“Wokeness” in Canada and elsewhere…

[Ron in Regina]

"Eventually, according to Nipper, Krolczyk asked to focus on a different topic, with Nipper even offering to extend the deadline."

48 hours before the project was due from what I understand.

Well what the fuck is her issue then? The topic she chose got a failing grade, the prof gave her a reason why and gave a chance to change that.

The 48 hours before the project was due being told it had to be scrapped and she was to start over on a different topic for the project would have been part of “the fuck” was her issue there.

The Prof gave her the reason that her using the term biological woman was outdated and exclusionary and racist, on the topic of Trans-Woman in Woman’s Sports competition. Should the Student have changed Trans-Woman to Woman & Biological Woman to Cis-Woman to be more inclusive and more modern and non-racist or whatever. That sounds like that was part of “the fuck” was her problem also.

Doesn’t sound like the Gender Studies Teacher in the Gender Studies Coarse offered the Student alternative non-outdated gender terms that that particular teacher found acceptable…but the Student sounds like a junior-TERF-in-training anyway so screw her.

The prof is the one that dictates what's approved or not on the bases of the course.

Just like Jordon Peterson in his field in the courses he taught. I hear you. You’d also support Mr. Peterson in a similar situation in the courses he taught then right?

The prof decided that using "Biological Woman" was not proper terminology for the subject the student was debating.

Gender Studies. What is the proper terminology for a biological woman in a gender studies coarse anyway? Cis? Cis-Woman? Cis-ter?

And in reality it's not because Trans women are still biological women (in that their gender is part of their biology as it is for everyone else), but suggesting that as a term leads down a hugely debative topic.

Ahhh…ok. Here we are again. Exact same questions about mixing terminology.

Are gender and biology interchangeable terms? They use to be, but are they still?

Isn’t Gender how you feel & biologically what you are? If someone is “gender fluid” and that switches throughout the day (or whatever)…does their biology also switch throughout the day (or whatever?)?

Student has nothing to complain about.

Apparently she did, and apparently the school, once the media picked up on this situation, had a different teacher grade that exact report that she wrote….& she didn’t get a zero but an “A” somehow. That’s pretty queer if there was nothing to complain about.

Though I do find it funny those who support the student would likely not be doing so if this was not involving trans issues.

Same. Would this student be dismissed so flippantly if this wasn’t involving a trans issue infringing into a non-trans situation (?) being biological men gendering as woman (temporarily, permanently, or intermittently) to compete against woman (that didn’t choose to be women) in woman’s sports which was the topic of her report?

What is this was a geography coarse but the teacher was a “Flat-Earther” and gave anyone who used outdated terms like “Globe” or “Sphere” a zero in the course because it was exclusionary and biased against the teacher’s perspective and damn the torpedoes?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Funny , you’ve come a long way baby has morphed into you’ve come a long way baby boy . Who needs biological women anyway .

Don’t you mean Birthing Person as you’re alluding to what in darker days was called a Mother?

For some reason I think you are fighting a loosing battle . Maybe best to retreat , regroup and try a different approach . Cancelling woman is not working .

She may be on the right side of the debate, and you, or I, might be on the wrong side. Only time will tell, regardless of your or my personal opinions or beliefs.

 

[Serryah]

Okay, I just want to state that I personally don't care that the student used "Biological woman". I really don't care. But without seeing what she wrote, whether it was the right term to use or not, I don't know.

I'll repeat it later, but papers of argument for a topic, papers that are used to express opinions, papers that are written to present how a student sees a thing, should NEVER be graded and factored into a student's grade per say. Rather, WHAT the student says should not. How they said it, how they presented it, that's fine. Language used and whatnot, no. But that's just me. Anyway, moving on.

48 hours before the project was due from what I understand.

And? Was that because of the prof waited, or the student waited?

The 48 hours before the project was due being told it had to be scrapped and she was to start over on a different topic for the project would have been part of “the fuck” was her issue there.

And was given an extension to complete a different topic. Seeing as this also happened to me back when I was in school, again, what's her issue? She had a chance so...

The Prof gave her the reason that her using the term biological woman was outdated and exclusionary and racist, on the topic of Trans-Woman in Woman’s Sports competition.

