Israeli settlements completely surround Jerusalem

[earth_as_one]

Actions speak louder than words. If the West bank belonged to Palestinians I doubt they'd let Israel build Jewish only colonies on their land. The West Bank effectively belongs to Israel, and if Palestinians in the West bank don't like it, the can talk to the pointy end of Israel's guns.

In 1967, before Israel launched their surprise attack on their neighbors, Palestinians could live anywhere in the West bank. Now they can only live in areas where Israel allows them to live and to pass from one zone to another they need Israeli permission.

Yes the Palestinian population has increased, but the amount of land they occupy becomes less and less by the day. Pretty soon the Palestinians in the West Bank will be just as crowded as the Palestinians in Gaza.

Palestinians are effectively Israeli prisoners from birth to death.

Like I said Colpy, you either believe in universal human rights or you don't. Universal human rights can't apply to Israelis and not Palestinians, otherwise they aren't universal.

 

[lone wolf]

Was there ever a right that didn't come hard won?

 

[earth_as_one]

By the way, Israel does not recognize any Palestinian rights to the West Bank. Israel can and does deny Palestinians living in the West Bank the ability to return to their homes if they leave.

Effective annexation: Israel now stamping passports of West Bank visitors “Judea and Samaria only

12/02/2012

Because the Palestinian Authority has no real control or sovereignty, anyone who wishes to go to the occupied West Bank can only do so with Israeli permission. This includes foreign visitors and thousands of Palestinians with third country passports who live or visit there.

Even though many foreign nationals live and work in the West Bank, there is no such thing as a work permit that allows them to work for Palestinian institutions or companies based in the occupied West Bank, or simply to live there securely.

So such people get Israeli “tourist” visas which they have to constantly renew and which are frequently arbitrarily denied.

Hundreds of Palestine solidarity activists challenging Israel’s iron grip on who can enter and leave the West Bank, have been expelled or denied entry over the past year.

It is not just ordinary people who are denied entry by the occupying regime, but even foreign government officials trying to meet with the Palestinian Authority.

This is an Israeli abuse that has even been documented by US diplomatic missions in the region.

Stamping passports “Judea and Samaria”

In the past, an Israeli visa meant that a foreign visitor or Palestinian with a foreign passport could roam throughout “Israel” and across the West Bank.

But since at least 2009, Israel began stamping passports of visitors to the West Bank with the words “Palestinian Authority only,” meaning that the bearer could only move within the occupied West Bank.

Now in a significant new development, Israel has begun stamping passports with the words “Judea & Samaria only.”​

Effective annexation: Israel now stamping passports of West Bank visitors

 

[petros]

Now in a significant new development, Israel has begun stamping passports with the words “Judea & Samaria only.”

Well isn't that cute?

 

[earth_as_one]

As far as Israel is concerned, the West Bank has officially been wiped off the map and replaced with Judea and Samaria.

 

[petros]

Can I insist on having my address changed to 1284 XXXX St., Regina NWT?

Your position is the injustice, genocide and inhumanity of the settlements around Jerusalem.

You keep bringing up genocide. How many israelis have been systematically eliminated to date?

 

[CDNBear]

Israeli citizenship is better than no citizenship, because being a second class citizen is better than being deported to Gaza as a non-citizen.

Nice spin.

Unfortunately it doesn't mesh with why they immigrate.

Do you have a map which shows the parts of Canada which are off limits to Canadians?

Do you have something that says there's a defacto state of war between Canadians and some other group?

Any news source that portrays Hamas as coming to power in Gaza by force without mentioning their unfulfilled democratic mandate, Abbas's use of violence to seize power in the West Bank or US/Israeli interference in The West Bank and Gaza which triggered a civil war is either incomplete, inaccurate or deliberately manipulative.

Anyone that ignores the fact that Hamas used violence to eliminate political rivals is being dishonest.

You keep bringing up genocide.

No, I keep pointing out that genocide was used to make the place they live in today, since EAO and the other three kept bringing it up.

