Canada's treatment of Khadr should be

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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a) Studied by others as how to treat scumbags
b) Tossed in the 'who cares' department

or according to the Globe and Mail

c) A source of national embarrassment


anyway, from our friends at sda:

small dead animals: Next Time, Shoot to Kill


Next Time, Shoot to Kill

Oh, I don't know, maybe because the Pope didn't take up arms, commit war in civilian garb, or kill a medic while pretending to be wounded?
“There were, we are told, equal reasons why the current pope was not considered responsible for his membership in the Hitler Youth when he was precisely the same age (15),” he notes. “Certainly we did not try the Pope at Nuremburg, thank goodness, and it is fairly ludicrous that the US decided to try Omar Khadr as if he were an adult.”​
Should have just shot the traitor.


Canada's treatment of Khadr should be a source of national embarrassment - The Globe and Mail
 

wizard

Time Out
Nov 18, 2011
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... does it seem strange to anybody else that khadr got a mere eight years on a murder beef -- a murder of u.s. soldiers to boot!
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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If we subscribe to our stated ideals, and child soldiers should not be treated like regular soldiers, then we should be ashamed of ourselves.

If we do not believe in the concept of child soldiers, then we should formally say so.

I'd like our government to actually say where we as a nation stand on the idea. Does Harper have the cojones to actually say anything?

Next Time, Shoot to Kill

Oh, I don't know, maybe because the Pope didn't take up arms, commit war in civilian garb, or kill a medic while pretending to be wounded?
“There were, we are told, equal reasons why the current pope was not considered responsible for his membership in the Hitler Youth when he was precisely the same age (15),” he notes. “Certainly we did not try the Pope at Nuremburg, thank goodness, and it is fairly ludicrous that the US decided to try Omar Khadr as if he were an adult.”
Should have just shot the traitor.

So, let's hear your point of view. Is what you do at age 15 important, or not? Come on, tell us. If he's responsible for his actions at age 15, so then is the Pope. Tell us what you think.
 

BruSan

Electoral Member
Jul 5, 2011
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I believe the government screwed the pooch on this one.

The deal had already been cut and set in stone for him to return after pleading guilty to the charge. Canada had agreed to that. He is a Canadian citizen and entitled to some rights as such.

All of Mr. Toewes screwing around was for nought so he should have simply sucked it up and borught him home to serve his sentence. All that buffoonery served to do was shine a spotlight on our silliness.

He was a juvenile tried as an adult by decision of the U.S. The nature of his crime made that decision popular for the moment in both countries but now in hindsight makes us look like puppets and the U.S. look vindictive in their presecution of this case.

Doesn't anyone here remember Jacques Rose? Not the first time a murderer under the guise of political motivation killed someone and been repatriated back to Canada to live out his days. How is this criminal any different.

We fought tooth and nail to keep that nutbar ING in Canada until assured he wouldn't face the death penalty after raping, toturing, killing and filming the deaths of multiple women. Another black eye.

Our lack of consistency in the approach to these types of crimes is glaringly juvenile.
 

Goober

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Are we not familiar with the UN convention on child soldiers- We know that children in Africa are forced into rebel groups= commit atrocities including murdering their family member- and a host of other crimes- we support their reintegration back into the community- But that is in Africa and Oh well - Not happening here.

Are we also not venting our anger with his Family. I know I have no use for them - ask why they have not been charged with child abuse- why the Mother and Grandparents have not been deported from Canada.
Perhaps we should ask Canada's New Government.

They have done nothing on the points I have raised about the Mother and Grandparents.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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He should serve the balance of the 40 year sentence that he got at his trial.
Canada was not party to the plea agreement and as such does not have to live up to an agreement the Americans made with his lawyers.
 

TenPenny

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Are we not familiar with the UN convention on child soldiers- We know that children in Africa are forced into rebel groups= commit atrocities including murdering their family member- and a host of other crimes- we support their reintegration back into the community- But that is in Africa and Oh well - Not happening here.

Exactly. I guess because an American was the victim, we're supposed to toss out the child soldiers idea, and do whatever the US tells us to do.