Well that's an opinion, sure. What is a "Biological Woman" then? And I think, because that question is a loaded question, is why the prof may have said 'no' to using the term.

Should the Student have changed Trans-Woman to Woman & Biological Woman to Cis-Woman to be more inclusive and more modern and non-racist or whatever. That sounds like that was part of “the fuck” was her problem also.

No, see above.


Since we don't know the content of her argument for her paper, not sure if Cis would have applied either.

Doesn’t sound like the Gender Studies Teacher in the Gender Studies Coarse offered the Student alternative non-outdated gender terms that that particular teacher found acceptable…but the Student sounds like a junior-TERF-in-training anyway so screw her.

"Although Nipper said she agrees classrooms should be places for debate and discussion, that ends when "you are, intentionally or unintentionally, participating in a systemic harm of some kind." She cited transphobia and white supremacy as examples.

Similar incidents had occurred in the past, said Nipper, who has taught at UC since 2021. When a student uses "an outdated terminology," Nipper said she feels it is necessary to correct those mistakes. "Not a zero for the course," Nipper clarified, "a zero for an assignment."

"I will happily regrade," Nipper said. "You are not going to have any late penalties."

But always, Nipper said, she underlines why a rewrite is necessary.

"This is unacceptable based on the community, the marginalized individuals that are at stake, and also the foundations of the course.""

Don't know why you're calling the student a junior TERF in training. Did you read something more on this I haven't?

If the student didn't take the prof up on the offer - to correct or to rewrite - that's on the student, not the prof.

Just like Jordon Peterson in his field in the courses he taught. I hear you. You’d also support Mr. Peterson in a similar situation in the courses he taught then right?

So similar situation with JP? Sure.

But JP never had a similar situation to this.

And he left being a prof before he could dig his hole that deep and became the wackadoo he is now.

The two are not comparable, though to you I suppose they are...?

Gender Studies. What is the proper terminology for a biological woman in a gender studies coarse anyway?

What is a "biological woman"?

Ahhh…ok. Here we are again. Exact same questions about mixing terminology.

Oh probably.

Are gender and biology interchangeable terms? They use to be, but are they still?

I think it depends on how you view gender.

Isn’t Gender how you feel & biologically what you are?

See above. Personally, I don't think "feel" is the appropriate term to associate with Gender, but that's what is often used. To me gender is more than a "Feeling".

I mean, do you "Feel" male? How do you know what male "Feels" like?

If someone is “gender fluid” and that switches throughout the day (or whatever)…does their biology also switch throughout the day (or whatever

This is one of those instances where people say feel, and it's more complicated than that. From personal experience, when I have a day where masculine is more to what I'd associate with, it's more than just feeling it. It's also actions, how I can view some things, even my reactions to some things. Gender-fluidity is complicated to explain, I think, but that's just me. Maybe others have an easier time of it.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong and if ever officially diagnosed, I may find I'm not gender fluid at all but something else all together.

As for biology changing - no though times I wish it would. It'd make the dysphoria a hell of a lot easier.

Apparently she did, and apparently the school, once the media picked up on this situation, had a different teacher grade that exact report that she wrote….& she didn’t get a zero but an “A” somehow. That’s pretty queer if there was nothing to complain about.

Or the student was given an A to just shut up those looking to argue about it.

Or it's like anything else, what one person sees, reads or experiences may be different to someone else. Prof A might not like it, prof B does, so both grade appropriately.

This is an example of why I detest papers, analysis and such being used by educators to "Grade" a student; because everything like that is all based on whether a prof agrees or not, or the opinion of profs at the time. If the point of papers like this is to present an argument to try and show understanding and to try and "Change the mind" of someone (hypothetical or otherwise) then language used shouldn't be counted against the person. So that the student used "Biological woman" shouldn't have had her paper graded 0 regardless of the prof's personal opinion.

Same. Would this student be dismissed so flippantly if this wasn’t involving a trans issue infringing into a non-trans situation (?) being biological men gendering as woman (temporarily, permanently, or intermittently) to compete against woman (that didn’t choose to be women) in woman’s sports which was the topic of her report?

Not sure what you're trying to suggest here, because what you're saying... is what her report was about?

