Should Canada revoke freedom of religion for Muslims?

Would you support banning Islam as it's described in the OP?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • No.

    Votes: 32 82.1%
  • Other answer.

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Total voters
    39

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Muslims don't have full freedom of religion in Canada now; at least not it the way some of the more orthodox want it practiced.

They are not allowed to practice Sharia Law.
They are not allowed to practice female circumcision.
They are not allowed to stone adulterers or young women who defy their parents.
They are not allowed to force women to go fully veiled.
They are not allowed to marry more than one person.
They are not allowed child brides.
They are not allowed to promote the murder of Canadians who disagree with them.

I could make to list longer, but I think you get the idea. And I should emphasize that most Muslims in Canada do not support the extremes listed above. In fact as has happened to most Canadians, second and third generation Muslims are becoming progressively secular.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Muslims don't have full freedom of religion in Canada now; at least not it the way some of the more orthodox want it practiced.

They are not allowed to practice Sharia Law.
They are not allowed to practice female circumcision.
They are not allowed to stone adulterers or young women who defy their parents.
They are not allowed to force women to go fully veiled.
They are not allowed to marry more than one person.
They are not allowed child brides.
They are not allowed to promote the murder of Canadians who disagree with them.

I could make to list longer, but I think you get the idea. And I should emphasize that most Muslims in Canada do not support the extremes listed above. In fact as has happened to most Canadians, second and third generation Muslims are becoming progressively secular.
You could make the list as long as you want, but they are not inhibited any more than any other religion in Canada. No other religion would be permitted to do anything in that list either. Which makes Bountiful an anomaly because its male members have multiple wives and some of them are minors.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,225
14,251
113
Low Earth Orbit
Muslims don't have full freedom of religion in Canada now; at least not it the way some of the more orthodox want it practiced.

They are not allowed to practice Sharia Law.
They are not allowed to practice female circumcision.
They are not allowed to stone adulterers or young women who defy their parents.
They are not allowed to force women to go fully veiled.
They are not allowed to marry more than one person.
They are not allowed child brides.
They are not allowed to promote the murder of Canadians who disagree with them.
All the banks have Sharia law accts and Sharia mortgages if you want one. Kosher too. If you ask your priest he can probably exorcise the bank vault if you ask.

Women in Canada unintentionally circumcise themselves getting piercings done or clitorises torn by piercings. They even do nipples here.

Women here and the world over chose to wear a veil because it is a FASHION trend in many regions. They spend huge bucks on hand stitched silks to look good in their own way. Go to a hajib store and ask the women why they wear it.

Polygamy is not an indictable offense in Canada. Ever heard of Bountiful or Sons of Freedom in BC?

Check the marriage thread there is no lower limit on the age of marriage in Saskatchewan. If they can sign their name in crayon a kid any age can get a court order to be wed straight or gay.

There are chants and rants to incite death in Canada daily. Ever heard a sports fan or a beer soaked drunk that beats and abuses his wife?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Women in Canada unintentionally circumcise themselves getting piercings done or clitorises torn by piercings. They even do nipples here.
Sorry, female circumcision is excising tissue from the vulva of the female, not poking holes in it.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
All the banks have Sharia law accts and Sharia mortgages if you want one. Kosher too. If you ask your priest he can probably exorcise the bank vault if you ask.

Women in Canada unintentionally circumcise themselves getting piercings done or clitorises torn by piercings. They even do nipples here.

Women here and the world over chose to wear a veil because it is a FASHION trend in many regions. They spend huge bucks on hand stitched silks to look good in their own way. Go to a hajib store and ask the women why they wear it.

Polygamy is not an indictable offense in Canada. Ever heard of Bountiful or Sons of Freedom in BC?

Check the marriage thread there is no lower limit on the age of marriage in Saskatchewan. If they can sign their name in crayon a kid any age can get a court order to be wed straight or gay.

There are chants and rants to incite death in Canada daily. Ever heard a sports fan or a beer soaked drunk that beats and abuses his wife?

It appears that you have done a masterful job of misreading my post. Interestingly, you are wrong on every point.
1. I don't have a priest. Also what banks offer to Muslims and Jews is not a law. It is a service offered by the bank. There is a difference.
2. Veils of the sort you refer to are voluntary - not compulsory as they are in many Islamic states.
3. Piercings are not part of any religion. And no one can force circumcision on a woman in Canada as is done in many Muslim nations.
4. I have heard that the Bountiful colony is under criminal investigation for forced marriage. I somehow suspect that what is going on there will eventually lead to criminal convictions.
5. No one is Saskatchewan may marry if they are under the age of 16. And we are talking about prepubescent children here. Not 15 year olds. Saskatchewan Marriage License Information Read the under 18 section.
6. No Muslim cleric in Canada has ever issued a fatwa to condemn another Canadian to death. If he did he would be charged under the law. The only fatwa I know of issued in Canada was one condemning other Muslims who take up acts of terrorism against Canada and other Western states.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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4. I have heard that the Bountiful colony is under criminal investigation for forced marriage. I somehow suspect that what is going on there will eventually lead to criminal convictions.
Actually our brilliant legal system charged Blackmore and Oler with polygamy and they are fighting it under the freedom of religion thingy in the Charter. I doubt very much there will be any convictions. This is one of the stupidest things Wally Oppal could have done as it will only make convicting the two for other crimes like child abuse, forced marriage, marriage to minors, etc. that much harder.
Polygamy charges in Bountiful - The Globe and Mail
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
This proposed Canadian law which dictate how Muslim women must dress in order to recieve government services is un-Canadian and discriminatory:

CBC News - Manitoba - Manitoba Muslim women decry veil limits

While it may be true that some Muslim women are forced to wear burqa and hijabs and I agree that this is a problem, many Muslim woman freely choose to dress this way.