Meanwhile, we'll excuse the Pope for his childhood war activities, because, well, because.
 

Serryah

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This was a kid who was taken by his father to the training camps. From a society and people where the Father/Male rules the roost, was there even a choice for him to stay or go? Then once at the camps, he's forced over and over again to listen to anti-American rhetoric and we're all surprised by what happened?

He did murder someone unfortunately, but considering the circumstances, and yes, he was a child soldier, it's no wonder he's considered a hero to some of the more fanatic Muslims. His treatment is proving exactly what they say about the west, especially the US. The US had a chance to actually alter some of that prejudice and they so dropped the ball on it.

In all honesty I hope he gets help to deal with the screw ups from Canada, the US and his own people have done to him. I doubt he'll ever be "normal" thanks to what he's been through, but it should be our duty to try to help him at least, since we pretty much didn't care beforehand. But IMO, we also shouldn't be surprised if, when he gets out, he goes sideways and does something and while we blame him, we should also look at how much blame we take ourselves for the situation we let happen.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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... does it seem strange to anybody else that khadr got a mere eight years on a murder beef -- a murder of u.s. soldiers to boot!

Apparently it wasn't proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he murdered anyone!
 

captain morgan

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This was a kid who was taken by his father to the training camps. From a society and people where the Father/Male rules the roost, was there even a choice for him to stay or go?

His older brother made the choice to not go... Omar made a different decision

He did murder someone unfortunately,

Unfortunately?

he was a child soldier,

He is a terrorist, plain and simple. Call him a child terrorist, but in no way was he ever a soldier

His treatment is proving exactly what they say about the west, especially the US. The US had a chance to actually alter some of that prejudice and they so dropped the ball on it.

The US (and Canada) gave him due process. The IED's he built offer no such opportunity

I doubt he'll ever be "normal" thanks to what he's been through, but it should be our duty to try to help him at least,

Our only 'duty' should be to construct the gallows for him

Apparently it wasn't proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he murdered anyone!

Wow.... I guess that makes 2 people that believe that there was no murder - you and Omar's mother
 

earth_as_one

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Jan 5, 2006
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Khadr (born Toronto Canada Sept.86) moved to Afghanistan in 1996 when he was 9 or 10 before the 1998 embassy bombings.

He lived in Waziristan (Pakistani tribal area adjacent to Afghanistan) in 2002. In June 2002 (age 15) Khadr received basic firearms training and became a child soldier. His group fought against the Americans in July 2002. Khadr's side fired first, then the compound was bombed, strafed, bombed again, strafed a little more. more strafing and bombing... then the infantry went in to the rubble to mop up. That's when someone threw the hand grenade which killed American Sgt Christopher Speer. Khadr was one of the few militants captured alive. He was severely wounded and near death.

During Khadr interrogations/torture, he confessed to every American accusation. I believe Khadr's claims that his interrogators/torturers used his severe injuries to inflict pain during questioning.

...At Bagram, he was repeatedly brought into interrogation rooms on stretchers, in great pain. Pain medication was withheld, apparently to induce cooperation. He was ordered to clean floors on his hands and knees while his wounds were still wet. When he could walk again, he was forced to stand for hours at a time with his hands tied above a door frame. Interrogators put a bag over his head and held him still while attack dogs leapt at his chest. Sometimes he was kept chained in an interrogation room for so long he urinated on himself...

...Before boarding a C-130 transport to Guantanamo, Omar was dressed in an orange jumpsuit and hog-chained: shackled hand and foot, a waist chain cinching his hands to his stomach, another chain connecting the shackles on his hands to those on his feet. At both wrist and ankle, the shackles bit. The cuffs permanently scarred many prisoners on the flight, causing them to lose feeling in their limbs for several days or weeks afterward. Hooded and kneeling on the tarmac with the other prisoners, Omar waited for many hours. His knees sent intensifying pain up into his body and then went numb...

