U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
I agree. If an Afghan soldier came to the US and shot 16 American civilians including women, children and babies, I doubt people minimize the heinous crime or make excuses. More likely these minimizers and apologists would demand the Afghan murderer stay in the US to face justice and if convicted, face the death penalty.
How do you know a few didn't smack a couple of airplanes into two buildings killing three thousand?
exactly. One can imagine the lynch mob mentality that would take hold. Of course planned assassination comes to mind as well.....being that it is an accepted policy now. Imagine the reaction if said killer were to pizz on the bodies, videod it and put it up on UTUBE. Then burnt the bodies.
Thanks for bringing forth that "what if" scenario in the US. Seems there are many layers of "justice" ....Plus that is one scenario folks refuse to acknowledge or consider.
The reality is that this murderer committed an act of TERRORISM in a country that he was deployed to improve, free and move into a more progressive democratic nation. (at least that is what the propaganda machine has been spewing for over a decade now)
Perhaps the Afghans should use the same motto. as the bush regime started: " You are either with us or with the terrorists".(as if the third option of NEITHER does not apply)... and this act shows exactly where that one lies.
critical to note that invasions of choice are also an act of terrorism. Just ask all the terrified populations that have been affected. Murder, rape of citizens in a foreign nation are an act of terrorism. Burning the evidence just compounds the crime.
Afghan leader blasts U.S. over shootings probe
........One would think so.
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Thank you for such a refreshing view ... how would everyone feel about it if the shoe were on the other foot (that oft quoted commandment: do unto others as you would have them do unto you). If Afghanistan quietly removed their mass murderer first to Kuwait and then home, where he may not face the same justice of capital punishment that is commonly practiced in the US for mass murder, the outrage could be felt in nukes.
I don't think that would go over too well.
The lynch mob was ready at hand for those that even suggested the murderer be processed by the local judicial system ... imagine what would have happened if he had been processed by the local judicial system. There would have been an outcry and most likely retaliation for not recognizing the man's psychological defect ... perhaps much would have been made of the fact that someone with a mental defect should not be put to death for his crimes ... although that would be a bit hypocritical coming from the US.
Pissing on dead bodies, burning piles of religious books and burning the bodies of murdered female children ... all in a very short space of time. Did anything happen to those young girls before they were shot and burned? Are we to assume that nothing happened to the young girls at the hands of murderous drunkards (Afghan reports are that more than one person was involved) and if so, why? Why were their bodies taken out of their beds, hauled as dead weight to a secondary location and burned ... across two villages in a short period of time during the night. That doesn't add up at all ... but if those young girls were not dead weight, that makes it easier to meet the timelines of 2 hours from beginning to end: two villages, shooting spree in several home invasions, bodies burned in a third location.
The really sad thing about where this happened is that it was in an area where Canadians had worked especially to improve relations with the community. They developed a model city (where the murders took place) and that model was being adapted in nearby cities. Canadians are continuing to work hard to establish infrastructure, like educational institutions for women in Afghanistan. Women in Afghanistan have been prevented from attending school in the past. Schools with female children and their teachers have been blown up and shot. Changing the education level of the population is an excellent way to make change in a country ... but the military practice of shooting children in their beds, or dragging the young girls away to be shot and burned in a secondary location, is barbaric and way out of line.
The US needs to man up with this one, in my opinion ... the days of shoot em up, burn their religious books and piss on their dead bodies are long gone ... time's up ... time to stop making excuses for men that have no descency when they are away from home. When Canada withdrew troops from this peaceful Afghan region, US soldiers took over. The actions of this (these) homicidal maniac(s) has been a huge setback in terms of establishing peace with the middle east.
Quickly transporting the murderer out of the country was not helpful. Perhaps we can sit back and understand how this might have happened, but that should not excuse the soldier from experiencing the full (local justice system) consequences of the law. If he had any honour and decency, this would not have happened, even with post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
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This latest senseless massacre of Afghans proves most Americans, the MSM, our leaders and many people here have two standards of justice. One for "us" and another for "them". The same people making excuses for and rationalizing this killer's heinous crime would support a beheading with an axe if the killer was Afghan and his victims were American women, children and babies.
For the record, I support truth and justice. I am not that certain that we know the whole truth here. I am doubtful that only a single person killed all these people. This person should be innocent until proven guilty. If he is determined to be guilty, then he should be handed over to the Afghan authorities for justice. I do not support the death penalty, but I accept that if I travel to another country, I am subject to their laws.