As a proud Canadian who supports multi-culturalism and freedom of religion, I'm embarassed by Canada's Islamphobic bigots on this forum as well as elected officials...
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Actually our brilliant legal system charged Blackmore and Oler with polygamy and they are fighting it under the freedom of religion thingy in the Charter. I doubt very much there will be any convictions. This is one of the stupidest things Wally Oppal could have done as it will only make convicting the two for other crimes like child abuse, forced marriage, marriage to minors, etc. that much harder.
Polygamy charges in Bountiful - The Globe and Mail

Yeah, they should just put the f****rs away for 50 years for kiddy diddling. :smile:
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
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70
Saint John, N.B.
This proposed Canadian law which dictate how Muslim women must dress in order to recieve government services is un-Canadian and discriminatory:

CBC News - Manitoba - Manitoba Muslim women decry veil limits

While it may be true that some Muslim women are forced to wear burqa and hijabs and I agree that this is a problem, many Muslim woman freely choose to dress this way.

As a proud Canadian who supports multi-culturalism and freedom of religion, I'm embarassed by Canada's Islamphobic bigots on this forum as well as elected officials...

Not so.

Covering your face, hiding behind a mask, is considered dubious behaviour at best in western culture. Identification increasingly depends on picture ID....as I well know, as I work security at a port site. No picture ID, no entry. Period.

If you wear the niqab, willingly or not, and refuse to expose your face to a male for identification purposes.....you do not belong in the west.

That simple.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
If you wear the niqab, willingly or not, and refuse to expose your face to a male for identification purposes.....you do not belong in the west.

That simple.
Exactly right, in my not very humble opinion. If you want the personal rights and freedoms modern western democracies give you, then you play by the same rules those of us who were here before you do. You accept the mores of your adopted society, you don't bring with you the rules of the culture you left. Isn't that in some sense why you left?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Exactly right, in my not very humble opinion. If you want the personal rights and freedoms modern western democracies give you, then you play by the same rules those of us who were here before you do. You accept the mores of your adopted society, you don't bring with you the rules of the culture you left. Isn't that in some sense why you left?
If this were so shouldn't we all be wearing buck skins and living in tee pees and long houses?
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
If this were so shouldn't we all be wearing buck skins and living in tee pees and long houses?
No, the situations are not comparable. It's the difference between colonization and conquest, and immigration. That's not to excuse any of the ugliness visited upon North America's aboriginal populations by the European invasion, just a recognition of different historical realities at different times. Knocking off an existing culture--pretty much out of fashion these days--is quite different from bringing in new members of it.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Exactly right, in my not very humble opinion. If you want the personal rights and freedoms modern western democracies give you, then you play by the same rules those of us who were here before you do. You accept the mores of your adopted society, you don't bring with you the rules of the culture you left. Isn't that in some sense why you left?
Dex, we would back GB in a war at the drop of a hat, when should that be left behind as a relic of the 'bad old days', so far, it basically means perpetual war (or at least untold sums spent because of 'threat of war'). By rights we should be able to declare war on GB if she is in violation in the same fashion that is being placed on Muslims in general.

Most that leave a country because of persecution still tend to settle into communities that are very similar to what was left behind. Even the original 'settlers' tended to hang onto their 'likes' and 'dislikes'. Perhaps Muslims should take a poll about being convicted in court of something before being branded as a blight on Society. The 'West' already knows Iraq should have had sanctions lifted rather than being invaded and Afghanistan never had it's day in Court. (in that they would have turned people over after proof of their involvement) That makes the death caused by those action worse because we are claiming the high moral ground at the same time committing a form of genocide. Perhaps a quick look at the last century would show how well segregating minority groups for special treatment worked out, not all that well for the minority in any of the examples to be found.

Asking Muslims for certain things while not delivering a higher standard ourselves does not carry the title more advanced, 100 years ago our women were very modestly dressed, not that unlike from Muslims, although we did have our 'redlight' districts so our 'advancement' was already spawned.

A look through the headlines over the last week/month/year/decade should allow them to be applied to Muslims, and other competing Religions. Wayward Christians (my people) are a blight on the whole Religion and we probably still have the most to do with the seedier side of life, vacations in the far east for sex with minors. If we can, and do label, people with various tags why do we never condemn any of the same things in ourselves.

As for hiding behind a veil that was to stop the fights between men over a woman, 'in the old days' there was no way to curb it and the man was more important to survival than a less strong person. Today we have punishments for those sorts of activities and if you look at the way the ' female city workers' are dressed today no 'construction crew' is going to be blowing wolf whistles. Even our liberated girls still hang a shirt over their butts on certain occasions/places.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
All the banks have Sharia law accts and Sharia mortgages if you want one. Kosher too. If you ask your priest he can probably exorcise the bank vault if you ask.
Islamic banks are still under control of the big European Banks, the 'interest free' loans are calculated with the interest built in before-hand.
 

Ulgundo

Nominee Member
May 15, 2010
76
1
8
31
Turkey
I think striping human beings of their right to practice their beliefs would cause even more violance let along creating a more peaceful enviroment
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I think striping a human beings of their right to practice their beliefs would cause even more violance let along creating a more peaceful enviroment
Thankfully we have Police, Military and several thousand well armed citizens that would make short work of the religiously stupid...;-)