...While he was at Guantanamo, Omar was beaten in the head, nearly suffocated, threatened with having his clothes taken indefinitely and, as at Bagram, lunged at by attack dogs while wearing a bag over his head. "Your life is in my hands," an intelligence officer told him during an interrogation in the spring of 2003. During the questioning, Omar gave an answer the interrogator did not like. He spat in Omar's face, tore out some of his hair and threatened to send him to Israel, Egypt, Jordan or Syria -- places where they tortured people without constraints: very slowly, ****ytically removing body parts. The Egyptians, the interrogator told Omar, would hand him to Askri raqm tisa -- Soldier Number Nine. Soldier Number Nine, the interrogator explained, was a guard who specialized in raping prisoners.

Omar's chair was removed. Because his hands and ankles were shackled, he fell to the floor. His interrogator told him to get up. Standing up was hard, because he could not use his hands. When he did, his interrogator told him to sit down again. When he sat, the interrogator told him to stand again. He refused. The interrogator called two guards into the room, who grabbed Omar by the neck and arms, lifted him into the air and dropped him onto the floor. The interrogator told them to do it again -- and again and again and again. Then he said he was locking Omar's case file in a safe: Omar would spend the rest of his life in a cell at Guantanamo Bay.

Several weeks later, a man who claimed to be Afghan interrogated Omar. He wore an American flag on his uniform pants. He said his name was Izmarai -- "lion" -- and he spoke in Farsi and occasionally in Pashto and English. Izmarai said a new prison was under construction in Afghanistan for uncooperative Guantanamo detainees. "In Afghanistan," Izmarai said, "they like small boys." He pulled out a photograph of Omar and wrote on it, in Pashto, "This detainee must be transferred to Bagram."

Omar was taken from his chair and short-shackled to an eye bolt in the floor, his hands behind his knees. He was left that way for six hours. On March 31st, 2003, Omar's security level was downgraded to "Level Four, with isolation." Everything in his cell was taken, and he spent a month without human contact in a windowless box kept at the approximate temperature of a refrigerator.

When he was not being tortured or held in isolation...

Follow Omar Khadr From an Al Qaeda Childhood to a Gitmo Cell : Rolling Stone

I don't support torture, let alone torturing 15 year old children.

I also don't believe testimony Khadr while under duress is reliable. People will say anything to make the torture stop, not necessarily the truth. Even if nuggets are truth are mined by these methods... the end result is we become no different that the people we despise.

At one time, the US and Canada used to criticize other countries for abduction and torture. Did anyone else notice our leaders no longer do this?

I'd like to see a judicial inquiring into Canada's handling of this case, which sounds like a screw up since Canada first became aware Khadr was in US custody.

I'd like to hear Khadr's personal testimony in a court of law rather than his testimony obtained by torture.

Khadr should not be set free until a qualified Canadian mental health authority declares Khadr is not a threat to public safety.
 

captain morgan

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I don't support torturing 15 year old children.

I'm certain that medical personnel/providers around the globe don't support the presence of grenade-totting terrorists (young, old or in between) in those areas where they are attempting to operate.

Just a hunch


I'd like to hear Khadr's personal testimony in a court of law rather than his testimony obtained by torture.

Good point: It's a known fact that the accused never lies on the stand.

Khadr should not be set free until a qualified Canadian mental health authority declares Khadr is not a threat to public safety.

As long as they publish his where abouts - I can get behind that
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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This is a strange way of determining who is a child soldier...

The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Article 38, (1989) proclaimed: "State parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of 15 years do not take a direct part in hostilities." However, people who are over the age of 15 but still remain under the age of 18 are still voluntarily able to take part in combat as soldiers.

People who HAVE NOT attained the age of 15 years. He did attain the age of 15.
 

TenPenny

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In that case, he's responsible for his actions, if he was 15 and the UN limit is 'not 15'.

Puts a whole different spin on those apologizing for the Pope being a Nazi at 15, but that's a different issue.
 

EagleSmack

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I guess Khadr being 15 shoots holes in the child soldier thing. However the Khadr supporters will ignore international law on this one I am sure.

Puts a whole different spin on those apologizing for the Pope being a Nazi at 15, but that's a different issue.

Let Israel do a "snatch and grab" and try him in Tel Aviv.