US vetoes UN resolution condemning ethnic cleansing

Israeli colonies for only Jewish Israelis on Palestinian land is illegal


  • Total voters
    18

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Oh.... My..... God..... I can NOT believe the amount of ...... there's no other word for it but...lieing. The resolution that was vetoed was about the illegal eviction of Palestinians from their homes and the take of said homes by Israelis. Just that, nothing about genocide, and nothing about ethnic cleansing. Are you people's arguments against what Israel is doing that weak that you need to out right lie about what is happening?

eao...... RCS was a serving member of the armed forces under at least Chretien. I am POSITIVE he would know, first hand, how he and his comrades were out fitted and what equipment they had available to them to do their job. He would also know what kind of restrictions were imposed on them while trying to do their jobs. You calling BS on his personal experience, once again, shows your inability to see beyond the nose on your face or the reality of the world today.
 

BaalsTears

Senate Member
Jan 25, 2011
5,732
0
36
Santa Cruz, California
So who was expressing democratic dissent by vetoing condemanation of genocide? The people of America? I highly doubt they would democratically chose to condone genocide and I don't buy into the Obama or Israel angles.

Let me clarify. America is transitioning from one era to another. Because of that fact Americans are consumed with domestic affairs rather than foreign affairs.

The UN Resolution is irrelevant to Americans, except to the extent it can be used for domestic political purposes. If Obama had permitted Susan Rice, his UN Ambassador, to vote in favor of the resolution his domestic opponents would use that fact against him to drum up even more internal opposition than he now faces.

If you want to know who specifically I can tell you that everyone who opposes Obama will use it against him even if they support the Palestinians. That's true because defeating leftist governance in America is the only thing that matters. That's the way figurative civil wars work.

Obama's primary objective is to get reelected. Toward that end he wants to avoid giving his domestic opponents any additional leverage to use against him. Figuratively speaking, Obama doesn't want to provide his adversaries with any more ammunition as he approaches the 2012 presidential election. He is manuevering to limit his political exposure.
 
Last edited:

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
So who was expressing democratic dissent by vetoing condemanation of genocide? The people of America? I highly doubt they would democratically chose to condone genocide and I don't buy into the Obama or Israel angles.

There was, and is, no genocide.

Sorry for your loss.

You'll have to figure out another rationalization for your hatred of Jews.

No doubt. Sabra and Shatila qualifies as genocide. None of the many war crimes the IDF committed in Gaza recently were genocide.

Sabra and Shatila certainly were genocide.....but they were not committed by the Israelis.....who simply stood by and watched.....as we have done over and over and over.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
For a long time, any western politician who doesn't support Israel as unshakably as Prime Minister Stephen Harper tend to have short careers. The evidence is overwhelming that our media and politicians closely follows the Israeli narrative. This vote by the US at the UNSC in front of the entire world makes the US and Israel transparent to everyone, except those who can't see oppression and injustice in plain sight.

This isn't about Judaism. Its about doing the right thing. Everyone who is aware and not part of the solution, is part of the problem.


The vote wasn't about Chavez. Stay on topic.

How come you don't say anything about people like Chavez (Venezuela), there doing exactly what you accuse Israel of doing. Difference being we know what Chavez is doing, (subverting a nation into slavery). While Israel is just trying to survive. Israel is doing nothing wrong. When the Palestinians want to discuss peace seriously pressure against them will be relaxed.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Oh.... My..... God..... I can NOT believe the amount of ...... there's no other word for it but...lieing. The resolution that was vetoed was about the illegal eviction of Palestinians from their homes and the take of said homes by Israelis. Just that, nothing about genocide, and nothing about ethnic cleansing. Are you people's arguments against what Israel is doing that weak that you need to out right lie about what is happening? I believe those other comments were off topic. The resolution was about Israel's illegal colony building where they evict one group of people from their homes and replace them with other people based solely on religion. The resolution didn't explicitly label this activity as ethnic cleansing, but it is ethnic cleansing. Calling them settlements is just nice way of saying ethnic cleansing.

eao...... RCS was a serving member of the armed forces under at least Chretien. I am POSITIVE he would know, first hand, how he and his comrades were out fitted and what equipment they had available to them to do their job. He would also know what kind of restrictions were imposed on them while trying to do their jobs. You calling BS on his personal experience, once again, shows your inability to see beyond the nose on your face or the reality of the world today.

I didn't invent the numbers, nor can I account for RCS's misperception regarding Trudeau. I'm just posting what I found:
Dec. 3, 2007

Former prime minister Pierre Trudeau may still be widely reviled in the military community as a “pinko” who slashed the budget of the Canadian Forces in the '70s, but a new analysis done by Parliament’s research branch ranks him as the top spender on defence in the last 37 years.

