Pirates......

[ironsides]

Sorry why do people fly planes into buildings again? :roll:

You can live in fear of them if you like, but life isn't about just living. That little bastion of terror can and should be wiped out. They created a desert there by depleting resources, lets make sure it stays a desert. One week warning then anybody left is a pirate or terrorist.

 

[JLM]

You can live in fear of them if you like, but life isn't about just living. That little bastion of terror can and should be wiped out. They created a desert there by depleting resources, lets make sure it stays a desert. One week warning then anybody left is a pirate or terrorist.

Good thinking- a couple of H bombs should do the trick! :lol:

 

[taxslave]

I don't ****ing believe it. Not one of you actually talked about the root causes behind Somali piracy. That country is on the brink...but you're here spouting fascistic nonsense about waging all-out war on those evil pirates.

For shame people.

The problem is socialist do gooders that won't let the military cure the problem. This is an area that the UN should be involved in, not pissing and moaning about perceived injustices to terrorists in Palestine.

 

[Unforgiven]

You can live in fear of them if you like, but life isn't about just living. That little bastion of terror can and should be wiped out. They created a desert there by depleting resources, lets make sure it stays a desert. One week warning then anybody left is a pirate or terrorist.

Fear has nothing to do with it. You can't wipe them out with what you have. It's not the place that makes the terrorist, it's ideology. You can't change that with a warning and carpet bombing. What you're talking about is genocide and good luck getting the permission or forgiveness for that. It isn't going to work so why waste time on it?
The only thing that would do once your plan got canceled half way done is create the ground work for someone to convince someone else that they're only path left is to kill as many Americans as possible. So they visit America and blow **** up in a terrorist strike. What advantage does that give to the average American? Iraq and Afghanistan are enough for now. Let's finish what's on our plate before begging for more.

 

[barney]

Tell me you are joking.

No, but I wish you were.

We tried to fix Somalia before.....remember?

Good example. Really gives weight to your cause.

It is an Islamic hellhole ruled by whatever tribal warlord has the most weapons this month.

That tragic state of affairs naturally being Somalia's fault.

The pirates even seize, and hold for ransom, aid cargoes of food.

There's a whole story behind the Aid situation over there (and impoverished states in general) and it goes way beyond mere piracy.

When one is attacking ships on the high seas and murdering people, you kill the unfortunate misunderstood sweeties.

Nothing else will do.

The fight is on.....we are just VERY late in defending ourselves.

"Defending ourselves"...right. And who said anything about pirates being sweeties?

BTW "fascistic" is not a word. At least spell your insults correctly.

Hmm, how very small of you to dwell on that. The use of the word wasn't meant as an insult, just a statement of fact; anybody of sound mind would describe that drivel as what it very clearly is. Start talking sense and my vocabulary will be more to your liking.

And perhaps you could explain how you would deal with people that murder defenseless retirees with boatloads of bibles???

I could, but I won't. Suffice to say it would be the product of reason, unlike some other "solutions" proposed in this thread.

Somalia is not 'on the brink', it has no functioning government.

Re-read that sentence and spot the contradiction.

If 30 to 40% of the pirates disappeared, the problem would start to go away.

Another gem...the pirates and the criminal activity that has flourished in that environment are the result of the problem, not its cause.

Admiral Gortney said piracy can not be ended through U.S. military action alone.

...but must be ended through military action nonetheless. Gotta love it: being contrarian without being contrary. A true art.

 

[ironsides]

What ideology do the pirates have? They found out that piracy makes more money than fishing plain and simple. They weren't terrorists, nor are the now. Just think of them as muggers, maybe killers. A time out just will not do and I don't care about stunting them psychologically. Either try them when caught or eliminate them. Either way society is made safer. Drive them from the seas then if you don't want another land war, let their own people take care of them when they get hungry.

This turning them lose as some countries now does after disarming them is lame why risk their lives for nothing.

 

[Colpy]

No, but I wish you were.



Good example. Really gives weight to your cause.



That tragic state of affairs naturally being Somalia's fault.



There's a whole story behind the Aid situation over there (and impoverished states in general) and it goes way beyond mere piracy.



"Defending ourselves"...right. And who said anything about pirates being sweeties?



Hmm, how very small of you to dwell on that. The use of the word wasn't meant as an insult, just a statement of fact; anybody of sound mind would describe that drivel as what it very clearly is. Start talking sense and my vocabulary will be more to your liking.



I could, but I won't. Suffice to say it would be the product of reason, unlike some other "solutions" proposed in this thread.




Re-read that sentence and spot the contradiction.



Another gem...the pirates and the criminal activity that has flourished in that environment are the result of the problem, not its cause.





.

Love it. Not a single solution, or suggestion of a solution.....just arrogance, ignorance, and plumb stupidity.

Welcome to left. No substance, not even a pretense of substance, simply a pretense to some secret higher level of understanding incomprehensible to the neanderthals of the right.