So I'll just take the first part; would the student have been dismissed so flippantly (? do you know it was flippant?) if this wasn't involving a trans issue infringing into a non-trans situation?

I don't know. I'd have to look at the assignment the prof gave, the reasons for it, and read what the student wrote.

What is this was a geography coarse but the teacher was a “Flat-Earther” and gave anyone who used outdated terms like “Globe” or “Sphere” a zero in the course because it was exclusionary and biased against the teacher’s perspective and damn the torpedoes?

Okay, legitimate question.

First it's not likely a prof of geography would be a flat earther, BUT this is hypothetical, so...

Short answer? Depending on how the assignment was made and the student's paper, sure, the prof might be entirely in their rights TO award a 0.

 

[pgs]

Don’t you mean Birthing Person as you’re alluding to what in darker days was called a Mother?

She may be on the right side of the debate, and you, or I, might be on the wrong side. Only time will tell, regardless of your or my personal opinions or beliefs.

Why I told her/him/we/they to regroup and try again .

 

[petros]

48 hours before the project was due from what I understand.

The 48 hours before the project was due being told it had to be scrapped and she was to start over on a different topic for the project would have been part of “the fuck” was her issue there.

The Prof gave her the reason that her using the term biological woman was outdated and exclusionary and racist, on the topic of Trans-Woman in Woman’s Sports competition. Should the Student have changed Trans-Woman to Woman & Biological Woman to Cis-Woman to be more inclusive and more modern and non-racist or whatever. That sounds like that was part of “the fuck” was her problem also.

Doesn’t sound like the Gender Studies Teacher in the Gender Studies Coarse offered the Student alternative non-outdated gender terms that that particular teacher found acceptable…but the Student sounds like a junior-TERF-in-training anyway so screw her.

Just like Jordon Peterson in his field in the courses he taught. I hear you. You’d also support Mr. Peterson in a similar situation in the courses he taught then right?

Gender Studies. What is the proper terminology for a biological woman in a gender studies coarse anyway? Cis? Cis-Woman? Cis-ter?

Ahhh…ok. Here we are again. Exact same questions about mixing terminology.

Are gender and biology interchangeable terms? They use to be, but are they still?

Isn’t Gender how you feel & biologically what you are? If someone is “gender fluid” and that switches throughout the day (or whatever)…does their biology also switch throughout the day (or whatever?)?

Apparently she did, and apparently the school, once the media picked up on this situation, had a different teacher grade that exact report that she wrote….& she didn’t get a zero but an “A” somehow. That’s pretty queer if there was nothing to complain about.

Same. Would this student be dismissed so flippantly if this wasn’t involving a trans issue infringing into a non-trans situation (?) being biological men gendering as woman (temporarily, permanently, or intermittently) to compete against woman (that didn’t choose to be women) in woman’s sports which was the topic of her report?

What is this was a geography coarse but the teacher was a “Flat-Earther” and gave anyone who used outdated terms like “Globe” or “Sphere” a zero in the course because it was exclusionary and biased against the teacher’s perspective and damn the torpedoes?

Why are you arguing with a crazy person?

 

[Ron in Regina]

I try to debate to find different perspectives, & sometimes it’s harder to wrap my head around things than others, but it’s good mental exercise.

It’s something I do when time permits, and I learn many sides of a story this way, or at least try to, and different people pull information from different sources, so this keeps me from reading multiple news stories from different sources on the same topic to try and sort out the miss information from the disinformation from the cisinformation… as there’s usually at least three sides to every story.

I don’t always post unless it’s on the topic that interests me, or it appeals to my sense of humour, or genuinely raises questions even on the topic that’s outside of my zone.

I don’t have a dog in the hunt with respect to the gender thing, but I am genuinely trying to sort it out, mentally, and wrap my head around it. Gender feels on any given day, but it’s not not quite not that either (?) so maybe it’s just terminologies and semantics behind not understanding someone else’s viewpoint at this point.

I do have an issue with teachers and school boards, deciding what a parent needs and doesn’t need to know about their children….And that’s why I’m participating in this thread at times.

 

[petros]

You cant debate with someone who keeps changing terms and definitions.