The figures, detailing the defence budget as a percentage of the country’s gross domestic product, indicates Trudeau even outspent Progressive Conservative prime minister Brian Mulroney, who brought in a hawkish defence policy in the late '80s....
Trudeau was Canada's top defence spender: study
I also found charts and graphs on government pdf's which clearly show a significant increase in military spending while Trudeau was PM. Mulroney, Chretien and Martin made cuts and Harper restored funding to the Trudeau era levels and recently exceeded what Trudeau spent. The charts were the same as a % of GDP or normalized value (taking into account inflation)
Let me clarify. America is transitioning from one era to another. Because of that fact Americans are consumed with domestic affairs rather than foreign affairs.

The UN Resolution is irrelevant to Americans, except to the extent it can be used for domestic political purposes. If Obama had permitted Susan Rice, his UN Ambassador, to vote in favor of the resolution his domestic opponents would use that fact against him to drum up even more internal opposition than he now faces.

If you want to know who specifically I can tell you that everyone who opposes Obama will use it against him even if they support the Palestinians. That's true because defeating leftist governance in America is the only thing that matters. That's the way figurative civil wars work.

Obama's primary objective is to get reelected. Toward that end he wants to avoid giving his domestic opponents any additional leverage to use against him. Figuratively speaking, Obama doesn't want to provide his adversaries with any more ammunition as he approaches the 2012 presidential election. He is manuevering to limit his political exposure.

That may be true. But he has essentially given a green light for Israel to expropriating Palestinian land, evicting the inhabitants and populating the West Bank and Jerusalem with Israeli Jews. That's a war crimes and on the scale where it affects millions of Palestinians, its a crime against humanity. So lets examine the remaining options available to Palestinians to stop this crime.

The UN is a dead end. Negotiation? The Palestinian Papers show that even when Palestinian negotiators made offers which could be labeled treasonous and a complete sell out of their own people, it still wasn't good enough. The only thing they didn't offer was to convert to Judaism.
The Palestine Papers - Al Jazeera English

They even offered to swear allegiance to Israel in a way:
The threat of a one-state solution - The Palestine Papers - Al Jazeera English

That leaves violence as pretty much their only option for ever winning freedom and justice. The Palestinians will remain nationless, landless refugees until they are liberated by war.

There was, and is, no genocide.

Sorry for your loss.

You'll have to figure out another rationalization for your hatred of Jews.

Sabra and Shatila certainly were genocide.....but they were not committed by the Israelis.....who simply stood by and watched.....as we have done over and over and over.

That's not true. Israel's military controlled the entire operation from start to finish. Judge the events for yourself:
Following the assassination of Lebanese Christian President Bashir Gemayel, tensions built as Phalangists called for revenge.. ..the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) had completely surrounded the Sabra-Shatila camps, and controlled all entrances and exits by the means of checkpoints. The IDF also occupied a number of multi-story buildings as observation posts.. ..IDF tanks began shelling the camps. Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan[13] met with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and telling them the PLO fighters were responsible for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel[14].. ..1,500 militiamen assembled at Beirut International Airport, then occupied by Israel. Under the command of Elie Hobeika, they began moving towards the camps in IDF supplied Jeeps, following Israeli guidance on how to enter the camps.. ..During the night the Israeli forces fired illuminating flares over the camps.. ..For the next 36 to 48 hours, the Phalangists massacred the inhabitants of Sabra and Shatila, while Israeli troops guarded the exits.. ..a militiaman's radioed question to his commander Hobeika about what to do with the women and children... Hobeika's reply: "This is the last time you're going to ask me a question like that; you know exactly what to do." Phalangist troops could be heard laughing in the background..
Sabra and Shatila massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the time Robert Fisk entered the camps, the slaughter was complete:
..there were women lying in houses with their skirts torn torn up to their waists and their legs wide apart, children with their throats cut, rows of young men shot in the back after being lined up at an execution wall. There were babies - blackened babies babies because they had been slaughtered more than 24-hours earlier and their small bodies were already in a state of decomposition - tossed into rubbish heaps alongside discarded US army ration tins, Israeli army equipment and empty bottles of whiskey.. ..There were cartridge cases across the main road. I saw several Israeli flare canisters, still attached to their tiny parachutes.. ..The eyes of these young men were all open. The youngest was only 12 or 13 years old.. ..One lay on her back, her dress torn open and the head of a little girl emerging from behind her. The girl had short dark curly hair, her eyes were staring at us and there was a frown on her face. She was dead.. ..She could have been no more than three years old. The back of her head had been blown away by a bullet fired into her brain. One of the women also held a tiny baby to her body. The bullet that had passed into her breast had killed the baby too. Someone had slit open the woman's stomach, cutting sideways and then upwards, perhaps trying to kill her unborn child. Her eyes were wide open, her dark face frozen in horror..
SABRA AND SHATILA By Robert Fisk

If Syrian troops had crossed into Israel, surrounded a Kibbutz and allowed their Palestinian allies to slaughter the Jewish inhabitants, I doubt you would blame just the Palestinians.