What drivel!

If you wish to enter into debate, O Wise One, you have to address the proposals offered in my initial post....or you have to offer some of your own.

Yes, I consider my ideas being called "Fascistic" or whatever by someone pretending to intellectual superiority to be insulting......

Now then Sonny, come down off your high horse and get into the debate. Show us the ideas, the intellect, the knowledge........that I know you don't possess.......just from what you have written....

Show us some substance.

Or STFU.

Let your education begin.

 

[ironsides]

Another gem...the pirates and the criminal activity that has flourished in that environment are the result of the problem, not its cause.





...but must be ended through military action nonetheless. Gotta love it: being contrarian without being contrary. A true art.

Barney, Barney, Barney if you feel there is another way to fix up Somalia, then get on a plane to Mogadishu and try. Nice dry climate, people hate everybody including each other. You cannot imagine the causes for piracy there, everything you can come up with is a cause. The terrain is worse than in Afghanistan to farm.

 

[BaalsTears]

What did Scipio Africanus do to Carthage?

 

[ironsides]

What did Scipio Africanus do to Carthage?

That is how Mogadishu looks now. :lol:

 

[TenPenny]

Re-read that sentence and spot the contradiction.

I suggest that you reread that sentence, then go get a dictionary.

 

[barney]

If you wish to enter into debate, O Wise One, you have to address the proposals offered in my initial post....or you have to offer some of your own.

What debate? You're getting near-unanimous support here.

I haven't addressed your "proposals" because I just find them so ludicrous. They are basically different variations of "kill 'em all!"

Yes, I consider my ideas being called "Fascistic" or whatever by someone pretending to intellectual superiority to be insulting......

Get over it.

Now then Sonny, come down off your high horse and get into the debate. Show us the ideas, the intellect, the knowledge........that I know you don't possess.......just from what you have written....

Frankly, I really wouldn't know where to begin. Do I talk about past US support for one of Africa's worst regimes or the counter-productiveness of aid shipments or the illegal fishing trawlers depleting the country's primary fishing zones and preventing fishermen from making a living or how about toxic and even nuclear waste being dumped in their coastal waters causing a major health crisis?

Simple answer: give Somali fishermen the means to sustain themselves and their families. Piracy dies down.

Considering that Western countries are the primary culprits behind Somalia's present state, I'd say that's a small price to pay for eliminating the piracy annoyance.

Problem is, that won't happen and the military option is quite obviously favoured by the US (the greatest culprit) because it has strategic interests in the region.


What I find amusing is that you make all this fuss over a few Yanks that decide to sail into what are world-renowned dangerous waters and get themselves killed, yet the fact that Somalis have a disaster zone for a country that easily rivals the most devastated parts of Africa and the world doesn't garner the slightest mention in your little display of outrage.

You cannot imagine the causes for piracy there, everything you can come up with is a cause.

I don't need to imagine them. The specific causes are quite clear and information on the topic is readily available.

The terrain is worse than in Afghanistan to farm.

Hence dependency on fish that are now being depleted by foreigners. That would be Cause #1 btw.


Here's a TIME magazine article that explains it in nice conservative terms that should suit you:

How Somalia's Fishermen Became Pirates - TIME

I suggest that you reread that sentence, then go get a dictionary.

You say they are without functioning government and yet, in the same sentence, given what you already know about the country, you say they are not on the brink (of total disaster). You're talking nonsense...which seems to be the dominant trend in this thread.

 

[Colpy]

What debate? You're getting near-unanimous support here.

I haven't addressed your "proposals" because I just find them so ludicrous. They are basically different variations of "kill 'em all!"



Get over it.



Frankly, I really wouldn't know where to begin. Do I talk about past US support for one of Africa's worst regimes or the counter-productiveness of aid shipments or the illegal fishing trawlers depleting the country's primary fishing zones and preventing fishermen from making a living or how about toxic and even nuclear waste being dumped in their coastal waters causing a major health crisis?

Simple answer: give Somali fishermen the means to sustain themselves and their families. Piracy dies down.

Considering that Western countries are the primary culprits behind Somalia's present state, I'd say that's a small price to pay for eliminating the piracy annoyance.

Problem is, that won't happen and the military option is quite obviously favoured by the US (the greatest culprit) because it has strategic interests in the region.


What I find amusing is that you make all this fuss over a few Yanks that decide to sail into what are world-renowned dangerous waters and get themselves killed, yet the fact that Somalis have a disaster zone for a country that easily rivals the most devastated parts of Africa and the world doesn't garner the slightest mention in your little display of outrage.




I don't need to imagine them. The specific causes are quite clear and information on the topic is readily available.



Hence dependency on fish that are now being depleted by foreigners. That would be Cause #1 btw.