They of course ignore that little tid bit of fact, and the questions I've asked as to why it's OK for them to live off the avails of genocide, injustice and inhumanity.

 

[earth_as_one]

Background on East Jerusalem

Since East Jerusalem was annexed in 1967, the government of Israel's primary goal in Jerusalem has been to create a demographic and geographic situation that will thwart any future attempt to challenge Israeli sovereignty over the city. To achieve this goal, the government has been taking actions to increase the number of Jews, and reduce the number of Palestinians, living in the city.

In 2010, the population of Jerusalem stood at 788,052: 504,179 Jews and others (63.9 percent) and 283,873 Palestinians (36 percent). About 59.6% percent of the residents live on land that was annexed in 1967 (39.3 percent of whom are Jews, and 60.7 percent Palestinians). With the Palestinians having a higher growth rate than the Jews, Israel has used various methods to achieve its goal:

Physically isolating East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank, in part by building the separation barrier;
Discriminating in land expropriation, planning, and building, and demolition of houses;
Revoking residency and social benefits of Palestinians who stay abroad for at least seven years, or who are unable to prove that their center of life is in Jerusalem;
Unfairly dividing the budget between the two parts of the city, with harmful effects on infrastructure and services in East Jerusalem.

Israel's policy gravely infringes the rights of residents of East Jerusalem and flagrantly breaches international law.

East Jerusalem | B'Tselem

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

 

[CDNBear]

Sorry, I must have asked you uncomfortable questions again, lol.

B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.

That really does poke in holes in a lot of your propaganda and demonization.

The funny part is, you don't even know it.

 

[darkbeaver]

Nice spin.

Unfortunately it doesn't mesh with why they immigrate.

Do you have something that says there's a defacto state of war between Canadians and some other group?

Anyone that ignores the fact that Hamas used violence to eliminate political rivals is being dishonest.

No, I keep pointing out that genocide was used to make the place they live in today, since EAO and the other three kept bringing it up.

They of course ignore that little tid bit of fact, and the questions I've asked as to why it's OK for them to live off the avails of genocide, injustice and inhumanity.

Foreign Minister of Israel: Admits Murder in Europe, Sex for Secrets



The former Foreign Minister of the Zionist State of Israel has admitted that she murdered scholars in Europe and was protected by MOSSAD for whom she worked. She also admits to having been a prostitute targeting persons in order to record the sex and use for bribery, manipulation or to obtain secrets and cooperation. ``I'd do it again...``

 

[CDNBear]

Foreign Minister of Israel: Admits Murder in Europe, Sex for Secrets



The former Foreign Minister of the Zionist State of Israel has admitted that she murdered scholars in Europe and was protected by MOSSAD for whom she worked. She also admits to having been a prostitute targeting persons in order to record the sex and use for bribery, manipulation or to obtain secrets and cooperation. ``I'd do it again...``

Ahh yes...

The Usual Suspects usual "Quick, look over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>" tactic.

 

[earth_as_one]

...Anyone that ignores the fact that Hamas used violence to eliminate political rivals is being dishonest....

...Hamas killed dozens to hundreds of Abbas militants and mercenaries in Gaza during the civil war. When the dust settled Hamas also abducted, tortured and murdered those who fought on behalf of Abbas. While they also arrested Abbas's political representatives, most were released on their word that they would not take up arms against Hamas.

While both sides committed atrocities during the civil war, Hamas tended to focus on military threats to their democratic mandate while Abbas focused on military and political threats to his dictatorship.​

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...tinian-why-mahmoud-abbas-s-7.html#post1686050

 

[CDNBear]

...Hamas killed dozens to hundreds of Abbas militants and mercenaries in Gaza during the civil war. When the dust settled Hamas also abducted, tortured and murdered those who fought on behalf of Abbas. While they also arrested Abbas's political representatives, most were released on their word that they would not take up arms against Hamas.

While both sides committed atrocities during the civil war, Hamas tended to focus on military threats to their democratic mandate while Abbas focused on military and political threats to his dictatorship.​

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...tinian-why-mahmoud-abbas-s-7.html#post1686050

I saw your dishonest spin.

