What are the prerequisites of a good debater?

[Francis2004]

Some people come to the forums to by pass the real world for awhile Wolf.

Odd you mention that VanIsle.. I was reading the news this morning and came across this article about the latest bomber having posted. It seems, if it was indeed the guy, that he had left many clues to his actions these last few years..

LAGOS, Nigeria — Internet postings purportedly written by a Nigerian charged with trying to bomb a U.S. airliner on Christmas Day suggest a fervently religious and lonely young man who fantasized about becoming a Muslim holy warrior.

Throughout more than 300 posts, a user named "Farouk1986" reflects on a growing alienation from his family, his shame over sexual urges and his hopes that a "great jihad" will take place across the world.

CTV News | Web posts suggest lonely, depressed terror suspect

 

[Cliffy]

Hello Bear, I hope you're enjoying the new year. I would like to stimulate you with a big stick, who are you calling old people, you snot nosed garbage eatin omnivore?
I never did prove you wrong though. If we wait for you to incorporate some original thought we would not see you for far to long.:lol:

Beav,
If a big stick provokes a bear, what provokes a Beaver?
Just curious.
(I just noticed how loaded that question is).;-)

 

[lone wolf]

Beav,
If a big stick provokes a bear, what provokes a Beaver?
Just curious.
(I just noticed how loaded that question is).;-)

Mess with his dam....

 

[VanIsle]

I think when one states something as being fact and refuses to hear anyone else's version, then it'd be a good idea to offer something to support the "fact". Not only does it support what you say, it INFORMS; people learn that way. If all you do is blab your opinions as facts and don't offer reasons why you have those opinions, you aren't contributing anything but opinion. The problem with that is others have their own opinions and they won't convert to yours and you aren't helping anyone.

I agree with you that sometimes some kind of proof needs to be shown and other times someone simply needs to state some opinion that seems obviously true (or at least more true than myself or someone else has been believing) so a new truth can be accepted without any additions. As I said before though, if it's really important, I think it's up to the poster to prove it to themselves and whether they decide to post that proof or not is entirely up to how important it is for them to get that truth out there. How many times have you googled a "truth" to find out there are numerous truths (apparently). It's kind of like the usage of certain words. You can use a word for years and years believing you are using it correctly and then find out one day that the definition doesn't even come close to what you thought it meant. All I am saying is that sometimes there is more than one truth and what one of us knows as the truth, for as different as the other knows it as the truth, it can still be the truth. Now that's quite the mouthful! lol I'll leave you to figure out "the truth" of what I am saying.
There is nothing wrong with being proven wrong. There is something wrong with someone forcing what they feel is their truth, upon anyone. That happens here and in the outside world. I had a daughter-in-law that could say things with such conviction that if you didn't know that she didn't have a clue, you would probably have believed her to be right.

 

[AnnaG]

"What are the prerequisites of a good debater?"

Sticks?

 

[AnnaG]

I agree with you that sometimes some kind of proof needs to be shown and other times someone simply needs to state some opinion that seems obviously true (or at least more true than myself or someone else has been believing) so a new truth can be accepted without any additions. As I said before though, if it's really important, I think it's up to the poster to prove it to themselves and whether they decide to post that proof or not is entirely up to how important it is for them to get that truth out there. How many times have you googled a "truth" to find out there are numerous truths (apparently). It's kind of like the usage of certain words. You can use a word for years and years believing you are using it correctly and then find out one day that the definition doesn't even come close to what you thought it meant. All I am saying is that sometimes there is more than one truth and what one of us knows as the truth, for as different as the other knows it as the truth, it can still be the truth. Now that's quite the mouthful! lol I'll leave you to figure out "the truth" of what I am saying.

lol I agree. Fact is fact, though, and truth is truth. Sometimes they are different. Fact is the two people can view a rock as hard. Truth is that one of the people is a ditch-digger and rocks are just hard. The other person is a geologist and sees the rock is sandstone. He doesn't think it's particularly hard as rocks go.

There is nothing wrong with being proven wrong. There is something wrong with someone forcing what they feel is their truth, upon anyone. That happens here and in the outside world. I had a daughter-in-law that could say things with such conviction that if you didn't know that she didn't have a clue, you would probably have believed her to be right.

She must be related to someone we know around here. lol

 

[Tonington]

A good command of logic and rhetoric. Knowing your audience helps too. Those are some of the prerequisites of a good debater. Also a healthy amount of caveats.

 

[VanIsle]

Odd you mention that VanIsle.. I was reading the news this morning and came across this article about the latest bomber having posted. It seems, if it was indeed the guy, that he had left many clues to his actions these last few years..



CTV News | Web posts suggest lonely, depressed terror suspect

I think he was actually attempting to enter what was real to him rather than escape it Francis. My real world right now is filled with stressors that I don't want constantly on my mind and responding to posts helps to remove those worrisome thoughts for brief periods. I'm trying to figure out how we can help our son and his 3 children and there is a lot of worry to that. If all his children were able bodied, they wouldn't be a worry because they are old enough to basically look after themselves. The past few months have been nothing but major worry and they don't get better on any day. I don't know when they will but it's not going to happen anytime soon. When I'm tired and feeling over-whelmed, I come on here.

 

[VanIsle]

Yep, Ron doesn't put up with any crap- just wish he'd quit deleteing the "neat stuff" before I get a chance to read it.........................:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

That's funny JLM. Sometimes when I know stuff has been deleted and I see some of my posts gone, I wonder what was said that caused them to "go". It's probably better that we don't know.

