Harper Pledges to Scrap Young Offenders Act:

[Praxius]

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=813141

^ This is just a snippet of a larger report in regards to other party promises, but this one caught my eye:

..... Just an hour earlier and a few kilometres away, Harper was announcing that a re-elected Conservative government would scrap Canada's young offenders law and replace it with a tougher version under which youth who commit serious violent crimes would no longer be able to keep their names out of the news.

The new law would impose automatic, stiffer sentences for people 14 years of age or over who are convicted of serious violent crimes, such as murder or manslaughter. Upon conviction, the names of these individuals would be made public, Harper said.

Under the Tory proposals, judges would also have the discretion of publishing the names of young offenders who commit repeated minor offences. And it would be easier for prosecutors to apply for pretrial detention of youth charged with violent crimes.

"You cannot rehabilitate somebody unless you drive home to them the seriousness of very violent crimes,'' Harper said.

His announcement would effectively reverse a long-standing practice under which teens under the age of 18 are treated differently from adults when they come into conflict with the law because the emphasis is on rehabilitation rather than punishment.

"We need to, and will, restore balance to the young offenders law," Harper vowed.......

Sexual Assault was another listed as a serious offense.

Now on Global National as I was just watching it, some Youth Justice Act promoter argued that this wasn't the proper approach, and that Revenge and Punishment are not substitutes for rehabilitation.

Well clearly the Youth Justice Act has done a piss poor job in rehabilitation and perhaps this would be a better approach.

In my opinion, this is exactly what is needed.... however, that doesn't mean I'm gonna vote Conservative.

Opinions?

 

[Risus]

the young offenders act is not being scrapped, just modified...

 

[Praxius]

the young offenders act is not being scrapped, just modified...

"....re-elected Conservative government would scrap Canada's young offenders law and replace it with a tougher version...."

Sounds like they're scrapping it, not modifying it to me.

 

[L Gilbert]

Me, too. However, what the newsmedia says they will do may not be what the Cons actually said they'd do, and even then, the Cons said they would do this, that, and the other thing before and we are still waiting for some of these deeds. No different in that respect than anyone else that's gotten their mitts on the reins of gov't.

 

[Colpy]

I'm there.

We need a tougher Young Offenders' Act.

 

[Risus]

"....re-elected Conservative government would scrap Canada's young offenders law and replace it with a tougher version...."

Sounds like they're scrapping it, not modifying it to me.

ok, fine, its something tougher. i hope you are satisfied.

 

[Ron in Regina]

The Young Offender's Act, if it isn't scrapped, really needs to be modified. What we have
currently isn't working well. These "kids" might be victims in many peoples eyes, but the
victims of these criminals are also victims, and society as a whole is a victim of the current
revolving door style of justice that we currently have.

If you've ever been to court for something like a seatbelt ticket (arguing 'cuz you DID have
your seatbelt on, which is blue just like your jacket), and you have a surname in the latter
half of the alphabet, you'll see the penalties issues for much more serious crimes (like assault)
with a $50 victim surcharge and 10hrs of community service on a lengthy record, vs. $168
for a seatbelt ticket on a clean record. You'll see that the system isn't working.

For Young offenders on a not too serious first charge, yeah, show leniency and a stiff warning.
For Young offenders on a not too serious second charge, show not as much leniency this time.
For Young offenders on multiple and escalating charges, they've had their leniency already.....
For Young offenders on multiple and serious charges like rape, assaults, manslaughter, murder,
and so on and so forth, why are we showing so much leniency? Little consequences for serious
charges means little incentive to straighten out and fly right. Perhaps publishing the names of
serious violent young offenders (aside from giving their future potential victims some sort of a
heads up) might help to embarrass them towards leading a productive life, as the idea of "it takes
a village to raise a child" ideal might have some merit if the village knew what it was dealing with.

 

[Praxius]

ok, fine, its something tougher. i hope you are satisfied.

Not quite, but it'll do for now.

 

[Nuggler]

:angry3: .........Great Stuff !!

That's what we do when we really don't intend to address,
health
doctor shortages
poverty
homelessness

WE: rail on about law'n'order, n. young'uns who gotta lern respect.............fer the likes of the robber bastards who gave us free trade, offshoring, manu.jobs going south and east.

Yep, heave that ther 14 year old into the pen with the murderers and rapists, and throw away the key, by Jeesus, that'll teach em "respect"

Every ****ing election this ol tired horse gets trotted out, and people fall for it every time.

WE truly get the government we deserve.

unfortunately.

Even the freakin NDP are climbing on the law'n'order bandwagon this time round.

:x

 

[mabudon]

But printing the names could VERY well be a double-edged sword

I am all for harsh justice for heinous crimes, but to print the names of these little bastards might well lend a sense of accomplishment- if your life is so messed up that you will kill someone over property, territory or status at say 15, I doubt printing your name would be a deterrent in any way and would possibly even embolden folks who want SOME kind of recognition or "fame", even if it's as a monster

Having your name in 20 point font on the cover of the T.O. Sun would beat the hell out of spraying some crappy-looking little "symbol" on a mailbox after all

 

[darkbeaver]

I'm there.

We need a tougher Young Offenders' Act.