Here's a TIME magazine article that explains it in nice conservative terms that should suit you:

How Somalia's Fishermen Became Pirates - TIME




You say they are without functioning government and yet, in the same sentence, given what you already know about the country, you say they are not on the brink (of total disaster). You're talking nonsense...which seems to be the dominant trend in this thread.

Interesting article from TIME ....thank you.

But.......you discredit yourself with knee-jerk anti-American rants. Read the history of Somalia.......the dominant western powers there were Britain and Italy, until the 1950s. Then the area, to its great misfortune, fell under the ifluence of the great socialist powers China and the USSR..............and the eventual rule of the socialist murderer Siad Barre. Eventually, that regime fell to rebellion and vicious tribal civil war.

The ONLY time the USA has become involved was as part of a UN HUMANITARIAN mission to allieviate starvation, tribal war, and the use of aid food as a weapon by Adid.........read Blackhawk Down to see how grateful the Somalis were as a nation.

Even the trawlers robbing the Somali coast have NOTHING to do with the USA.....so pull in your horns on that front, and you will gain some credibility.

Now, I have just finished reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Infidel . Her father was a leader of the rebellion gainst Barre.....and her book speaks about the overwhelming importance of tribal hatreds in the disintegration of that nation. You should read it. (Although it is NOT about Somali history, but about her drift away from Islam)

Now, as for pirates. If I am in my house, engaged in perfectly legal and ethical activities, and armed thieves break down my back door, I really don't give a rat's arse about how oppressed they are. You defend yourself, you do what is necessary. Same thing here, only worse, as these are Muslims that believe infidels are worse than worthless, and that it is not only ethical, but commanded by the Koran to murder all other religions except Christians and Jews. We will be run over by the fricken barbarians while lefty idiots moan, cry, and wring their hands over how awfully we've treated them.....that is simply stupid.

I read a book years ago by Robert Rourke, about safaris into east Africa........in the late 40s, his white hunter avoided Somalia....telling him "Nowhere in the world are the women so beautiful, nor the men so vicious".

The same is true today. You badly underestimate the power of tribal loyalty, hatred, and a culture of violence and never-ending ethnic war.

I would support a move to ban all other fishermen from the Somali economic zone........as if they are still fishing there! lol

 

[petros]

The arguements of crazy people.

 

[darkbeaver]

The world needs more pirates to control the plaque of fat people in fat little boats. The world is full to the brim with pirates in suits, isn't it? Piracy has been the soup of the day for my entire life. These little spiffs published by the big pirates about the little pirate are hilarious but disturbing indications of the miserable state of thinking in the west. Four people died while they were being rescued by uncle sams finest who likely offed them in the cross fire anyway. Four stupid people who failed to exercise common sense and you all rattle on like it was worthy of comment while the fate of the millions squeezed to death in Somalia is decided by people just like those unfortunate twits who broke formation and blundered to their deaths in a little boat the cost of which could have sustained hundreds of the wretchedly poor for years and years. Do not wonder at the causes of piracy we will all be familiar with them soon enough.

 

[Unforgiven]

Arrr yer be one salty dog fer a beaver.

 

[DaSleeper]

Arrr yer be one salty dog fer a beaver.

For that I recomend a 330 conibear:lol:

 

[mt_pockets1000]

Do not wonder at the causes of piracy we will all be familiar with them soon enough.

Wasn't that long ago when pirates ran the seas all up and down the east coast with Newfoundland being their home base.

"One of the most powerful and successful pirates of the seventeenth century arrived in Newfoundland during the summer of 1611. His name was Peter Easton and he has always been a folk hero in Newfoundland. A monument to him, erected by the Canadian government, stands at Harbour Grace today. Although the pirates had no sympathy for either poor or rich, they spent money freely and in this way some of their loot got into the hands of the poor. In any case, Easton was a symbol to them of the possibility of rebelling against a generally oppressive authority."

Legends: Pirates, Scandinavians, and Irish monks in Newfoundland - by Aunt Lou - Helium

 

[petros]

The world needs more pirates to control the plaque of fat people in fat little boats. The world is full to the brim with pirates in suits, isn't it? Piracy has been the soup of the day for my entire life. These little spiffs published by the big pirates about the little pirate are hilarious but disturbing indications of the miserable state of thinking in the west. Four people died while they were being rescued by uncle sams finest who likely offed them in the cross fire anyway. Four stupid people who failed to exercise common sense and you all rattle on like it was worthy of comment while the fate of the millions squeezed to death in Somalia is decided by people just like those unfortunate twits who broke formation and blundered to their deaths in a little boat the cost of which could have sustained hundreds of the wretchedly poor for years and years. Do not wonder at the causes of piracy we will all be familiar with them soon enough.

There is an unwritten rule in world travel; Never get further than yelling distance from the other white people.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I don't ****ing believe it. Not one of you actually talked about the root causes behind Somali piracy. That country is on the brink...but you're here spouting fascistic nonsense about waging all-out war on those evil pirates.

For shame people.

Go Sell Crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here. ;-)