N.Y. cop not indicted in choke hold death

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Columnist George Will argued that the death of Eric Garner was the consequence of "imbecilic networks of laws" making legitimate law enforcement tactics "becom[ing] manic," and "its own sense of disorder, own cause of disorder" on Thursday's broadcast of "Special Report" on the Fox News Channel.

Regarding the specific charges, Will said "if a chokehold which has been banned for 21 years by the New York Police Department was used, that would seem to constitute recklessly causing a death. Now, it's not clear it was a chokehold, they say 'well, what was used was a takedown.' But it was after that that something that looks like a chokehold was used on this 42-year-old man, and in fact, when the Police Benevolent Association [spokesman] spoke earlier on our show on the tape, he said 'it was not a choke hold that caused his death.' Now that was a sort of veiled reference to the other health problems that the deceased had."
Will continued, "there's another thing that ought to be said about this. This is the intersection, this whole episode of something very good with something very bad. The very good thing is broken windows policing that says if you don't repair broken windows, if you don't stop the people who jump turnstiles, you have a general sense of disorder and it spirals out of control. That's fine. But, then when you add to that imbecilic networks of laws, such as a law forbidding people to sell loose cigarettes, then you get broken windows becom[ing] manic. And it becomes its own sense of disorder, own cause of disorder."


George Will: 'Imbecilic Networks of Laws' Become 'Own Cause of Disorder'

my emphasis


You expect anything different from HuffPost??

Of course, that may just be my hurt feelings......they banned me from posting there without warning or referencing what I had done that so upset their editors.........

:)
 

WLDB

Senate Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Of course, that may just be my hurt feelings......they banned me from posting there without warning or referencing what I had done that so upset their editors.........

:)

Yeah Im sure that broke your heart. :p
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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HuffPost??

George Will is a conservative. He is the one expressing this view about government abuse. He is hardly alone as other right wingers have said the same.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
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Yeah Im sure that broke your heart. :p

It did actually.....I was having a lot of fun with the anti-gun folks. Doing the math for them. They didn't like it.

HuffPost??

George Will is a conservative. He is the one expressing this view about government abuse. He is hardly alone as other right wingers have said the same.

Sorry Gopher.....I was referencing another post. I know George Will is conservative.....and usually correct. :)
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Columnist George Will argued that the death of Eric Garner was the consequence of "imbecilic networks of laws" making legitimate law enforcement tactics "becom[ing] manic," and "its own sense of disorder, own cause of disorder" on Thursday's broadcast of "Special Report" on the Fox News Channel.

Regarding the specific charges, Will said "if a chokehold which has been banned for 21 years by the New York Police Department was used, that would seem to constitute recklessly causing a death. Now, it's not clear it was a chokehold, they say 'well, what was used was a takedown.' But it was after that that something that looks like a chokehold was used on this 42-year-old man, and in fact, when the Police Benevolent Association [spokesman] spoke earlier on our show on the tape, he said 'it was not a choke hold that caused his death.' Now that was a sort of veiled reference to the other health problems that the deceased had."
Will continued, "there's another thing that ought to be said about this. This is the intersection, this whole episode of something very good with something very bad. The very good thing is broken windows policing that says if you don't repair broken windows, if you don't stop the people who jump turnstiles, you have a general sense of disorder and it spirals out of control. That's fine. But, then when you add to that imbecilic networks of laws, such as a law forbidding people to sell loose cigarettes, then you get broken windows becom[ing] manic. And it becomes its own sense of disorder, own cause of disorder."


George Will: 'Imbecilic Networks of Laws' Become 'Own Cause of Disorder'

my emphasis



You expect anything different from HuffPost??

Of course, that may just be my hurt feelings......they banned me from posting there without warning or referencing what I had done that so upset their editors.........

:)


I think if Huffington Post can print F U C K this forum should accept it without bleeping it!:)
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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I havent seen anyone on this thread tarring all cops with the same brush. The cops should care about this too. It is these individuals who make the rest of them look bad. There are bad people in every profession. As with any profession the bad apples should be routed out.

That's the double standard that exists. I'm quite sure Capt is completely in favour of getting rid of bad teachers or, at the very least, holding them accountable bu he likes to turn the other cheek when it comes to cops. I suspect he probably has one in his family. I think in Loc's case he just gets off on the idea of poor, black or homeless people getting off'd.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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The NYPD went after him in force because he was selling cigarettes.

Wait a minute... they went after him because he is selling cigarettes? Of all the felonious crimes going on in New York City they are going after a cigarette peddler?