How come you don't say anything about people like Chavez (Venezuela), there doing exactly what you accuse Israel of doing. Difference being we know what Chavez is doing, (subverting a nation into slavery). While Israel is just trying to survive. Israel is doing nothing wrong. When the Palestinians want to discuss peace seriously pressure against them will be relaxed.
This is off topic. Start a thread on Chavez if you like.
 
Last edited:

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Israel pleads for it's right to exist no matter what crimes against the rest of humanity may occur. That's the right to preemptively eliminate any and all opponents to that exception. The whole question was reduced to primal law before Israel existed even. The colonization of Palestine was predicated on that strategy. Every legal exercise since then has been theatre.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
Actually I'm a middle aged guy from Thunder Bay who lives near Toronto.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------A socialist from Toronto. That explains your alternate view of reality.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
The safety and seurity of illegal homes on occupied territory?

Okay coach...Hail Mary it is.

You're right as a Christian I should do everythig possible to protect Christianity from being wiped off the face of the Holy land.
So your on the side of the so called Palestinians against the state of Israel, copy that.. ;-)
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Israel pleads for it's right to exist no matter what crimes against the rest of humanity may occur.

.. But Palestine not only has the right to exist, but also the right to perpetuate war crimes against Israel?



That's the right to preemptively eliminate any and all opponents to that exception.


I wonder if the 2 mentally incapacitated women were informed of their inalienable rights before or after the Palestinian terrorists group strapped bombs to them and detonated them remotely.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
Actually my main beef is with Canada, or more specifically Canada politicians, the MSM and popular opinion. Canada's unshakable support of Israeli atrocities is shameful.

I don't condemn the legal right of Israelis to defend themselves or even legal violent action they take against their violent adversaries. I condemn Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. I condemn Israel's brutal crackdown and human rights violations against non-violent protesters. I condemn Israel's slow motion ethnic cleansing. So should all Canadians.

Canadians have forgotten who we used to be. When Canada was run by Lester B. Pearson, we were respected for our international efforts promoting peace and human rights. The Canadian flag used to be a symbol of freedom and justice. Now try wearing one anywhere in the Arab world. Our Prime Minister sided with a brutal oppressive dictator against the Egyptian people. For years we have expressed our unshakable support for Israel despite their criminal treatment of Palestinians.

I want to be able to travel anywhere and wear a Canadian flag with pride. I used to be proud of Canada. Thanks to the actions of PM Harper I am ashamed of what we have become.

I want my Canada back.
Fair enough, but if you want to condemn Israel then why are you not out there protesting against the building of settlements etc? It's fine to sit at home doing it but actions speak louder then words..



Every Sunday I enjoy the Rachel Corrie pancake breakfast, cheers..
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
.. But Palestine not only has the right to exist, but also the right to perpetuate war crimes against Israel?

I wonder if the 2 mentally incapacitated women were informed of their inalienable rights before or after the Palestinian terrorists group strapped bombs to them and detonated them remotely.

Those are the actual agreed to terms. They are in effect today and have been for the entire existence of Israel. Action denotes and dictates terms. These are observable actions. I wonder if you have a link for your pulp story about the suicide bombers.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
I didn't invent the numbers, nor can I account for RCS's misperception regarding Trudeau. I'm just posting what I found:



This is off topic. Start a thread on Chavez if you like.

You have again made the point others have said about you. You are so blinded by your hatred of a small country that is trying to survive surrounded by terrorist nations who are using gullible people like yourself to further their causes. You speak one thing and act totally opposite. I am thankful that you are only a minority of people who have been duped by Hamas propaganda. You and others like you will only get these people you think your trying to save wiped out in another needless war. Chavez is just another Hamas type, same just different name. No you didn't invent the numbers, just copied from another paper. (cheated so to speak) You are debating at a level that you should actually be seeing and doing things yourself. You once said you wanted to go and help those blockaded, well that would be one way to find out what is really going on.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Gilad Atzmon - Home

Truth in Stuttgart

Saturday, February 19, 2011 at 12:33AM

Israelis are now imprisoned -- imprisoned by Palestinian future kindness. No-one can forgive the Israelis for what they do; not the British, nor the French, nor the Germans.

