Prostitution: legal-ethical discussion-debate

[cdn_bc_ca]

cdn_bc:

Employment is exploitation. Please, I learned that before I knew my multiplication tables. Hire me as a labourer - you are exploiting human time and ability for gain, as am I. Hire me as a philosopher - you are exploiting human time and ability for gain, as am I.

You're definition of exploitation is no doubt different than mine. My quick search on google yielded this result:
Exploitation: an act that exploits or victimizes someone (treats them unfairly);...

The keyword is "unfair". Are you being treated unfairly?

I know I am being disingenuous - drug addiction as a way to slavery so the pimp can recruit and control his or her prostitute. Sure it happens. Why?

Because it is an illegal trade, silly! How do you do this when the trade is legal, licenses are issued, receipts are given, and medical exams are mandated?

They will continue to do this the same way before it was legal. You can't think of this as totally black or white (illegal or legal). There is also a gray area. What happens to those prostitutes that don't pass the medical exam? Are they going to stop being prostitutes? Probably not.. Are drugs, alchohol, and violence still going to be used to control prostitutes? Probably... Will the pimps disappear when prostitution is legalized? I don't think so, they will probably morph into businessmen and now make their money legally.

 

[Zzarchov]

While they will not stop trying to be prostitutes, they unfortunately won't find any clientelle.

Market forces do come into effect. Outlawing it doesn't work because far too many people say "im against prostitutes" in public and buy their services in private.

Likewise, bootleg prostitutes will be about as popular as bootleg liquer now. How many of you go out and buy moonshine? People still make it after all. Im guessing not many, why buy dangerous moonshine when the liquer store is right there?

Why risk your life with a bootleg prostitute when a fully liscenced one is open 24/7?

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

To the question of ethics: I'm a prostitute, and there is a customer. We negotiate services offered, and what the prices are. We come to terms, have sex, I get paid, and the customer leaves.

It's not that simple. In your previous posts, you were talking about street level hookers... street level hookers are "street level" for a reason... Not the high-end 10,000 dollar a night kind that somebody posted previously. Why? Who knows? Looks, cleanliness, STD, willingness to do anything... the list of probable reasons go on... but one things for sure... the clients that they handle can be the worst. What may begin as a simple negotiation for services can end up being more than what they bargained for. Just think, "street level" prostitutes cater to everyone including the mentally distressed, crazy, con-artists, serial killers, bums, criminals... everyone. I'm sure during the negotiation process, these clients won't reveal their true nature.

 

[Zzarchov]

And why is that? Oh ya, they can't get legal protection so they get preyed upon by pimps who force them under pain of death to do that.

SO the solution them working (for the same wages) in a brothel with a bouncer and the ability to call the cops is worse because?

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

While they will not stop trying to be prostitutes, they unfortunately won't find any clientelle.
...
Why risk your life with a bootleg prostitute when a fully liscenced one is open 24/7?

Easy, price. Just like buying a legal movie costs $20, you can get a bootleg one that's just as good for $2. Also, where else would you go for sex if you got screened at a brothel and failed because you got some problem?

There are some clients that want to remain anonymous and don't want to go through the hassle and cost of getting screened just to get 2 mins of joy.

 

[Zzarchov]

Some yes, but how many people buy bootleg movies VS rent them?

People do still make, sell and buy moonshine too.


You will never get rid of unsavory elements in society, only minimize them. Curently the position you are advocating seems to be "

If you legalize it , some will stay in the same position they are in now, lets keep the status quo and have ALL of them in the same position.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

And why is that? Oh ya, they can't get legal protection so they get preyed upon by pimps who force them under pain of death to do that.

SO the solution them working (for the same wages) in a brothel with a bouncer and the ability to call the cops is worse because?

There is no guarantee that legalizing prostition will magically take them ALL off the streets. I understand the benefits of legalizing prostitution (ie. Health benefits, WCB, Protection, unionization, etc), but it doesn't really solve the problem. Sure, some will migrate from the streets to the brothel, but what about the rest?

You mention market forces in your previous post... yes, I agree, so now brothels will be popping up everywhere. All competing for business... which means that there will be hiring practices for prostitutes that cater to the tastes of clients. The desired prostitutes will make it into the brothel while others may not. Which leads us back to square one... where do think the undesired prostitutes will end up? Where do you think undesired clients will go looking for enjoyment?

Anyway, last time I checked, prositutes are still allowed to call the cops. It's not like the cops are going to say.. "Oh well, too bad, you're a prostitute. We can't help you."

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Some yes, but how many people buy bootleg movies VS rent them?

People do still make, sell and buy moonshine too.


You will never get rid of unsavory elements in society, only minimize them. Curently the position you are advocating seems to be "

If you legalize it , some will stay in the same position they are in now, lets keep the status quo and have ALL of them in the same position.

No. that's not my position. My understanding is that legalizing it would help the worst of the worst in the sex trade by providing them with benefits, rights, protection, etc. However, as I've tried to explain, I've come to the conclusion that it's not really going to work. The worst of the worst will still be that way and the decent ones (who demand the big bucks) are most likely already in escort services, brothels, instead of out on the street.

I'm all for legalizing prostitution if the solution works to help the worst of the worst prostitutes... because they are the ones who are suffering.