 

[Francis2004]

I think he was actually attempting to enter what was real to him rather than escape it Francis. My real world right now is filled with stressors that I don't want constantly on my mind and responding to posts helps to remove those worrisome thoughts for brief periods. I'm trying to figure out how we can help our son and his 3 children and there is a lot of worry to that. If all his children were able bodied, they wouldn't be a worry because they are old enough to basically look after themselves. The past few months have been nothing but major worry and they don't get better on any day. I don't know when they will but it's not going to happen anytime soon. When I'm tired and feeling over-whelmed, I come on here.

At some point I guess he crossed from fiction to reality..

 

[talloola]

I do agree with you Talloola. Your posts are sensible and fair. I know on rare occassions you somewhat rip into someone who needs it but again - it's not because you didn't think about what you had to say and the answers are always pretty good. I like to read what you have to say. I have always hoped that one day you might stop by and say hello.

I was in nanaimo today, I will PM you next time I'm coming
that way, and I will stop in and say hello

 

[VanIsle]

I was in nanaimo today, I will PM you next time I'm coming
that way, and I will stop in and say hello

That would be nice. I never work Mondays or Tuesdays though.

 

[CDNBear]

What's boring or non-stimulating (argumentative) to you may be just what most people are looking for.

This is true. There are select few here who posses the facilities.

A quiet place to "visit" without the insults and the arguments or the "proven wrongs" that people delight in.

:roll:

 

[JLM]

This is true. There are select few here who posses the facilities.

:roll:

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[JLM]

":roll:...hence why you've never been able to prove me wrong, right?"- That is not what this forum is about. I'll debate you any day, Bear on a subject of which I am knowledgable.

 

[CDNBear]

"Professor of assholology"..........................:lol::lol::lol:

Glad that made you laugh, hence its purpose.

What do you want to do?

Have a reasoned debate with some that can concede when proven wrong would be an awesome place to start.

Bicker and call down people

Only when confronted with the ideologically blinded, bigoted and otherwise stupidity of some people.

or discuss something sensibly?

Believe me, I've tried. There are but a few here that can discuss, debate or communicate on the same higher level.

 

[JLM]

":roll:...hence why you've never been able to prove me wrong, right?"- That is not what this forum is about. I'll debate you any day, Bear on a subject of which I am knowledgable.

Points taken, but I'm not here to prove anyone wrong. I didn't start the debate on good debating because I profess to be knowledgable on the subject, only have a few ideas and hope to get more ideas and hence learn something. I'd much rather see something posted that I agree with than disagree with, but in the event I disagree I'd like to be able to say that without being condemned, like being told I'm not able to think for myself.

 

[CDNBear]

Points taken, but I'm not here to prove anyone wrong. I didn't start the debate on good debating because I profess to be knowledgable on the subject, only have a few ideas and hope to get more ideas and hence learn something. I'd much rather see something posted that I agree with than disagree with, but in the event I disagree I'd like to be able to say that without being condemned, like being told I'm not able to think for myself.

I will readily admit that I am without a doubt a bellicose brute at time. I sincerely do not deal with stupidity well. Some would say that one mans stupidity is another's truth, but there are limits.

You and I for instance have argued over some of the most inane shyte on the net. You, as well as VI, have negatively categorized one group while ignoring the same attributes in a group you feel bonded to. Even when this was pointed out to you, complete with quotes of your own words and their's, you failed to accept the fact, and continued to argue in circles. While placing the entire focus of your efforts on the group you see no value in.


It is my opinion, that if you wish to debate or even discuss, there comes a time when certain inallienable facts must accpeted.

Peoples ego's get the way of their personal growth, and of this I am also quite guilty. It has taken quite some time for me to accept certain things on certain issues, but I did.

I don't see that same growth in many people here. In fact, I see a steadfast adherence to blind ideolgies, bigotry and self imposed ignoraance.

You can not have a productive debate or a discussion in that atmosphere. It is as simple as that. People must be willing to concede to FACT. Instead, they adhere to opinion, emotion and personal ideologies.

I will concede on certain issues there is no "right" or "wrong" perspective. But on some it is as plain as day. Take Mhz inability to grasp and admit that the Bible and the Quran are decendants of the Tulmud. I mean for shytes sake, that's like arguing about whether the sun is hot or not. It's absolute fact. His ideology is preventing him from accepting that his faith came the Jooos. I see that, as a monumental stupidy and have no ability to wrap my head around it, with anything other than contempt.

Are you following me here?

 

[JLM]

"You, as well as VI, have negatively categorized one group while ignoring the same attributes in a group you feel bonded to. Even when this was pointed out to you, complete with quotes of your own words and their's, you failed to accept the fact, and continued to argue in circles. While placing the entire focus of your efforts on the group you see no value in."

Methinks that is a lot of bullsh*t. I agree or disagree with individuals, some I agree with a lot of the time (Talloola, Countryboy and Cliffy come to mind) some I disagree with a lot of the time (MHz, Y.J. and Walter come to mind). "Friends" has very little to do with agreeing or disagreeing. I don't look on a person badly because I disagree with them, - I don't dislike you because I think you're full of sh*t.......LOL

 

[countryboy]

To: CDNBear...I can understand your contempt for stupidity, as it can be a rather irksome quality to deal with. On the other hand, I have found that "giving a little" can "get a lot" over the long haul.

I know hurling insults at people can give you that temporary "hit" of satisfaction, but many people feel hurt by those kinds of comments. Others will just tell you to take a hike, and some just ignore it. We're all kinda' unique and everyone does things a bit differently.

I guess it all depends on what YOU want to get out of a discussion on the forum. I'm only suggesting that you might get more objective participation from some if you can tone down the personal insults. If you just want to fight, then you're probably going at it the "right" (for you) way.

Just a couple of observations there...advice from me is free, and usually worth every penny. Happy New Year to you and yours!