Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Video Shows Israeli Commando Executing American

By: My Catbird Seat

Tags:
Original posting:
The Israeli military attempted to confiscate and erase the photographic and video evidence of its brutal asault on the Mavi Marmara aid ship on Memorial Day. But it turns out that digital images can often be recovered after erasure, and can be put on small memory sticks that can be hidden in nooks and crannies of luggage. So some images are in fact surfacing.
The most damaging is a film of an Israeli soldier kicking an American citizen while the latter is on the ground,and then executing him. This film completely refutes the rightwing Israeli government’s narrative of besieged lightly armed troops haplessly fending off naked aggression on the part of the aid workers. The video, which has not been confirmed, is now at Youtube:

This post, is the culmination, of the height of the stupidity and dependence upon it, to support an ideology, not move forward towards peace. There is nothing worth refuting in this thread, that hasn't been completely proven wrong a dozen times, a dozen times over.

So instead, I'm just going to start dissecting the spin for those that obviously have no idea how to do any real investigating or research. Lets examine the spin shall we...

1, Furkan is a Turkish citizen. Noby in the family is even disputing the reports that their ties to the US are "limited". This reporting of him being a US citizen, is simply for the purposes of trying to incite the US, and recruit more useful idiots from the US.

2, The video evidence is less then stellar. Yet the conclusion is, that's when Furkan was "executed by gin fire". "5 bullets" has been the usual reported number of rounds used to kill him. Even though the weapon circled and shown in the video, is incapable of firing single countable "bullets". As the word "bullets" is defined.

3, In that video, we see an shotgun being used. Now I know how hard it is for some of you to grasp this. But a shotgun can fire rubber rounds. Not bullets, but slugs. There is no confusion about what they look like and unless we're talking about him being examined by a Doctor from the far side of the moon. It is plainly obvious as to the damage they do when they come into contact with the human body. Especially at close range.

4, There is no censored video's, no leaking of footage. Al Jazeera had live feeds off the boats all through the sailing, boarding and the trip to Ashdod. Just because it makes it sound cloak and daggerish, doesn't mean you should lie to misrepresent the truth.

5, It's a blog! Who get's their news and facts from a blog?

This is undoubtedly being touted as fact in countless forums and watercooler conversations by people so bereft of critical thought, or commonsense, that anything that remotely supports their position, not the need for peace, will be used to justify their hate. From here to Istanbul.

Pathetic, dishonestly halts the peace process. Lying, stretching, twisting and spinning the facts to support your position, because you need to justify your hate, contempt or whatever, does nothing but prolong the suffering of every party.
 
Last edited:

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
What they will do is force Israel to re-occupy Gaza.........and Palestinians will die in the hundreds.

If the Israelis were smart, they would do it now.

But, if the blockade is broken, arms will flow into Gaza, and they will be forced to do it later.

I'm all for them doing it NOW, and thumbing their noses at the world.

But I was born defiant. :)

Sounds like you've bought Israeli propaganda

Netanyahu: If ships were allowed to sail to Gaza without inspection as flotilla organizers have demanded, nothing could stop Iran from sending high-level weapons to Hamas in Gaza, said Netanyahu.
When you can't defend your actions because they are ridiculously undefendable, then a common tactic is to defend yourself against something else more defendable or change the focus of the debate.

Since Israel knows it would be impossible to defend preventing food and medicine from reaching hungry and sick people, they change the focus.

Effectively there are two blockades here. One legitimately blocks military material and is defendable. The other illegitimately blocks humanitarian aid, food, medicine and is undefendable.

Missiles from Iran and fresh food from Turkey are not the same thing. It is possible to block military material from entering Gaza and not block humanitarian aid.

Israel has the right to board ships looking for military material. If they find any they can divert the ship to an Israeli port. If all they find is humanitarian aid, they have no legal right commandeer the ship. The rest of the world gets this. Only a few people in Canada and the US have been duped by this propaganda tactic. Even Israelis know their blockade of humanitarian aid is unlawful:

B'Tselem - The siege on the Gaza Strip: 1.5 million people imprisoned

Since this propaganda technique works so well with Canadians, the Conservatives should use it. Anytime someone criticizes them for irresponsibly and frivolously building their $2 million artificial lake inside a building few people will see (undefendable), they should counter the criticism, by saying that they have every right to ensure the safety and security of foreign leaders and dignitaries (defend yourself against something else).
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Sounds like you've bought Israeli propaganda
As apposed to the sane truth filling your posts?