The fact that you think they still have a democratic mandate, and their term has never started, screams all sorts of things about you.

None of them favourable.

 

[petros]

No, I keep pointing out that genocide was used to make the place they live in today, since EAO and the other three kept bringing it up.

They of course ignore that little tid bit of fact, and the questions I've asked as to why it's OK for them to live off the avails of genocide, injustice and inhumanity.

An attempted genocide just like my own culture which has been put through the attempted genocide meat grinder prior to and right alongside the Heebs in the previous century but you won't hear a Uke crying or bombing Russia for more than what he deserves. I'd jump at the opportunity to live there for a couple years to experience my roots without any animosity.

Oddly enough the same type of politial *******s who were killing both our cultues are the ones who decided to allow some respite and gave us some autonomy. Our battles haven't ended, today it's a paper and economic war that is being waged but we are fighting back using their tools against them.

Israel has a right to exist and so does Palestine. Israel doesn't have a culture (yet) but Palestine does, Israel has sovereignty, Palestine doesn't.

The only way this is going to be resolved is by both of them sucking up their pride, putting down the bullets and bombs, and finding a balanced solution by equality and respect through paper, pen and the rule of law.

The occupation simply can't go on any further and neither can the insurgency, and most importanttly the in fighting amogst both groups NEEDS to be resolved. Israel has it's far right wing nuts and so does Palestine and yet both are the most westernized people in the Middle East. Both have Starbucks for **** sakes.

The 1967 map gives them both enough to work with to gain a unified culture and sovereignty for both. If they worked together, there is hope for the entire Mid East, if they don't both are doomed and will both fall into the hands of the extremist wing nuts.

As for EAO, MHZ and goreObessed et al, it would do them good to look at other similar situations that have ended somewhat peacefully and gain some insight.


That is my 2 cents +GST. If there is anything you'd like to add or subtract from my POV, please feel free to do so.

 

[Just the Facts]

Israeli citizenship is better than no citizenship, because being a second class citizen is better than being deported to Gaza as a non-citizen.

Deported to Gaza? Palestinians are being round up and deported to Gaza now?

the colored in areas are the parts of the West Bank which are closed and restricted areas for Palestinians.

I find it interesting that you consider the West Bank as Israeli territory. Even I haven't gone that far. Yet. You are a trailblazer.

In any case, I can see at a glance that your map is BS, no research required. A just by looking at the meaninglessness of the legend, and B by seeing marked as "restricted" areas that I passed through freely without ever being questioned. Your map appears to include East Jerusalem as off limits to Palestinians. Very sloppy. Granted Jewish villages in the west bank are off limits to Palestinians, although even that is not clear cut. Palestinains are not excluded as a matter of national policy, it's more like the village is a gated community with resticted access. Just refer to the fate of the Fogel familly if you're lost as to why.

Again, I applaud your forward thinking in including Judea and Samaria as an integral part of Israel.

Do you have a map which shows the parts of Canada which are off limits to Canadians?

You really got me there!

However, as long as we're being ridiculous, yes!

 

[darkbeaver]

Ahh yes...

The Usual Suspects usual "Quick, look over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>" tactic.

You looked as usual. But your blind from bat****.

An attempted genocide just like my own culture which has been put through the attempted genocide meat grinder prior to and right alongside the Heebs in the previous century but you won't hear a Uke crying or bombing Russia for more than what he deserves. I'd jump at the opportunity to live there for a couple years to experience my roots without any animosity.

Oddly enough the same type of politial *******s who were killing both our cultues are the ones who decided to allow some respite and gave us some autonomy. Our battles haven't ended, today it's a paper and economic war that is being waged but we are fighting back using their tools against them.

Israel has a right to exist and so does Palestine. Israel doesn't have a culture (yet) but Palestine does, Israel has sovereignty, Palestine doesn't.

The only way this is going to be resolved is by both of them sucking up their pride, putting down the bullets and bombs, and finding a balanced solution by equality and respect through paper, pen and the rule of law.

