority over supplies

The Nazi's kept excellent documents and records detailing there efforts to kill as many as possible.

 

[Bar Sinister]

I was disappointed the footlocker of toysoldiers wasn't shipped to Canada.

Actually a version of it was. My younger brother bought two sets of these. They were not exactly great quality, but we had fun with them anyway.

I'm not a Nazi sympathizer and I didn't claim that the holocaust didn't happen. I claim it's been exaggerated. I provided my reasons for believing such too. The math just doesn't add up. They're a very small sample size of people. If 6 million of them were killed it would be evident in the numbers.

again though, there were only 9.5 million European Jews, and 1.2 million stayed in Europe after the war. 5.8 million migrated to USA. Do the math, I ask anybody to do the math. It's BS. Not only was it not possible, manpower wise to slaughter 6 million Jews and have millions of people on 3 continents fighting the largest war in human history. If it happened how they said it happened, it would have been the single greatest cause for them to have lost the war, wasting manpower on that epic level. I just don't believe it. I believe they tried. I think they did what they could and as the ship was going down they killed as many as they could. i just don't think the number they present us is accurate. It still happened. 6 million is just a ridiculous number. Goebel, himself, would have likely used a smaller number just because people wouldn't have believed such crap.



I'm not a spammer. Do you even know what spam is, you ignorant schmuck? I specifically said that I believed that not all of the deaths happened in ovens, thanks guys, you two making this about other things than what I've claimed because you have no basis for arguing with the FACTS.

This is a thread about how WW2 misinformation was spread. I brought up an example of a great exaggeration. you guys jump right into the usual "call him antisemitic. Ban him. He's a denier. He's a spammer." Your posts with your mischaracterization of my posts are the only examples of what needs to be stopped at this or any forum. Have your opinion. Let others have theirs. You have no right to make up what somebody else has for an opinion, we can all speak for ourselves. don't f***ing misquote me. don't put words in my mouth. You two should both be banned for calling me a Nazi sympathizer, saying I'm denying the holocaust, and calling for me to be banned when I haven't personally attacked anyone. All I did was make valid points that can be verified. If you aren't intelligent enough to debate those points, then concede them but don't try to make my argument something it's not as a ploy to try to "win" a debate by appealing to general sheople out there with your call him a racist tactics. That's something that just proves how pathetic and stupid you are.



It always comes back to the Banksters.

Rothschilds gave loans to both sides during the war. Gave loans to a Nazi regime that clearly was against Jews, even though the Rothschilds are Jews, knowing that they were killing them. Then after the war, he donated much of the land he owned in Palestine to create the Israeli parliament, pretending to be a faithful Jew. They created Israel so guys like him could have immunity in stealing from and pillaging Africa. It always comes down to money. Always.

Actually the numbers regarding the Holocaust are relatively easy to determine. Almost all the nations invaded by Germany kept detailed birth records and had reasonably accurate census statistics. These documents usually listed the religions of the people filling them out. As a result we have a very good idea of how many people of the Jewish faith lived in certain areas of Europe before the war. All that needed to be done was to check on how many were still there at the end of the war. The Germans also helped in this process, but keeping incredibly detailed records of how many people they "processed" through their death camps. The Auschwitz complex alone accounted for the deaths of over a million people, and that is the bottom number.

The number six million seems accurate enough given that six million Jews who were alive before the war were no longer around after the war. It is doubtful that all of them died from natural causes.

 

[JLM]

Actually the numbers regarding the Holocaust are relatively easy to determine. Almost all the nations invaded by Germany kept detailed birth records and had reasonably accurate census statistics. These documents usually listed the religions of the people filling them out. As a result we have a very good idea of how many people of the Jewish faith lived in certain areas of Europe before the war.

Yep, six million is the figure I've been familiar with since I was a child. Until something more substantial comes up I think I will stick with that number before I take Vaessen's word of something different. :lol:

 

[Colpy]

Who is 'we'? Would,t you have to supply the various references to show that they are not real?
Perhaps something like this will make a person determined to examine claims rather than read and swallow, like you seem to be doing.

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.Sir Winston Churchill
British politician (1874 - 1965)

​

All the bears are in hibernation so no can talk to me.

Yep....the man had a great sense of humour.

Too bad you can't comprehend it.

 

[MHz]

Which work of his do you think best describes the horrors of the holocaust?

 

[Colpy]

Which work of his do you think best describes the horrors of the holocaust?

None.

Which kinda blows the theory that he (and others) used it as an excuse for World war Two out of the water, doesn't it?

 

[Cliffy]

The Brits, Canadians and the US among others refused to let the ship of fools land and take refuge of the Jews on board. The ship returned to Germany and the inevitable end ensued. This was done in full knowledge of the outcome because those countries did not want the Jews and would have had to, by association, agree with Hitler's intent. It is highly hypocritical of the west to condemn Hitler for what he did because we condoned it and/or refused to something about it. We did not fight the war to stop the slaughter of the Jews even though they knew it was going on. The war was fought for economic and political reasons, not humanitarian ones. Canada is just as guilty, as well as the Yanks and Brits, as Hitler was for what happened to the Jews, gays, Gypsies, etc. Fighting about the numbers of dead is just plain ridiculous. It is a vain attempt to deflect blame.

 

[Spade]

Noone knows the exact number of deaths in WW2, just as the exact numbers of casualties in subsequent wars are unknown.