When you can't defend your actions because they are ridiculously undefendable, then a common tactic is to defend yourself against something else more defendable or change the focus of the debate.
A tactic you use constantly.
Since Israel knows it would be impossible to defend preventing food and medicine from reaching hungry and sick people, they change the focus.
Really?

Effectively there are two blockades here. One legitimately blocks military material and is defendable. The other illegitimately blocks humanitarian aid, food, medicine and is undefendable.
Which is why they don't block that.
Missiles from Iran and fresh food from Turkey are not the same thing. It is possible to block military material from entering Gaza and not block humanitarian aid.
True, which is why they search all in coming cargo. Glad you finally agree.

Israel has the right to board ships looking for military material. If they find any they can divert the ship to an Israeli port. If all they find is humanitarian aid, they have no legal right commandeer the ship.
Accept for a negotiated right under a treaty. You seem to miss those facts a lot.

The rest of the world gets this.
That's right, which is why all they do is pay lip service to it. If they truly thought they had the law on their sides, they would have imposed a military action on Israel years ago.
Only a few people in Canada and the US have been duped by this propaganda tactic.
The one where you think all of Gaza is starving to death?
Even Israelis know their blockade of humanitarian aid is unlawful:

B'Tselem - The siege on the Gaza Strip: 1.5 million people imprisoned
You can keep saying it, but you guys might want to get Palestinian news services to join the propaganda war, lol...

æßÇáÉ ÝáÓØíä Çáíæã ÇáÅÎÈÇÑíÉ - ÚÏÓÉ "ÝáÓØíä Çáíæã" ÊáÊÞØ ãÔÇåÏ ÇÓÊÚÏÇÏÇÊ ÇáÛÒíæä áÚíÏ ÇáÇÖÍì ÇáãÈÇÑß

Since this propaganda technique works so well with Canadians, the Conservatives should use it.
I agree. But who wants a bunch of half wits running around believing everything spoon fed them and never learning to do any real research?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Some see it as a states contest with halfwits and terrorists, some see it as a struggle for survival of a race, some want their religion to prevail no matter the cost. It's just war though, perpetual lies, perpetual blood, cha ching cha ching cha ching.
When will the pro genocide posters admit that criticism of Israel is illegal in their eyes? Certainly their frantic efforts here and elsewhere to justify and or hide the recent despicable actions of Israel is prime indication of morbid fear of discovery and justice. It must be horrible to be terrorized like that, by your own mind and your own elders. Free Palestine now.
 
Last edited:

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
212
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Some see it as a states contest with halfwits and terrorists, some see it as a struggle for survival of a race, some want their religion to prevail no matter the cost. It's just war though, perpetual lies, perpetual blood, cha ching cha ching cha ching.
When will the pro genocide posters admit that criticism of Israel is illegal in their eyes? Certainly their frantic efforts here and elsewhere to justify and or hide the recent despicable actions of Israel is prime indication of morbid fear of discovery and justice. It must be horrible to be terrorized like that, by your own mind and your own elders. Free Palestine now.
Geez, Beave..... Without the smokescreen it would all be just more run-of-the propaganda. This way, there's some claw-sharpening "my-side-good-everybody-else-bad" rhetoric in it....
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
That doesn't seem to be an over abundance of food for 1.5 million people. Puts my own fridge to shame though.

Israel has admitted that they keep the nutrient levels near the red line when using UN guidelines. If the people are to be under fed that is the job of Hamas.

As far as I know that 'easing' that Israel did (potato chips and a few other things) is the whole of what they will ever change. The other 1995 items will remain forbidden forever.

The real point of my post to you. specifically. You mentioned that the whole affair involves many documents. The Nations that have apron strings to Britain also share certain documents, such as the Magna Carta. With those right being applied globally would not Palestine have also been granted those same freedoms and protection once they came to be 'protected' by British guns?

South Africa should be a living example of what not to do when taking control of a native population who are not strong enough to resist invasion. Rights were denied to only a selective few, oddly enough the majority when counting individual heads.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Geez, Beave..... Without the smokescreen it would all be just more run-of-the propaganda. This way, there's some claw-sharpening "my-side-good-everybody-else-bad" rhetoric in it....