Some yes, but how many people buy bootleg movies VS rent them?

If it is any indicator of what the MPAA and RIAA are doing to quell illegal activities, there is more than you think... especially if you look long enough you can get it for free in the comfort of your own home.

 

[Twila]

I think the statistics from Holland speak for themselves in regards to the effects of legalized prositution.

 

[Zzarchov]

CDN_BC_CA: About movies:

almost nobody BUYS bootleg movies. Bootleg movies being given for free are another matter though.

But that equivalency in prostitution land would be People giving sex away for free. And thats perfectly legal as is, and I don't think you could ever convince people to stay away from that.

 

[Twila]

CDN_BC_CA: About movies:

almost nobody BUYS bootleg movies. Bootleg movies being given for free are another matter though.

You should go to the Vancouver Flea Market, Cloverdale flea Market and some of the smaller venues . It's a huge business.

 

[DurkaDurka]

You should go to the Vancouver Flea Market, Cloverdale flea Market and some of the smaller venues . It's a huge business.

A huge business of selliing cam versions of movies mostly... I wouldn't pay $1.00 for one of them, the quality is abysmal.

 

[Unforgiven]

There is no guarantee that legalizing prostition will magically take them ALL off the streets. I understand the benefits of legalizing prostitution (ie. Health benefits, WCB, Protection, unionization, etc), but it doesn't really solve the problem. Sure, some will migrate from the streets to the brothel, but what about the rest?

You mention market forces in your previous post... yes, I agree, so now brothels will be popping up everywhere. All competing for business... which means that there will be hiring practices for prostitutes that cater to the tastes of clients. The desired prostitutes will make it into the brothel while others may not. Which leads us back to square one... where do think the undesired prostitutes will end up? Where do you think undesired clients will go looking for enjoyment?

Anyway, last time I checked, prositutes are still allowed to call the cops. It's not like the cops are going to say.. "Oh well, too bad, you're a prostitute. We can't help you."

So those who don't get arrested and a stiff fine. No pun intended.
There will always be street walkers but that isn't a prostitution problem as much as it's a substance abuse problem. Take a harm reduction approach to that and I would suggest that the problem would become so small that you could call it virtually not existent.

But the benefits are through the roof.

 

[Twila]

A huge business of selliing cam versions of movies mostly... I wouldn't pay $1.00 for one of them, the quality is abysmal.

Completely abysmal. We purchased a dvd of a very famous Indian musician. Because the cover art was good and it was shrink wrapped we had no idea it wasn't real. That's where they get ya sometimes. By creating quality covers but poor copies.

 

[Zzarchov]

You should go to the Vancouver Flea Market, Cloverdale flea Market and some of the smaller venues . It's a huge business.

Now compare that to the 3 or 4 movie rental places every other block and the Pay per View in peoples homes.

Its "Huge" business in the same way that making a million dollars is alot, until you realise the rest of the market is several billion dollars.

 

[Twila]

I'd say 3 billion usd a year is a lot of money to loose. According to this article that's how much pirated movies have cost the movie industry.

http://www.langara.bc.ca/prm/2003/dvd.html

According to the MPAA official website, the US motion picture industry loses more than $3 billion US per year because of the world-wide pirating of American films.

However, after all the attempts to stifle the sale of bootlegged DVDs, the market still thrives. Police officers admit the situation is out of control. Although it is difficult to account for just how much money the DVD bootlegging industry generates in Vancouver, Fisher estimates at least $10 million worth of illegal materials are sold in Vancouver per year.

 

[Zzarchov]

$10 million a year in vancouver is chump change compared to the rental revenues.

$10 million dollars worth of sales wouldn't keep more than a dozen and change rental stores (blockbuster, jumbo video, rogers, not to mention no names local stores) operating at break even.

Vancouver has many, many more than a dozen rental places.


As for the MPAA, ignore what they say as garbage. Part of their logic includes that if someone in mumbai makes a bootleg copy of Bend it like Beckham, they have just lost a $25 sale. The reason they inflate the numbers so drastically is because they are used as a basis for how much money they get from people buying blank media as a subsidy.

Ie, When you buy a blank cassette (VHS or other), Blank DVD, blank CD (they were talking about flash memory and Ipods too), they get a share of the cash. Even if you have legitimate uses for the DVD or CD (which I do, I write software for a living, I don't like the Idea of paying them so I can store my own work)

Inflating the numbers means they get a higher percentage from that. So I wouldn't trust their own numbers as far as I can throw them, its like asking someone how much they lost in a fire so you can reimburse them (and reminding them you won't check anyways)

 

[Twila]

Zzarchov, I (finally) see what your saying. However, I wonder if the rental revenues will hold with increasing pirating and bootlegging?

 

[Agimat]

I'm somewhat curious about this comment. The only possible thing you could mean is that MEN are inferior.

No you misunderstand me, I see women and men are not equal per se in that we have different bodies and different duties, like I find it stupid that women are in the military as they are not rational enough as a male, and not strong enough, end of story. And there are many qualities a women has that a man does not, such as a woman's incredible ability at mulit-tasking, understanding their children, and alot of jobs in society that women are better at, in somejobs such as councellours others that I don't have time to think of but you get my point right?

 

[Agimat]

Good post!

Well make sure you don't give aids to anyone