I agree, if you had been taken behind the woodshed and corrected in your youth you would perhaps have turned out almost human.:smile:

 

[missile]

on a different note: I would like to see the criminals named who sexually abuse their young children. As of now, to protect the younguns,they can't be named.

 

[Colpy]

:angry3: .........Great Stuff !!

That's what we do when we really don't intend to address,
health
doctor shortages
poverty
homelessness

WE: rail on about law'n'order, n. young'uns who gotta lern respect.............fer the likes of the robber bastards who gave us free trade, offshoring, manu.jobs going south and east.

Yep, heave that ther 14 year old into the pen with the murderers and rapists, and throw away the key, by Jeesus, that'll teach em "respect"

Every ****ing election this ol tired horse gets trotted out, and people fall for it every time.

WE truly get the government we deserve.

unfortunately.

Even the freakin NDP are climbing on the law'n'order bandwagon this time round.

:x

I don't think anyone is going to throw 14 year olds in the pen with adults.....they would still have to be held in lock-ups for young offenders....I would think.

I would have prefered to have seen the age of legal responsibility lowered to 16.......and that is it.

I gotta say, sometimes incareration is the only way........my nephew was repeatedly in trouble....drugs, B&E, theft, on and on.....nothing violent, but everything else. After several arrests, they sent him to Miramichi for 8 months (at 15 years old). When released, he was a different guy. Got a job, has worked ever since, a little discipline actually worked wonders for him. He is now 22, and doing OK.

 

[darkbeaver]

:angry3: .........Great Stuff !!

That's what we do when we really don't intend to address,
health
doctor shortages
poverty
homelessness

WE: rail on about law'n'order, n. young'uns who gotta lern respect.............fer the likes of the robber bastards who gave us free trade, offshoring, manu.jobs going south and east.

Yep, heave that ther 14 year old into the pen with the murderers and rapists, and throw away the key, by Jeesus, that'll teach em "respect"

Every ****ing election this ol tired horse gets trotted out, and people fall for it every time.

WE truly get the government we deserve.

unfortunately.

Even the freakin NDP are climbing on the law'n'order bandwagon this time round.

:x

You tell it like it is Nuggler. "Lets get tough on crime" is rolled out by the fascist pigs every election because it's a cheap hot button issue. If we bulldozed the goddamn malls and built gardens and farms we would have no problems with youth. They have only the guidance of the market which overrules thier parents with flashing lights and loud music and ****ty movies clog thier heads with unreality and phoney oportunitys.

 

[Praxius]

:angry3: .........Great Stuff !!

That's what we do when we really don't intend to address,
health
doctor shortages
poverty
homelessness

WE: rail on about law'n'order, n. young'uns who gotta lern respect.............fer the likes of the robber bastards who gave us free trade, offshoring, manu.jobs going south and east.

Yep, heave that ther 14 year old into the pen with the murderers and rapists, and throw away the key, by Jeesus, that'll teach em "respect"

Well clearly the current system isn't working on any of this.

Every ****ing election this ol tired horse gets trotted out, and people fall for it every time.

Well I'm not falling for it, because I'm still not voting Conservative.

WE truly get the government we deserve.

unfortunately.

Even the freakin NDP are climbing on the law'n'order bandwagon this time round.

:x

Well if they jump on the bandwagon and continue to do the other things they promise, then that's one more reason for me to vote for them.

 

[Unforgiven]

Hey that's interesting! So umm, what do we do not to rehabilitate young offenders?

 

[Tonington]

Releasing names = labeling. That means self-fulfilling prophecy for youngsters. So nothing gained by doing that.

Tougher sentences. Great, more time in crime school. Deterrence only works for rational people. Teenagers aren't generally rational, and those committing the violent crimes are definitely not rational. Deterrence doesn't work for them.

Then, three years down the road we'll look at the still climbing crime rate amongst youth and wonder what went wrong...

 

[Ron in Regina]

Releasing names = labeling. That means self-fulfilling prophecy for youngsters. So nothing gained by doing that.

Tougher sentences. Great, more time in crime school. Deterrence only works for rational people. Teenagers aren't generally rational, and those committing the violent crimes are definitely not rational. Deterrence doesn't work for them.

Then, three years down the road we'll look at the still climbing crime rate amongst youth and wonder what went wrong...

So pre-1974 or so when the names of young offenders where still published, anyone under
the age of 18 (or 16?) was ensured to become a carreer criminal??? Post-1974 when their
names couldn't be released, it ensured that young offenders wouldn't become career
criminals??? By publishing/releasing their names, perhaps their parrents, family, and peers
can help shame them onto the straight and narrow path. It would be a real consequence to
their actions. What we have now really isn't working.

 

[lone wolf]

I'm all for youth detention centres (we used to call 'em juvie hall or reform school) home investigations and spanking the parents if need be.

A crack on the ass wouldn't hurt the kid that much either....

 

[Ron in Regina]

Real restitution to the victims would make the victims become real people to the criminals also,
and not just another opportunist target. If a young offender doesn't have a job to pay restitution,
then they do community service and the equivalent pay (at minimum wage) goes directly to the
victim (and/or the victims insurance company) until the debt is paid in full. Again, it's a real
consequence to their actions. An incentive to not do this again.