A fact left out of both the Goldstone report, and eao's list of Hamas war crimes.
Israel listed them after the start of the operation. That is why it is called a 'report' rather than a Judicial Judgment. Israel has written two papers so far, a response from the ones the paper is meant for (at the UN) gets to respond. Almost 100 countries voted for further investigation near the end of Feburary, 10 voted no. When the proposed Jewish homeland was on the table the vote of the minority (10 Nations also lol) meant nothing. Why should it mean something now? They should have the right to 'appeal' the vote, same as the 10 Nations should have been able to do in '47. The 'immigrants' were already being held on Cyprus and those people wanted them gone before they got too comfortable so the floodgates of Jewish immigration was assurred even before any vote took place
That was a holding area only, the takeover of Palestine for Jews was well established by 1946.
(in part)Findings
In April 1946, the Committee reported. Miraculously its members arrived at a unanimous decision, despite the vast range of their opinions. The Committee recommended the immediate admission of 100,000 Jewish refugees from Europe into Palestine. It also recommended that Palestine remain a mandated territory, that facilities be put in place to ensure Jewish migration and that the 1940 Land Act which banned Jews from purchasing land in 95% of Palestine be rescinded.
Excerpts from the recommendations are as follows:
Recommendation No. 3. In order to dispose, once and for all, of the exclusive claims of Jews and Arabs to Palestine, we regard it as essential that a clear statement of the following principles should be made:
* I. That Jew shall not dominate Arab and Arab shall not dominate Jew in Palestine.
* II. That Palestine shall be neither a Jewish state nor an Arab state.
* III. That the form of government ultimately to be established, shall, under international guarantees, fully protect and preserve the interests in the Holy Land of Christendom and of the Moslem and Jewish faiths.
Thus Palestine must ultimately become a state which guards the rights and interests of Moslems, Jews and Christians alike; and accords to the inhabitants, as a whole, the fullest measure of self-government, consistent with the three paramount principles set forth above.
Recommendation No. 4. We have reached the conclusion that the hostility between Jews and Arabs and, in particular, the determination of each to achieve domination, if necessary by violence, make it almost certain that, now and for some time to come, any attempt to establish either an independent Palestinian State or independent Palestinian States would result in civil strife such as might threaten the peace of the world.
Recommendation No. 6. The administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions.
Recommendation No. 7. We recommend that the Land Transfers Regulations of 1940 be rescinded and replaced by regulations based on a policy of freedom in the sale, lease or use of land, irrespective of race, community or creed.
Bear I thought in a some thread we were on that you mentioned you lost some respect/faith (something similar) with the Native leaders because they had become as corrupt as the their conquerors are.
Irrelevant. My ethnicity and my heritage has no bearing on this topic. It is simply an attempt to smear and attack me purposely, using racial undertones and without merit.
You are the one who posted the information and if it has a bearing on your current political then it is relevant. You have no qualms about saying all sorts of personal insults to others.
If you continue, I will report your posts for what they are.
That is your right.
Why doesn't Gaza get to take their complaints to the UN Court set up to hear those very complaints, really in the last 60 years they should have been there more than once.
The same corruption they adopted is the same thing that is happening to a different people these days.
Not at all. Most of the leaders in my community have no need of violence. They certainly have not waged a violent and bloody war on the people Canada. The only comparison is, that we the Natives of Canada, are much like the Israeli's. In that one day, we will be fighting someone else for our own land.
Nor do the vast majority of the people of Gaza. You think so eh, try setting a armed checkpoint anywhere.
The only point worth bringing forward is the 'build-up' to cast lead. Israel says it is because of the last 8 years and the 12,000 rockets and other acts like suicide bombers.
Although I do not remember there being any suicide bombings, you're pretty close.
Some pretty serious ones. If Israel is going back 8 years for their operation cast lead then should it not also be applied to the year 2000, what was going on in the 8 years previous that would warrant gorilla warfare on Israel. The fact that Arafat squirled away all the loot he did had to have been authorized by the US and Israel. The West is playing host to his widow, the people of Gaza never had any court that would strip her of the money. That is a time honored tactic, reward a few enormously and tha mass majority can live in abject poverty.
How many complaints did Israel make to the UN during that time?
I have no idea how many, but I do know that one such complaint was before the Security Council, and a non punitive declaration was levy against Palestine for the rocket attacks. Which of course are an actual targeting of Israeli citizens, another war crime eao and yourself have missed.