I hear you. Sure the my side syndrome is always there in any human conflict, this kind of crisis management by spin the desks makes their fear audible, and the high pitched whining just screams panic. I like it this way though, naked hate and fear, all the cards face up, nobody has to guess anymore. Everyone has to line up and be counted. It's that counting that has been impeded until now by the smoke and mirrors. The count will go ahead and nothing will stop it. Natural justice at work. The evolution of crisis and the life span of bull**** meet head to head, guess which will win? Only a wide theatre of war can provide more urgently needed fog for the agents of chaos. Gradually the futility of nutrality where fanaticism rules becomes apparent. The fanatics thrive on the oppositions indecisivness. I think.
 

Venytanion

New Member
Jun 11, 2010
1
0
1
This is an interesting opinion by Amitakh Stanford. The only chance for peace is a two state solution. Both the Palestinian state and the Israeli state need to have a seaport and continuous borders. The neighbouring muslim nations should think about granting some land to the Palestinians. However, now we are getting to the crucial part, which is Jerusalem. Jerusalem needs to be either wholly in Palestine or wholly in Israel. A "Berlin Wall" will not work, there would be continued friction and threats of war. Both Israelis and Palestinians are religious, so they should be open to an unconventional solution:

Keluar #9 - O Jerusalem, Take Heed

O Jerusalem, take heed. The current situation in Israel is untenable; there is an unending conflict between the Palestinians and the Jews. Jewish inhabitants distrust the Palestinians, and vice versa. The age-old struggle between them has cost many lives, much hardship and untold sorrow. The conflict has generated tremendous anger, hatred and distrust – forcing them to live under a single umbrella has proven to be a formula for unending friction.

. . .

Jerusalem is a major sticking point in regard to a two-state solution, which affects not only the parties, but peace in the region. Both sides have long-standing reasons to be inflexible regarding the city. Both sides have long historical, cultural and religious reasons for their intransigence regarding Jerusalem. This has led many people to insist that the two-state solution have a shared Jerusalem. That is, severing Jerusalem in twain, part to one nation and part to another, or granting co-ownership of the city to both nation states. Are either of these proposals wise?

The twentieth century saw what happened when secular powers divided up Berlin into sections. The situation was so bellicose that the Berlin Wall was erected to section off the city. For decades, the Wall divided the people and caused tremendous misery until it was finally demolished.

The same mentality of erecting “Berlin Walls” is very active in modern-day Israel, as is seen by the walled-off sections of the West Bank. Fencing off sections of Berlin did not work, and it should not be encouraged in Jerusalem. Further, if there are national borders running through the city of Jerusalem, it will guarantee that there will be continued friction and bloodshed in the city.

It is understood that neither party wants to relinquish all rights to Jerusalem, but, in reality, to have lasting peace in the area, is there any other choice? I suggest that there is not. Many centuries of conflict support my position. Therefore, in my opinion, Jerusalem should either be wholly within the nation of Israel or wholly within the newly created Palestinian state. To accomplish this, one side or the other would necessarily have to relinquish Jerusalem voluntarily, if it is to be settled amicably. It should be realized that the side that vacates Jerusalem should be amply compensated for it when boundaries for the two newly-formed nation states are drawn.

Clearly, both parties’ claims to Jerusalem are heavily based on religious grounds. If neither side will voluntarily relinquish the city, then, after solemn prayers, a lot should be cast over which nation state will house Jerusalem. Those who sincerely believe in the Divine should accept that the lot will result in the Divine’s will being carried out.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
212
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Why?? UN181 said they could keep their existing land, keeping them from lodging any grievances with the ICC hasn't stopped that will for justice.

Those in exile should have legal claims to the land they lost. If it's right for one it's right for the other.

I vote for a District of Columbia solution for Jerusalem.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
It is even more right for the Palestinians as they were in possession of land . Did the Jews save their tax receipts from Ancient Rome to show they belong?
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
It is even more right for the Palestinians as they were in possession of land . Did the Jews save their tax receipts from Ancient Rome to show they belong?
Come out of the deep end - you are losing the ability to process thoughtful questions - quick like a Bunny now.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Jerusalem is and will remain entirely Israeli, with freedom of religion for all.