Oh yes... never get in the way of a liberal big city government and their taxes. That is why the NYPD went after him in force. What is the tax on a pack of smokes now in NYC? $3-$5? Mr. Garner was getting in between the city and their money and that simply could not stand.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
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The NYPD went after him in force because he was selling cigarettes.

Wait a minute... they went after him because he is selling cigarettes? Of all the felonious crimes going on in New York City they are going after a cigarette peddler?

Oh yes... never get in the way of a liberal big city government and their taxes. That is why the NYPD went after him in force. What is the tax on a pack of smokes now in NYC? $3-$5? Mr. Garner was getting in between the city and their money and that simply could not stand.

and they'd gone after(warned) him before. I guesst this was the final solution to his not ceasing. It sounds very much like Mafia methods...if the mafia existed...
 

personal touch

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Sep 17, 2014
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let us remember this whole ordeal is over "loose cigarettes",anyone who goes to work and feels this is something worthy to be taking people and stomping on their windpipe for such a menial cause, is more then crazy.I feel sorry for the Officers who came to assist in a secondary manner,did they really want to participate in such bad behaviour over cigarettes.Regardless of the crime noone needs to be treated so heavy handed.i can honestly say i have learnt this the hard way,and i am here to tell my employer it would never happen again,and employers should not encourage such behaviour,it should be nipped in the ***.i would refuse to take such action for such a silly use of resources,my wrestling days are over,i hope they are if anything.The NY police department should be ashamed and embarrassed for such actions.
During the video of the events that had occured,the public should have more questions and curosities then satisfaction this is a chance occurance,
the EMT who arrived on the scene presented as "acting",and demonstrated they had been here before,they seem to have all the right moves, the public should be interested in these moves,the public should be interested in how EMT responders collect information when arriving to a scence which involves police restraint.i cannot believe they left those handcuffs on, this should have been her first order, to remove those handcuffs.and proper teachers should have identified this as her first priority,did she know this was all about cigarettes,why she did not order removal of those cuffs is beyond me.
Just as the EMT had demonstrated they had some fancy moves,the police officers involved looked like they had visited these actions before and felt very comfortable with their actions,the public should demand a comprehensive history of the police officiers involved,particularly the gorilla looking Officer.The owness should be put on the NYPD for explanation and review,they seem a little low profile,an independent study ,(as i assume the NYPD has already launched their own investigation) should be implemented ASAP,where the owness starts and ends in this tragic case should not be overlooked,and i am certain with the exampling of all involved parties there are more victims to bad behaviour,i think we are skimming the surface of poor behaviour and the proof is in the information process including the information collected of the first responders,the whole system presented as staged,this tells me the public is really in trouble.
i just don't understand why resources would be expanded on such a small crime,how many Officers were there at the scene,i counted quite a few.i hope an information audit is implemented.of course we are going to see an abandoment of the Officers involved, this is also a pitty ,instead of shaping behaviour through information collection,it is shaped through tolerance of information manipulation,and when the actions are revealed the "did not know"card is played by upper management,society does not gain, the justice system orthe people within the Justice system have no capacity of power, just as we have seen with this New York case, but in reality it exists all over the world.

i could talk about the Supreme Court of Canada's diminishing capacity to serve the Canadian public for days,but i will spare you all
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Peter King is correct is saying that Garner had serious medical issues.. obesity, asthma, heart disease.. which supports a case for a reduction of a charge against Officer Pantaleo.. but only to the extent that this was a contributing factor to his death. It did nothing to mediate a charge of Aggravated Assault for the use of the chokehold in the first place.

I've had some experience in judo and i'm quite aware of the chokehold that was used. It cuts off circulation to brain and will cause unconsciousness in seconds, which is why our instructors never allowed us to use it with any force. It can also cause arithmea and cessation of breathing even in healthy individuals.. that's why the NYPD banned it.

Keep in mind what Garner was doing. He was legally buying a pack of tax stamped cigarettes and selling them singly for a dollar on the street. If he had a good stint, he might sell the pack in hour, and make $15. This is little more than panhandling. I've heard some legal pundits question whether this is even a crime. In any case, it is utterly trivial. As far as i could see he surrounded by 6 officers in full body armour, pistols, tasers in the application of aggressive and overwhelming force that goes for 'good' policing these days.

I've seen many familiar faces like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton try to hi-jack this issue a 'race' issue. It really isn't. It's a policing issue. It's a issue of NYPD tactics under Commissioner William Bratton.. who set the climate for this incident.