I have stated that Hamas should be taken to the world court, they would gladly do it if it also resulted in Israel also appearing for the complaints against them, not just for last year, all the way back to the first annihilated Arab village after Nov, '47.
Some incidents were costly in civilian lives. Israel wasn't sitting back for even an 'attack' that didn't claim any lives. Nor were the current 'leaders' in power for that whole period of time.
True, which is why I personally question Israel's action on the matter.
How about the world would accept 12,000 rockets and some actual deaths as a 'valid reason' for military action. Using the data from the beginning of the 6 month cease-fire (say 20 rockets and 0 deaths) would not warrant an operation that is a month long. (and be accepted by the masses of everyday people)
To use that earlier date as the 'base' then any step to a true cease-fire in the months prior was made in bad faith. While signing cease-fire documents the war room was putting the final touches on operation cast lead.
I think you should ease up on the dope.
If the reason Israel is using was 8 years in the making then 'cast lead' was already 'in the works' before the 6-month cease-fire was signed by either side.
The false-flag tunnel incident was done with the intention off seeing an increase in rocket attacks.
There's more proof you need to ease up on the dope.
Are you saying that is a tactic that is never used by Israel or any Nation? lol
It was an important event and no proof was ever offered.
Overview
1. On November 4 a series of events in the Gaza Strip signaled a significant erosion of the lull arrangement. The arrangement which went into effect on June 19, 2008 , initiated a five-month period of relative calm in the Gaza Strip and the western Negev population centers. During the first five months of the arrangement the Palestinian terrorist organizations generally did not carry out terrorist attacks and the IDF has avoided operating within the Gaza Strip. Hamas and the other terrorist organizations have exploited the quiet created by the lull to continue their military buildup and prepare themselves for “the morning after.”
2. The events which threaten the lull arrangement and cast a question mark over its validity began on November 4. Following information about Hamas's preparations to abduct IDF soldiers through a tunnel, the IDF operated near the border. The operation prevented the planned attack and killed seven Hamas terrorist operatives. Hamas reacted with massive rocket and mortar shell fire, unprecedented since the lull arrangement went into effect. After the immediate barrages, sporadic rocket and mortar shell fire continued (carried out by the smaller terrorist organizations). Israel responded by closing the Gaza Strip crossings.
3. Another event occurred on November 12, when the IDF killed four Hamas terrorist operatives who tried to lay an IED near the border security fence. The Palestinian terrorist organizations, led by Hamas, again fired dozens of rockets and mortar shells at western Negev population centers, including the town of Sderot and city of Ashqelon . The fire, in various quantities, continued uninterrupted for four days.
4. The ongoing escalation is the first of its kind during the lull. Several of its parameters are conspicuous: its scale (a total of 91 rockets and 38 mortar shells were fired between November 4 and 16); its continuity (the attacks occurred almost daily for ten days and are still ongoing); the various types of rocket used (including standard Grad 122mm rockets, fired at Ashqelon, for which Hamas claimed responsibility); the amount of time that Israel closed the Gaza Strip crossings in response (they have been closed to the delivery of merchandise since November 5). Following the lack of goods in the Gaza Strip and in response to appeals from the international community, on November 11 Israel began delivering a limited supply of diesel fuel for the Gaza Strip power plant. However, the deliveries quickly ended on November 12 because Hamas renewed its rocket fire.
5. Another important facet of the recent escalation is that for the first time, there is direct Hamas involvement in the rocket and mortar shell fire. Moreover, Hamas publicly claims responsibility, as do the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Fatah and the smaller organizations (until now, Hamas did not participate in the rocket and mortar attacks and the other terrorist organizations generally did not publicly claim responsibility for them.) At the same time, Hamas heads and spokesmen publicly stated that their intention was not to end the lull arrangement but to provide “an equal response” to what they call the “Israeli violations.” In addition, even after Hamas had “responded” (as the organization called its attacks) to the Israeli preventive activity, the other terrorist organizations (Fatah, the PIJ, etc.) did not stop attacking but continued sporadic rocket and mortar shell fire into Israel . For example, on the afternoon of November 14 Hamas stopped its fire, and since then the other Palestinian terrorist organizations have continued to fire rockets and mortar shells (while Hamas does not use force to keep them from attacking).