The only people that will ever be able to forgive them -- are the Palestinians. For Israelis, to get amnesty, they have to start to think, right now -- because they are doomed to live in this society. This is an irreversible process now. It will be one state, and we have to make sure that the Israelis understand it. They must understand that every crime they are committing in the present -- will make them subject to future Palestinian kindness.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Like this is a new revolution. Wishful thinking from the worlds Twinkies.

This is a great impartial source to find anti American propaganda. Great believable source.



Egypt's Spirit Lands In Wisconsin
By Stephen Lendman
It landed, but it's too soon to know where it's going or how committed workers are to stay the course and spread it to other US states

Madison Protests May Spark A New Era Of
Protest Politics In USA

By Billy Wharton
Let Madison be a sign – Americans are about to join the global wave of people power protests demanding democratic rights in the face of governments organized to protect the wealth of elites


Is This The Beginning Of The Second
American Revolution?

By Timothy V. Gatto
What’s happening in Wisconsin is only a prelude to what is eventually going to happen all over the country

US Workers: Resurgent Or
Waging A Rearguard Action?

By Stephen Lendman
Building on Middle East and Wisconsin momentum, over 1,000 people rallied in Ohio's Columbus Statehouse on February 15, opposing Senate Bill 5 (SB5). Similar anti-worker schemes are proceeding in other states, including California, New York, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Hampshire, Tennessee, and eventually perhaps most, if not all, unless sustained Wisconsin momentum intervenes everywhere

Countercurrents.org | Educate ! Organize ! Agitate !
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
You have again made the point others have said about you. You are so blinded by your hatred of a small country that is trying to survive surrounded by terrorist nations who are using gullible people like yourself to further their causes. You speak one thing and act totally opposite. I am thankful that you are only a minority of people who have been duped by Hamas propaganda. You and others like you will only get these people you think your trying to save wiped out in another needless war. Chavez is just another Hamas type, same just different name. No you didn't invent the numbers, just copied from another paper. (cheated so to speak) You are debating at a level that you should actually be seeing and doing things yourself. You once said you wanted to go and help those blockaded, well that would be one way to find out what is really going on.

I'm all for defending Israel from attacks onto its internationally recognized territory. You won't hear any argument from me there. However, Israel's current boundaries extend beyond that to occupied territory. Certainly the Palestinian will fight to try to take that land back.

Now I agree to a degree that, especially seeing that Palestine is clearly weaker than Israel militarily, that it's wasting its time fighting for it in military terms. Personally, if I were the leadership of Palestine, I'd order a ceasefire and at least try to enforce it on the Palestinian people, and then take the case to the UN General Assembly again asking Israel to return to within its pre-1967 borders.

Some might argue that if Israel refuses to give that land up when Palestine is fighting tooth and nail for it, that it is even less likely to give it back merely on a principled respect for the rule of law. What they'd be forgetting though would be the political impact. As long as Palestine continues to fight for that territory, it makes it easier to paint them as terrorists. Should they lay down their arm, Israel would certainly have no choice but to do the same under diplomatic pressure. Once the fighting ceases, heads would be a little more level, with possibly Zionist interests defending Israeli occupation of its post-1967 acquisitions, but with most countries siding with Palestine owing to clear international laws stipulating Israel's legitimate boundaries. That way, Palestine might be able to push some kind of limited embargo on Israel until it does cede its post-1967 acquisitions back to Palestine.

Palestine would also have the advantage of being able to make friends across the Arab world, but again, to avoid demonization based on prejudices, it could still encourage them not to take action against Israel except via UN resolutions against Israel and to push Israel to give its post1967 acquisitions back.

I realize this would likely require extremely cool heads seeing that it's quite understandable that Palestinians are outraged and so respond on emotion, which of course feeds the anti-Arab sentiment, ignoring that they are in fact fighting to take back land that international law itself recognizes and has always recognized as Palestinian land. Now sure some Palestinians want to wipe Israel off the map, but my guess is if israel gave them their legitimate land back, cooler heads would then prevail, not to mention that then we'd all be defending Israel's right to defend itself within its pre-1967 bounrdary.

The reason we're so divided on Israel in the first place is precisely because it's hard to morally defend a country that is occupying illegally conquered lands.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Mass produced consumer history lessons available at any western university are not a bargain.


the bargains would be those historys that the likes of darkbeaver spout........ just remember, you get what you pay for.