Israel will not surrender a square foot, nor should they. In my opinion there are two areas outside negotiation: Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
212
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Jerusalem is and will remain entirely Israeli, with freedom of religion for all.

Israel will not surrender a square foot, nor should they. In my opinion there are two areas outside negotiation: Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.

Golan Heights? In my experience, it was like California without air conditioning in a place where everyone wants to kill you and the cops are crookeder than the bad guys. Anyone who really wants it is truly nuts, in this ol' truck driver's opinion....
 
Last edited:

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Lets not forget that the Vatican also has a claim on the city of Jerusalem.




AMMAN - Minister of Foreign Affairs Salah Bashir met with ambassadors of five permanent member states in the UN Security Council, the EU, Arab and Islamic countries and called on them to deploy their ties with Israel to urge it to stop any unilateral measures in Jerusalem that would change the legal situation of the holy city, especially with Israel's intention to rebuild the bridge linking Bab Al Magharbeh to Al Haram Al Sharif.
Bashir met Thursday with the Lower House's Arab and International Affairs Committee to brief them on Israel's plans in Tal Al Magharbeh that seeks to change the cultural, Arabic and Islamic features of the holy city, the Jordan News Agency, Petra, reported.
The minister said Jordan, after becoming aware of Israel's scheme in this regard, rejected the plan and considered it a unilateral measure which is completely rejected by international resolutions that indicate Jerusalem is an occupied territory and Israel has a legal obligation to facilitate the work of Jordan in preserving the holy sites.
http://www.jordantimes.com/?news=10224

 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Canada: Legitimizing Israeli Terrorism

by Yves Engler / June 10th, 2010 (3)
Early in the morning of May 31 on the international waters of the Mediterranean Sea, nine people were killed and dozens more wounded when Israeli soldiers raided a flotilla of ships carrying 10,000 tonnes of humanitarian supplies and more than 600 activists to the Gaza Strip. The activists were trying to break Israel’s three-year blockade of Gaza, which has reduced food and medicine entering the tiny coastal territory to a fraction of what is needed.
Governments around the world strongly condemned Israel’s actions. Turkey’s prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, called the raid “an act of inhumane state terrorism”.
United Nations secretary general …
(Full article …)
 

Downhome_Woman

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2008
588
24
18
Ontariariario
Agreed ... but who can argue with fanatic entitlement?
And which one is the fanatic? Seems there are fanatics on both sides ...

Israel doesn't have time to kill their own people, they're busy killing Muslims.
Ummm ... what about the voting Muslim population of Israel - how are you factoring them into your 'they're busy killing Muslims' statement?
 

Kathie Bondar

Kathie Bondar
May 11, 2010
230
1
18
Calgary, Alberta
Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

I wouldn't mind ads like this IF they were true.

There is nothing that pisses me off more than being lied to.

YouTube - Keep Israel Safe
Certainly, there must be some exceptions, but the majority of Jews spread out in countries all over the world are Jewish first, meaning allegiance to Israel, citizens of their host country the second, maybe. Certainly they enjoy the economic benefits that they then can share with Israel. It is not easy to be an independent Jew. There are pressures from the Jewish communitity, cajolins, threats even, to conform.
I changed countries twice, each time making a commitment to my new country. Guess what? It made me a cosmopolitan.

Jerusalem is and will remain entirely Israeli, with freedom of religion for all.

Israel will not surrender a square foot, nor should they. In my opinion there are two areas outside negotiation: Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.
Of course, and all tourists dollars pouring into Jewish pockets. Who do you think you are kidding?
 

Downhome_Woman

Electoral Member
Dec 2, 2008
588
24
18
Ontariariario
Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

There is no greater crime than the apartheid state of Israel and there are no smaller men than their defenders. Israel is the greatest collection of liars, thieves and murderers ever assembled. Destroying Israel won't solve all the worlds problems but it will solve most of them. I enjoy their discomfort entirely. No friend of Israel is a countryman of mine.
OK - the whole, 'There is no greater crime than the apartheid state of Israel ' thing? In apartheid South Africa, Africans couldn't vote and were relegated to townships. In Israel Arabs vote, have access to the same healthcare, school system etc ... and can live where they want. Apartheid? I don't think so. Find a better word.