Virgin Mary's Surprise Shocker
- Thread starter Cliffy
- Start date
As a child I bonded with my earthly father over a shared passion for things like fishing and shooting. My brother on the other hand bonded with our father in a different way. They built things in the garage, and my father taught him about tools and cars. Is my bond with my father any greater or more loving than that of my brother? Of course not. My father loves us equally, and my brother and I love him just as much.
Now, my brother might not appreciate certain things about my father as much as I do, like sacrifices our father made that he would be too young to remember. But not knowing, or not having appreciation for him even if you did know, doesn't negate that sacrifice or attribute.
God is the same way. We are all going to bow our knee to Christ one day, but if he appeared right now to us two, I might fall at his feet worshiping him with reverence while you embrace him by walking into his open arms. Different kinds of intimacy. Just as much love towards him but our bond is different because we understand different attributes of him. As long as we recognize Christ as deity (and that subsequently means also recognizing the importance of what happened on the cross, a sacrifice, just like how a earthly father can sacrifice for his children), then we will also recognize that God is loving, forgiving and merciful - that's the most important.
Now on the other hand, the possibility of knowing God in different kinds of intimacy doesn't mean that you can freely interpret who God is and still expect to have a connection with the one true God. For example, if my earthly father tells me to clean my room, and I refuse to acknowledge his authority, and instead point to my Tim Tebow poster and say "this is my father", well then you've put something in place of the truth and the only person being fooled is yourself.
Again, God's the same way. I can't pick up a rock and say "this is God" and expect that I'm still acknowledging my creator without being sorrily mistaken. That's one of the reasons why he said "you shall have no other gods beside me".
Cliffy recognizes that he has a creator, but he's interpreting God in way to make himself feel comfortable with his sin.
"My 'god' doesn't judge" - Cliffy
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And there aren't any Christians out there who do the same? I call BS on that; otherwise why are there so many "types" of Christians? Anglican, Protestant, Catholic; all Christian, all believe in Jesus, it's just the things about him and his life you all have issue in.
So Cliffy believes his god doesn't judge. That's something you can't say for your version; your God judges people on mere thought.
Or is that the Evangelical Christian God that does that?
For the record, I don't follow the Christian god either. I do believe in some higher power, but the Christian god is just too confusing, contradictory and bloodthirsty for my taste. Kind'a like the Mayan Gods.
Alley like to blow smoke rings out his butt. Makes him feel superior. Don't pay him no mind.And there aren't any Christians out there who do the same? I call BS on that; otherwise why are there so many "types" of Christians? Anglican, Protestant, Catholic; all Christian, all believe in Jesus, it's just the things about him and his life you all have issue in.
So Cliffy believes his god doesn't judge. That's something you can't say for your version; your God judges people on mere thought.
Or is that the Evangelical Christian God that does that?
For the record, I don't follow the Christian god either. I do believe in some higher power, but the Christian god is just too confusing, contradictory and bloodthirsty for my taste. Kind'a like the Mayan Gods.
I really pity those poor people who think everything can be explained by science and when faced with something they can't explain, they fall back on the old "People once thought the earth was flat once":roll:
The believers and unbelievers...I have seen both at death's door in my lifetime.....and when my time comes I would rather be a believer.
Meri mati mary matter dead matter lifeless virgin matter then impregnated with spirit and presto you got conscious thought with legs
Here you go all good believers, remember you asked for these verses. AND I can give you chapt. & verse on all of them.
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27
Oh and Those breaking the sabbeth, cursing or blaspheming, adultry, not being a virgin on the wedding night, and let us not forget the rebellious son........are to be stoned Most of these verses are in Deut. with Numbers 15-32-56 covering the one on the Sabbeth.
Remember Jesus was a Jew and said," He did not come to abolish or change the law but to fulfill the law." Matt.5-17-8 In otherwords, being a Jew, the Old Testement laws were His laws and He expected all those who follow Him or believe in Him to obey the laws in the old testement. However, I would advise ignoring these religious laws. Murder by stoning by religious decree is still murder and we are enough of a civilized society to look unkindly on such actions.
By the way, I do not feel sorry for those who have chosen to believe in a book that portrays the supposed Creator of the Universe as a cruel, prejudiced, arrogant, insane nutball. After all the mental capacity to assess and judge good from evil is a built in asset for adult homosapiens. Civil law gives those who choose mindless faith over reason the right to believe what they wish, AS LONG as they do not demean those who feel differently. They may present their reasons for their beliefs but they may not harrass or malign unbelievers, inspite of what any "holy" book says.
Critizing or demeaning a religion or god is directed at the religion or god and is not to be taken personally. God should be able to handle this with no help from mere humans.