 

[Ron in Regina]

That does make a tough. That’s part of the reason why a couple pages back I tried to sort out definitions, because for all, I know we’re on the same side of a debate without realizing it, without having definitions of the terms. Maybe that was the other similar thread… I don’t recall at this point.

With definitions, you can find common ground, or not, but at least you know if you do or don’t.

 

[petros]

You wontt get the same answer twice. The reason she hates me? I disagreed when she called the soup "freaks of nature". My response was there's gotta be an evolutionary advantage to the occasional gender switch.

Good luck and take notes.

This is anecdotal but ALL the toms boys that hung out in my group are now the best mothers that never left their men.

 

[Serryah]

I do have an issue with teachers and school boards, deciding what a parent needs and doesn’t need to know about their children….And that’s why I’m participating in this thread at times.

Put it to you this way.

If a kid is abused at home, a teacher notices it, and approaches the kid about it. The kid, trusting the teacher, confides in them what is going on. They say "don't tell mom/dad cause they'll get worse."

By law, the teacher does have to report child abuse, right?

But how do they do this without breaking confidence of the kid? Because the moment a teacher breaks that confidence, NO KID is going to trust that teacher after the fact.

The idea of pronouns and a name are not as extreme, but still along the same line. In the end, if a teacher tells a parent against the wishes of the kid, that teacher has lost ALL respect of the kids in their care that they can be trusted. If THAT happens, then any other kid with issues at home will never confide in that teacher again.

In both situations, the teacher is being required - at least in NB - to involve guidance councilors and/or therapists/psychologists to try and resolve the situation. That at least is a middle ground.

But for a teacher to arbitrarily go against the wishes of the kid risks much more to that kid AND all others, than finding other solutions, or at least respecting the wishes of the kid involved.

If a parent is decent with their kid, they likely already know even if the kid hasn't said a word yet.

If a parent doesn't know and the kid rightly fears telling them, what right does a teacher have to get involved directly into the situation by telling a parent "Hey, your kid goes by she now, not he, and her name is Jennifer." That should NOT be up to a teacher to do.

 

[petros]

The school is not a parent or legal guardian who in the end is the chief.

If you want trans rights, you need to respect parent rights because the people giving you trans rights are parents. They can and will take your rights.

Its a brickwall.

 

[Dixie Cup]

Put it to you this way.

If a kid is abused at home, a teacher notices it, and approaches the kid about it. The kid, trusting the teacher, confides in them what is going on. They say "don't tell mom/dad cause they'll get worse."

By law, the teacher does have to report child abuse, right?

But how do they do this without breaking confidence of the kid? Because the moment a teacher breaks that confidence, NO KID is going to trust that teacher after the fact.

The idea of pronouns and a name are not as extreme, but still along the same line. In the end, if a teacher tells a parent against the wishes of the kid, that teacher has lost ALL respect of the kids in their care that they can be trusted. If THAT happens, then any other kid with issues at home will never confide in that teacher again.

In both situations, the teacher is being required - at least in NB - to involve guidance councilors and/or therapists/psychologists to try and resolve the situation. That at least is a middle ground.

But for a teacher to arbitrarily go against the wishes of the kid risks much more to that kid AND all others, than finding other solutions, or at least respecting the wishes of the kid involved.

If a parent is decent with their kid, they likely already know even if the kid hasn't said a word yet.

If a parent doesn't know and the kid rightly fears telling them, what right does a teacher have to get involved directly into the situation by telling a parent "Hey, your kid goes by she now, not he, and her name is Jennifer." That should NOT be up to a teacher to do.

I'm afraid that even if you involve a psychologist/therapists, they are also "woke" and will not do the child any good. In fact, they'll do more harm. The medical associations are a major part of the problem which is why parents are fighting back. If the child is experiencing a mental health issue, there's no where to go without the "trans" being part of it even if that's not the issue and I would suspect in MOST cases, that's what it is and has nothing to do with being "trans." I worry about our kids because they are the most affected. As an adult, I could care a less what you do with your body but our kids are in danger as far as I can see with all the garbage being spewed about "transgenderism." Children should NEVER be part of that equation until they've reached the age of consent - period!!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Put it to you this way.