6. In summation , the series of events which began on November 4 with the prevention of a Hamas abduction signals a significant erosion in the lull arrangement and leaves its continuation in doubt. Theoretically, the two most important sides in the arrangement, Israel and Hamas , each for its own reasons, seem interested in having it continue , and both publicly state as much. Egypt , which brokered the arrangement, is also interested in having it continue, and in our assessment is working behind the scenes to calm the situation on the ground. 1 Actually, an examination of events shows that for the first time since the lull arrangement went into effect, the dynamics of the escalation on the ground make it difficult for the parties involved to restore the status quo ante.
Rocket and Mortar Shell Fire since the Beginning of the Escalation
(as of noon , November 16)
Once the above is added to Israel's original report they cover quite a bit of the complaints. This next link covers some of the complaints that have been 'shelved'.
Your point?
Only that this document is after Israel's last one in late January.
It is the UN's follow up to the Goldstone report as well as other investigations conducted mentioned in this document.
Sixty-fourth session
Agenda item 64
Report of the Human Rights Council
Follow-up to the report of the United Nations Fact-Finding
Mission on the Gaza Conflict
Report of the Secretary-General
The only one I had reservations about is the flour mill. If Israel had control of the compound for 3 days they could have put the shell casings on the roof.
Conspiracy theories make your argument weak.
The picture on page 58 was taken when the fire was bing put out, a gunman on the roof would be quite visible to patrolling aircraft.
The reason they gave for not using the roof was because it 'would make them easy targets' seems a bit much in that they targeted the building because they said there were snipers there.
Army training is far more complex and drastically different then insurgent training.
Given the quality of the pictures Israel supplied there should have been a body on the roof also.
With close air support (gunships) anybody on the roof during the rifle-fire portion would have been sitting ducks from. The ruling that it could be used for snipers means anything that would be high-ground is a valid target.
Yes!!! This is simple military strategy 101. If you had any knowledge of military tactics, you would know this. But you don't, so here we are.
Then why would Hamas put anybody out in the open?
I'm quite sure they make tank shells that are designed to start fires rather than scatter the building across the landscape.
Here's a link to a picture of the flour mill after Cast Lead. Take a look and rethink your comment...
The photo below is after the clean-up from the fire. I doubt it is up and running today.
The pics in the UN document taht were supplied by the IDF shows the whole roof as still standing.
Even with the Israeli update there are quite some incidents that are still not settled and the vote indicated the investigations continue.
Awesome. A illegitimate, unprofessional, bias, false and erroneous report triggers another investigation, that will use the same flawed techniques to come to the same erroneous conclusion. Just awesome.
That same "illegitimate, unprofessional, bias, false and erroneous report" dismisses a few complaints as not being valid. lol
So when will an impartial investigation begin? Or better yet, when will a real investigation begin on Hamas?
...Amazing ain't it?
This UN paper indicates Hamas did some things that requires a response from them. One complaint was about having a water-treatment plant as a 'compound' . Every water treatment plant in the world has a fence around it and security guards. Even if that wrecking of a 'well' is excused incidents when settlers are being protected by the IDF while they pour cement into the wells is a valid charge against the IDF as targeting a well. War crime.
Hamas will also have to give their version of how the sewage spill started.
Far as the vote is concerned it is for further investigation, no boycott. The odd thing is with complaints is they seem to be geared to the Government being the one to lodge the complaint for the way another Nation is acting towards them. A ruling Government is usually the ones causing the deaths and mayhem inside their own country, they aren't likely to be the ones turning themselves in, so there has to be some method for civil war to also covered as being equal to external threats.
The death squads in South America should have been investigated and prosecuted by some court that is impartial. Why would investigations (of complaints) be left to the aggressors, that is a recipe for disaster. In the above divide the ones against should do the investigative work that need to be done on Hamas and a similar choice for the ones that voted for a deeper investigation to investigate Israel. All that material is then reviewed by a panel from the absent or abstained group.
And none of that absolves you of bias, hatred and undue imbalance.
The crimes committed in the Sudan, outweigh anything, Israel has done.
Yet you and eao justify your hatred and hide it under the guise of "peace'. What utter BS.
I've read both of their reports in full. The only Goldstone quotes I have read are what has been posted on this thread. I take it as a report that would be enough to start an investigation on the conduct of both sides. Is Hamas expected to reply for the 8 prior years also, if I were them I would double it to be 16 years back, once courtroom testimony starts.
Towards you or Israel?
Are you suggesting you have to kill a certain number before you can be investigated?