For the record, I support truth and justice. I am not that certain that we know the whole truth here. I am doubtful that only a single person killed all these people. This person should be innocent until proven guilty. If he is determined to be guilty, then he should be handed over to the Afghan authorities for justice. I do not support the death penalty, but I accept that if I travel to another country, I am subject to their laws.
Your hypocrisy aside. Who is minimizing and apologizing?
Oh I can imagine it, the bulk of your posts are excellent examples of lynch mob mentality.
It wasn't refreshing, it simply massaged your views.
Only the stupid call mental masturbation, refreshing.
What lunch mob was that? Or are you back to making things up?
Especially since I suggested just that on page one.
The only differences being, I didn't spin the story, make things up, or other make posts filled with all manner of stupidity, like yourself.
What? Are you really fabricating stuff now?
The fact that he murdered innocent women and children isn't enough for you? You need to make stuff up too?
No, the really sad thing is, over a dozen women and children were murdered in cold blood.
Your spin, accusations and fallacious commentary is a pathetic byproduct thereof.
Really? Can you point out some people here with two standards? Who would support beheading the accused with an axe, if he was Afghani?
Since you support truth, I'll be seeing some quotes to back up the claims you just made about the double standards of some here. Right?
I'm positive we aren't. But then again, I'm not prone to using anecdote as evidence, like yourself.
Wow, and he's not even Muslim.
Really? You actually believe that?
Speaking of double standards.
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I think the amount of Afghans killed since 9/11 is far beyond how many people died and were impacted by 9/11
Even if the entire country was responsible for 9/11, what has been done in Afghanistan goes far beyond eye for an eye or any sort of justice.
You're probably correct about the body counts. In retrospect, it may not have been such a great idea to go piddling on the machinery.
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The above statement expresses a common incorrect perception regarding the Taliban and 9/11.
The Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. They even officially condemned it. They were focused on a civil war at the time and had no interest in "piddling on the machinery". In fact they even offered to help the US bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice. All they wanted was the same the US would want before handing over visitors to the US over to the Taliban.... supporting evidence linking accused to the event., which the US refused to consider. Instead the US and their allies attacked the Taliban. They weren't our enemy until after the US (and Canada) went to Afghanistan and drew Taliban blood:
Taliban condemn 9/11
CNN.com - Attacks draw mixed response in Mideast - September 12, 2001
Officials described the U.S. decision to reject Taliban offers as a missed opportunity. Former CIA station chief Milt Bearden told the Post, “We never heard what they were trying to say…. We had no common language. Ours was, ‘Give up bin Laden.’ They were saying, ‘Do something to help us give him up.’” Bearden added, “I have no doubts they wanted to get rid of him. He was a pain in the neck,” but this “never clicked” with U.S. officials.
Michael Malinowski, a State Department official involved in the talks, acknowledged, “I would say, ‘Hey, give up bin Laden,’ and they would say, ‘No…. Show us the evidence’”, a request U.S. officials deemed unreasonable.[3]
According to the BBC, the Taliban later even warned the U.S. that bin Laden was going to launch an attack on American soil. Former Taliban foreign minister Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil said his warnings, issued because of concerns that the U.S. would react by waging war against Afghanistan, had been ignored. A U.S. official did not deny that such warnings were issued, but told BBC rather that it was dismissed because “We were hearing a lot of that kind of stuff”.[4]
Indeed, underscoring Muttawakil’s stated reasons for having delivered the threat warning to the U.S., a State Department document from June 2001 obtained by INTELWIRE.com[5] showed that the U.S. had warned the Taliban “that they will be held directly responsible for any loss of life that occurs from terrorist actions related to terrorists who have trained in Afghanistan or use Afghanistan as a base of planning operations.”[6] The Taliban ambassador to Pakistan Abdul Salam Zaeef responded that “the Taliban do not see Americans as their enemies and that there are no threats to Americans coming from the Taliban. Nontheless, said Zaeef, ‘We will do our best to follow up and stop’ any threat.” With regard to bin Laden, “Zaeef emphasized that the Taliban’s relationship with UBL [Usama/Osama bin Laden] and others is based not on enmity against the United States, but on ‘culture.’”[7]
* Newly Disclosed Documents Shed More Light on Early Taliban Offers, Pakistan Role:** Information Clearing House: ICH
The Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. They even officially condemned it. They were focused on a civil war at the time and had no interest in "piddling on the machinery". In fact they even offered to help the US bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice. All they wanted was the same the US would want before handing over visitors to the US over to the Taliban.... supporting evidence linking accused to the event., which the US refused to consider. Instead the US and their allies attacked the Taliban. They weren't our enemy until after the US (and Canada) went to Afghanistan and drew Taliban blood:
Taliban condemn 9/11
CNN.com - Attacks draw mixed response in Mideast - September 12, 2001
Officials described the U.S. decision to reject Taliban offers as a missed opportunity. Former CIA station chief Milt Bearden told the Post, “We never heard what they were trying to say…. We had no common language. Ours was, ‘Give up bin Laden.’ They were saying, ‘Do something to help us give him up.’” Bearden added, “I have no doubts they wanted to get rid of him. He was a pain in the neck,” but this “never clicked” with U.S. officials.