If a kid is abused at home, a teacher notices it, and approaches the kid about it. The kid, trusting the teacher, confides in them what is going on. They say "don't tell mom/dad cause they'll get worse."

By law, the teacher does have to report child abuse, right?

But how do they do this without breaking confidence of the kid? Because the moment a teacher breaks that confidence, NO KID is going to trust that teacher after the fact.

The idea of pronouns and a name are not as extreme, but still along the same line. In the end, if a teacher tells a parent against the wishes of the kid, that teacher has lost ALL respect of the kids in their care that they can be trusted. If THAT happens, then any other kid with issues at home will never confide in that teacher again.

In both situations, the teacher is being required - at least in NB - to involve guidance councilors and/or therapists/psychologists to try and resolve the situation. That at least is a middle ground.

But for a teacher to arbitrarily go against the wishes of the kid risks much more to that kid AND all others, than finding other solutions, or at least respecting the wishes of the kid involved.

If a parent is decent with their kid, they likely already know even if the kid hasn't said a word yet.

If a parent doesn't know and the kid rightly fears telling them, what right does a teacher have to get involved directly into the situation by telling a parent "Hey, your kid goes by she now, not he, and her name is Jennifer." That should NOT be up to a teacher to do.

Well, if it's the movies, Arnold Schwarzenegger, a cop undercover as a teacher, will see the kid being dropped off by his dad, storm out of the school, grab the dad's lapels and push him against the car, and say "You hit da kid, I hit you." Then, of course, the average-size dad will take a swing at the 1.2-meter, 115-kilo man-mountain with muscles on his muscles, and the man-mountain will effortlessly block it and lay him out with a punch to the gut.

Then he'll apologize to the principal, played by Helen Hunt, who will ask "How did it feel to slug that son of a bitch?" And the problem is solved.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Yep… it’s two different intersecting issues, and unfortunately, they both need to be sorted out with some kind of middle ground…. Which, in most cases means neither side will be happy… but that’s reality.

 

[Ron in Regina]

OK, I’m not sure if this is Woke or just Weird?

PETA mocked over old post about 'racist' cow’s milk — Toronto Sun

An old tweet from animal rights organization PETA has resurfaced on X (formerly Twitter) that claimed cow’s milk is a “symbol used by white supremacists.” The then-tweet linked to a 2017 blog post titled “Why Cow’s Milk Is the Perfect Drink for Supremacists,” and refers to scenes out of the...

apple.news

This isn’t from the Onion, or the Beaverton, or even the CBC. This isn’t a parody. Not an intentional parody anyway.

 

[55Mercury]

so... chocolate milk is the path to redemption!

:?D

 

[Serryah]

OK, I’m not sure if this is Woke or just Weird?
View attachment 19298

PETA mocked over old post about 'racist' cow’s milk — Toronto Sun

An old tweet from animal rights organization PETA has resurfaced on X (formerly Twitter) that claimed cow’s milk is a “symbol used by white supremacists.” The then-tweet linked to a 2017 blog post titled “Why Cow’s Milk Is the Perfect Drink for Supremacists,” and refers to scenes out of the...

apple.news

View attachment 19299
This isn’t from the Onion, or the Beaverton, or even the CBC. This isn’t a parody. Not an intentional parody anyway.

It's PETA, who the hell knows if it's real or not. They're really fucking crazy.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Yep… it’s two different intersecting issues, and unfortunately, they both need to be sorted out with some kind of middle ground…. Which, in most cases means neither side will be happy… but that’s reality.

Eisenhower called it "the equality of dissatisfaction." His theory was that when all sides (and there are always more than two) are equally OUTRAGED! at you, you probably hit pretty close to the fair solution.

See, Ike realized full well he was dealing with a nation full of whiny pussies with the maturity of a pissed-off three-year-old.

 

[Ron in Regina]

 

[Jinentonix]

Here's some fun. The City of L.A. decided it needed some new bus shelters to protect people waiting for a bus from the sun and heat. This specific project below emerged in 2022, after convening a group of 10 to 15 women and "gender-nonconforming" people. This is what the "wokeness" came up with, at a cost of $10,000. This is a bus shelter of "woke" design.