The occupation simply can't go on any further and neither can the insurgency, and most importanttly the in fighting amogst both groups NEEDS to be resolved. Israel has it's far right wing nuts and so does Palestine and yet both are the most westernized people in the Middle East. Both have Starbucks for **** sakes.

The 1967 map gives them both enough to work with to gain a unified culture and sovereignty for both. If they worked together, there is hope for the entire Mid East, if they don't both are doomed and will both fall into the hands of the extremist wing nuts.

As for EAO, MHZ and goreObessed et al, it would do them good to look at other similar situations that have ended somewhat peacefully and gain some insight.


That is my 2 cents +GST. If there is anything you'd like to add or subtract from my POV, please feel free to do so.

Sounds like there should be some sort of peace process. Imagine if the world had thought of that forty years ago. We would have milk and honey flowing in the land of gentle pastures stuffed with fat sheep. Israel might develop an economy based on peace but who would listen to or pay a tiny unimportant peaceful country.

 

[petros]

Sounds like there should be some sort of peace process. Imagine if the world had thought of that forty years ago. We would have milk and honey flowing in the land of gentle pastures stuffed with fat sheep. Israel might develop an economy based on peace but who would listen to or pay a tiny unimportant peaceful country.

Israel wants Palestine's natural gas. It's within their best interests to avoid or delay peace for as long as possible.

Greed always wins over peace co-operation and logical thought.

 

[Cliffy]

“…Euro-americans in the United States can’t talk about Gaza, because we can't talk about Israel. Because we can’t talk about the fact that the world is not suffering from a Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but that the world is suffering from the fact that Europe has never been able to deal with it’s ‘Jewish Question’ without some sort of intense barbarity and horror from the Inquisition to the Holocaust. And that Europe ‘solved’ the problem by supporting the radical, terrorist, extremist Zionists and their mad plan to resettle the ‘homeland.’ We can’t talk about Israel because we can’t talk about Wounded Knee. Because we can’t talk about Sand Creek or Carlisle ‘Boarding School.’ Because we can’t talk about forced sterilization or small pox blankets or Kit Carson and his scorched earth policy in the Southwest. Because we have Andrew Jackson on our twenty dollar bill. Because we are one huge settlement on stolen land. We can’t talk about Israel because we are Israel.”
~ Winona LaDuke

 

[earth_as_one]

I saw your dishonest spin.

The fact that you think they still have a democratic mandate, and their term has never started, screams all sorts of things about you.

None of them favourable.

Talk about spin... How much clear can it be that CB's post claiming I ignore Hamas's violence or I ignore Hamas's violence directed at their rivals is a bold face lie?

I already posted one recent example where I pointed out that Hamas is a violent organization and has used violence against their rivals and I can point to dozens more. The fact is I don't support violence by anyone.

I am agnostic and don't support one religion or religious group over another. I believe in separation of Church and State, freedom of religion and universal human rights, justice and freedom. Based on that idealogy I cannot support the Zionist State of Israel, because of their violent ethnic cleansing, and the injustice and oppression they've opposed on the people who had the misfortune of living on land Zionists believe God gave to Jews. I support universal human rights, freedom and justice for everyone. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists...

Whenever I see oppression and injustice, I will speak out against it.

One group of religious zealots using violence to impose a state religion and take away rights and freedoms from others is not that different from another group of religious zealots doing the same thing. Which religion makes no difference. Whether its Zionist extremists who are currently cleansing the holy lands of non-Jews or Muslim extremists who would like to do the same back to the Jews.

My point has always been that Canada should not support war crimes and crimes against humanity. In this conflict, the Harper government is clearly supporting one side's criminals. I am speaking out against this, not only because its wrong to support war criminals, but because Harper's position is bad for Canada

I've posted enough information here for people to determine if Israel's leaders are guilty of ethnic cleansing or not. What you do with this information is up to you.

Silence = Tacit Approval

 

[DaSleeper]

Bull...