Michael Malinowski, a State Department official involved in the talks, acknowledged, “I would say, ‘Hey, give up bin Laden,’ and they would say, ‘No…. Show us the evidence’”, a request U.S. officials deemed unreasonable.[3]
According to the BBC, the Taliban later even warned the U.S. that bin Laden was going to launch an attack on American soil. Former Taliban foreign minister Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil said his warnings, issued because of concerns that the U.S. would react by waging war against Afghanistan, had been ignored. A U.S. official did not deny that such warnings were issued, but told BBC rather that it was dismissed because “We were hearing a lot of that kind of stuff”.[4]
Indeed, underscoring Muttawakil’s stated reasons for having delivered the threat warning to the U.S., a State Department document from June 2001 obtained by INTELWIRE.com[5] showed that the U.S. had warned the Taliban “that they will be held directly responsible for any loss of life that occurs from terrorist actions related to terrorists who have trained in Afghanistan or use Afghanistan as a base of planning operations.”[6] The Taliban ambassador to Pakistan Abdul Salam Zaeef responded that “the Taliban do not see Americans as their enemies and that there are no threats to Americans coming from the Taliban. Nontheless, said Zaeef, ‘We will do our best to follow up and stop’ any threat.” With regard to bin Laden, “Zaeef emphasized that the Taliban’s relationship with UBL [Usama/Osama bin Laden] and others is based not on enmity against the United States, but on ‘culture.’”[7]
* Newly Disclosed Documents Shed More Light on Early Taliban Offers, Pakistan Role:** Information Clearing House: ICH
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Karzai: US Not Cooperating in Massacre Probe -- News from Antiwar.com
wonder why the USG is so uncooperative. ( we all know how the US reacts when it does not get full cooperation on demand ) Watched Karzai at a press conference , with some of the victims neighbors and families attending.......and he has just about had it with the screwing around the US does. He is not alone.
The "accused" is in the US now. The spin has already begun. as have the excuses for his crime. of terrorized mass murder.
wasn't the invasion of Afghanistan about getting OBL. .....then it morphed into getting the Taliban as the US wanted a regime change there. Interesting how the US does not do body counts when it comes to those it slaughters en mass via elective invasions.
This current "incident' was totally intentional,
what is tragic is that the law and due process does not apply to everyone. Only to the americans and their troops. Seems that Afghanistan would be in their rights to arrange an assassination . The US has set the precident for assassination type "justice".
Sure they would....
I bet they should expect retribution too.
There's probably still family of that Arch Duke left over from WW1 who'd disagree.
The Taliban had OBL under guard, confiscated his comms etc as they knew he was up to something. Then they refuse to turn him over.
But in your opinion OBL was innocent of 911.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_of_the_September_11_attacks#Origins_of_9.2F11
According to the intelligence authorities[citation needed] in the United States and the Philippines, the September 11 attacks originated with Operation Bojinka (a plan that was not executed), which was conceived by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (K.S.M) and his nephew, Ramzi Yousef. The first stage would be the assassination of Pope John Paul II, and the bombing of twelve airliners. The second and third stages called for small airplanes loaded with explosives to be crashed into the CIA headquarters. The plot was discovered by Manila police on January 6, 1995 and Abdul Hakim Murad was arrested. Ramzi Yousef was arrested in Pakistan in February 1995. Wali Khan Amin Shah escaped after his arrest, but was re-arrested in Malaysia in December 1995. Khalid Sheik Mohammed escaped, and Riduan Isamuddin, also known as Hambali, was overlooked.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed first presented the idea for the September 11 plot to bin Laden in 1996 in Afghanistan.[10] However, nothing came of the idea at the time. At that point, bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were in a period of transition, having just relocated back to Afghanistan from Sudan.