It's also an issue of rogue cops. They represent perhaps 5% of a police force and are actuated by amorphous anger and a need to dominate and control situations with violence. Many of them have lousy records of bullying and domestic violence outside their jobs and policing is just a legal way to vent their seething resentment. They carry with them, in their orbit, perhaps another 15 or 20 per cent of the force who look to them as examples.

They are offset by at least as many honest officers committed to the art, tact and diplomacy of police work. They have a genuine vocation to serve and protect the most vulnerable in society.. using the minimum force to achieve that. NOTHING could be further from that to what happened on the streets of Staten Island. These cops are just a lodestone around the policemen interested in truly effective policing.

I'm convinced the officer will be fired.. or 'forced to resign' and i think its likely that he will charged federally. But i don't think it will stop there. This was a direct result of Commissioner Bratton's leadership, and lack thereof, to create a constructive dialogue and relationship with the force's communities. I think this should cost him his job as well.
 
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Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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let us remember this whole ordeal is over "loose cigarettes"

"stomping on their windpipe"

bitch please. :lol:

let us remember this guy was out on bail for bootlegging smokes...oh and...

Garner had been previously arrested and was out on bail for selling untaxed cigarettes, driving without a license, marijuana possession, and false personation. Garner had a criminal record that includes more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest, grand larceny. An official said the charges include multiple incidents in which he was arrested for selling unlicensed cigarettes.[23][24][25]

that doesn't excuse the buckaroo rogue cop and his questionable 'chokehold' while his black female police sergeant supervisor on scene just stood around but again, if the big boy hadda gone downtown, he'd still be alive...unless he had his heart attack coming to him anyway, who friggin' knows.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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Not even one. Is this what we have come to? Not even one police officer cared enough to stop the murder of this man? They are all guilty. Not just the officer that put him in the chokehold or seatbelt hold or whatever kind of hold you want to call it. Politicians are guilty because they are stark raving mad. Money hungry lunatics! To insure their accounts continue to fill with money they tax every last item in creation. Still they are not content. They enlist the tax payer funded police to hunt down the "thugs" selling lone cigarettes.

The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. WHEN I WAS BEING ASPHYXIATED BY THE POLICE, YOU DID NOT STOP THEM’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


Police "training", new "arrest protocols", and racial harmony classes, will not fix this. Rather, the end of days is near. Did no one care about that man? Not even one? What has gone wrong? The humanists like to bellow from the rooftop and extol the excellence of the human heart. What a fine example of HUMANITY!

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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and they'd gone after(warned) him before. I guesst this was the final solution to his not ceasing. It sounds very much like Mafia methods...if the mafia existed...

You can't get in the way of the city and their tax flow. So this does explain the city sending a Police Task Force after a cigarette peddler.

And now that the cigarette peddler was killed the city is trying to wash their hands of it and blame the cops they sent for the unintended hit.

And the mob is buying it! You can't fight city hall but you surely can fight the cops.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Of course, that may just be my hurt feelings......they banned me from posting there without warning or referencing what I had done that so upset their editors.........
Rumor Central has it was due to your haircut.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Police departments around the country are beginning to complain that widespread criticism of the institution of law enforcement is making it harder for them to find people who want to work as police officers.
The recent events in Ferguson, they say, are partly to blame for the backlash against police.
But many of us know that Ferguson is only the tip of the iceberg — underneath the surface, there are thousands of other cases of beating, raping, and killing, all committed by an institution that is supposedly here to “protect” us.


Departments Now “Having Hard Time” Finding People Who Want to Be Police Officers, Blaming Social Media | Filming Cops
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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Here's where I have the problem Goobs... The police perform an incredibly difficult job and service to our commuities, They are constantly derided for the flaws and failures of a select few - tarred with the same brush regardless of the circumstance and situation. They have one of the most thankless jobs possible and are questioned every step of the way.

It's amazing that people can comment on the police getting away with murder and say it's the police who aren't treated fairly. The police should be questioned every step of the way. Society gives them a lot of power and power is easily abused. We need to make sure the police are held to account for that abuse. Are they questioned every step of the way? Well, you might have heard about this case where a police officer strangled a man to death, was filmed, had zero justification and was not charged for it.

From what I've seen, the officer in this case was way out of line.

That's putting it mildly. Maybe channel some of that headscarf rage this way.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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It never does the dead any good but people still do it.



No. :(



I havent seen anyone on this thread tarring all cops with the same brush. The cops should care about this too. It is these individuals who make the rest of them look bad. There are bad people in every profession. As with any profession the bad apples should be routed out.
oh no nuance capable in this place...only all or nothing...that is the way it has to be