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27
Oh and Those breaking the sabbeth, cursing or blaspheming, adultry, not being a virgin on the wedding night, and let us not forget the rebellious son........are to be stoned Most of these verses are in Deut. with Numbers 15-32-56 covering the one on the Sabbeth.
Remember Jesus was a Jew and said," He did not come to abolish or change the law but to fulfill the law." Matt.5-17-8 In otherwords, being a Jew, the Old Testement laws were His laws and He expected all those who follow Him or believe in Him to obey the laws in the old testement. However, I would advise ignoring these religious laws. Murder by stoning by religious decree is still murder and we are enough of a civilized society to look unkindly on such actions.
By the way, I do not feel sorry for those who have chosen to believe in a book that portrays the supposed Creator of the Universe as a cruel, prejudiced, arrogant, insane nutball. After all the mental capacity to assess and judge good from evil is a built in asset for adult homosapiens. Civil law gives those who choose mindless faith over reason the right to believe what they wish, AS LONG as they do not demean those who feel differently. They may present their reasons for their beliefs but they may not harrass or malign unbelievers, inspite of what any "holy" book says.
Critizing or demeaning a religion or god is directed at the religion or god and is not to be taken personally. God should be able to handle this with no help from mere humans.
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How wierd, Jesus not only did but insisted his followers follow those laws as well. Remember He had no intention of changing the law as evidenced by His disciples.
So??...It was Jewish law and Jesus was a practicing Jew. Jewish law consisted of more than "10 commandments"
All Old Testament levitican Laws. The only "laws" that came from God were the 10 commandments which Christ stated remained. He also stated that he brought a new covenant, this would supersede the previous covenant made with Moses. A new covenant, that is the key. Bringing up old Levitican law to Christians..... Levitican law "may" apply to Jews, but it doesn't apply to Christians, as much as I am sure you would like it to, to make your job of crapping on Christianity and Christians easier, but you're wrong.
When Christ referred to "not coming to change the law" he was referring to mans laws, laws like Leviticus, laws of the land like Roman laws. As a matter of fact when Christ was asked if the Jewish people should be paying tribute (taxes) to Caesar, his reply was to "give unto Caesar that which is his, and unto God that which is God's." In other words, you still payed your taxes and obeyed the laws of the land.
Now, if you were as knowledgeable as you say you are, you would never have brought up stoning period. Christ made it perfectly clear what he thought of stoning, or do you not remember/know this.
I'm sorry dear, but your arguments are old and weak. They take OT Jewish laws and traditions and try to apply them to Christianity. Judaism and Christianity may be rooted in the same history and have the same "founding Fathers", but they went their separate ways during the time of Christs life.
What more can I say than what you have already stated. Christians are not Jews.
How silly!! Do you think the old testement is there because Jesus or Christians did not believe it to be the word of God?? Just window dressing so to speak?? Give over, the Old Testement was Jesus's bible. It is what he believed to be a good representation of the God
He worshipped. Remember Constantine & the Bishops totally revised the bible, banning those that didn't suit them. How much of "God's Word" has been changed through all the translations either accidentally or purposefully. Geez, 10 people witnessing the same accident, have 10 different versions of what happened. No cameras or recording machines back then either. I will never understand why people will go with the impossible rather than their own good sense. No wonder the bible refers to sheep and folds so often.
As I mentioned all through the New Testement, Jesus said, again and again he came not to change the law, but to enforce it, it one place he is quoted as saying with the sword if necessary. Do you honestly believe, a holy man would attempt to change God's law?? It was the law of the land he attempted to change but not those of God. He was a practicing Jew until he died. As for going their separate ways, not for a long, long time. Heck it was 300 years after Jesus's death before the populace were finally forced to accept the "Christian Bible"
The same old time biblical laws are still practiced in places like Saudi Arabia. It may still be decades before reason overtakes religion in that country. Realize that society is much as Jesus's world was and how it remained for centuries afterwards.
Those thought to be witches and warlocks, are still stoned and beheaded in that world today. They used water boarding in the old world, just as they still do in our world. The last one person declared a witch was beheaded in Saudi Arabia the beginning of November 2011. Dogmatic and religious worlds are a still only a belief away from barbarianism, and barbarianism is only a belief away in our world. Believe what you want. I prefer reason over belief. If something seems unreasonable, strikes the senses as unreasonable, what are the odds it is unreasonable?
Did you know the US government, just last week passed a law that allows that government to jail, without the right to trial or representation under the law,US citizens, for certain crimes? It permits torture and the continuation of waterboarding as well. This was passed by it's God-fearing politicians, albeit with some reluctance by some.