Mohammed moved to Qatar. Before the government there could arrest him (after a request by the United States), he fled to Afghanistan. The leaders of Al-Qaeda liked the idea of the modified Phases II and III Mohammed presented to them. Instead of using small airplanes loaded with explosives, as Murad planned to do, Mohammed planned to use commercial airliners. Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah became the managers of the plot. During late 1996 and 1997, Khalid Sheik Mohammed stayed in the Czech Republic, as the Taliban allegedly did not approve of his womanising. German officials believe that the leaders of Al-Qaeda planned almost the entire September 11 plot in Afghanistan. Six of the hijackers that were chosen later down the line would have some say in the plot.
Actually, no, he has not said he believed that obl was innocent. All he did was post a truth about the time between 9/11 and the invasion of Afghanistan.
On other threads he referred to the Taliban turning OBL over to another agreed upon country - Also the US was to present evidence to the Taliban of OBLs involvement.
LAKE TAPPS, WASH. — On a winding road of wood-frame homes tucked amid towering trees, Robert Bales was the father who joined his two young children for playtime in the yard, a career soldier who greeted neighbours warmly but was guarded when talking about the years he spent away at war.
“When I heard him talk, he said ... ‘Yeah, that’s my job. That’s what I do’,” said Kassie Holland, a next-door neighbour to the soldier who is now suspected of killing 16 Afghan civilians. “He never expressed a lot of emotion toward it.”
Speaking to his fellow soldiers, though, Bales could exult in the role. Plunged into battle in Iraq, he told an interviewer for a base newspaper in 2009 that he and his comrades proved “the real difference between being an American as opposed to being a bad guy.”...
World News: Robert Bales, soldier accused in Afghan killings, was a family man - thestar.com
Maybe he'll be free in a year or two.... then again maybe not:
Last year, also in March, another soldier of the Stryker Brigade was sentenced to twenty four years in prison for killing three Afghan civilians. Jeremy Morlock from the 5th Stryker Brigade, along with five of his fellow soldiers, were brought to trial for a similar incident in Afghanistan over killings that occurred between January and May 2010. A military tribunal charged the soldiers with killing civilians for fun, dismembering the bodies before taking photos of them, and keeping human bones as wartime souvenirs.
Afghan massacre suspect identified as Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales — RT
“When I heard him talk, he said ... ‘Yeah, that’s my job. That’s what I do’,” said Kassie Holland, a next-door neighbour to the soldier who is now suspected of killing 16 Afghan civilians. “He never expressed a lot of emotion toward it.”
Speaking to his fellow soldiers, though, Bales could exult in the role. Plunged into battle in Iraq, he told an interviewer for a base newspaper in 2009 that he and his comrades proved “the real difference between being an American as opposed to being a bad guy.”...
World News: Robert Bales, soldier accused in Afghan killings, was a family man - thestar.com
Maybe he'll be free in a year or two.... then again maybe not:
Last year, also in March, another soldier of the Stryker Brigade was sentenced to twenty four years in prison for killing three Afghan civilians. Jeremy Morlock from the 5th Stryker Brigade, along with five of his fellow soldiers, were brought to trial for a similar incident in Afghanistan over killings that occurred between January and May 2010. A military tribunal charged the soldiers with killing civilians for fun, dismembering the bodies before taking photos of them, and keeping human bones as wartime souvenirs.
Afghan massacre suspect identified as Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales — RT
Well....in this instance I would say prove his inconsistency....cause I haven't seen it when it comes to the Taliban, obl, and the u.s.
God damn you really are an idiot..... he supplied evidence of a similar happening showing that those responsible were not just slapped on the wrist.....:roll:
24 years in jail - Do I think it is enough - No - I think we in Canada also have the same problems with people who kill more than 1 person - even then the sentence for 1 life is generally not enough.
Last year, also in March, another soldier of the Stryker Brigade was sentenced to twenty four years in prison for killing three Afghan civilians. Jeremy Morlock from the 5th Stryker Brigade, along with five of his fellow soldiers, were brought to trial for a similar incident in Afghanistan over killings that occurred between January and May 2010. A military tribunal charged the soldiers with killing civilians for fun, dismembering the bodies before taking photos of them, and keeping human bones as wartime souvenirs.