N.Y. cop not indicted in choke hold death

[JLM]

It's amazing that people can comment on the police getting away with murder and say it's the police who aren't treated fairly. The police should be questioned every step of the way. Society gives them a lot of power and power is easily abused. We need to make sure the police are held to account for that abuse. Are they questioned every step of the way? Well, you might have heard about this case where a police officer strangled a man to death, was filmed, had zero justification and was not charged for it.

Actually the Capt. makes a good point. Every occupation has it's share of F**k ups be it doctor, plumber or preacher. Much of the police's contact is with the lowest dregs of society, the pimps, pushers, the scammers and sometimes when you are called a pig often enough and your face spat on you wonder if it's all worth it. There's probably 10%-15% of the force who shouldn't be there, but they are hard to identify when they first go for training and by the time it's detected many $thousands have been invested in them. I do believe for the first five years they should be issued with a bicycle and a flashlight until they can prove themselves.

 

[WLDB]

There's probably 10%-15% of the force who shouldn't be there, but they are hard to identify when they first go for training and by the time it's detected many $thousands have been invested in them.

Well one has been identified and he is getting off Scot free. By not doing anything about these types of cops once identified the police force makes the whole organization look bad.

 

[Corduroy]

Actually the Capt. makes a good point. Every occupation has it's share of F**k ups be it doctor, plumber or preacher. Much of the police's contact is with the lowest dregs of society, the pimps, pushers, the scammers and sometimes when you are called a pig often enough and your face spat on you wonder if it's all worth it. There's probably 10%-15% of the force who shouldn't be there, but they are hard to identify when they first go for training and by the time it's detected many $thousands have been invested in them. I do believe for the first five years they should be issued with a bicycle and a flashlight until they can prove themselves.

That's nice. Bicycles, great. How about the police also be held accountable for when they strangle innocent people in the street?

 

[JLM]

That's nice. Bicycles, great. How about the police also be held accountable for when they strangle innocent people in the street?

All we know here is what we hear on the news. Do we know that cop hadn't encountered that guy 50 times before? We actually have no idea whether he was an "innocent" person.

 

[Corduroy]

All we know here is what we hear on the news. Do we know that cop hadn't encountered that guy 50 times before? We actually have no idea whether he was an "innocent" person.

There's video of the encounter. Have you seen it?

 

[JLM]

There's video of the encounter. Have you seen it?

Nope - Would lay people like myself even know how to interpret it. How much of the video are we being shown. How much other sh*t happened that is not on video? How many other previous encounters were there? Do all these protestors have all the knowledge that is available or is it just a rat pack mentality driving it?

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

OK you run up on an individual.. 1. to intimidate and threaten, show of power..

2. A fella is standing there with a gun in his hand.. could be pointing down.. the minute he starts to raise his gun you shoot..

Please supply link to video you watched..

Unless you are just repeating others statements and you really never watched the video..

"A contentious fact does not become uncontentious by virtue of repetition."

I'm looking at the tactics. The alleged armed assailant had no hostage, therefore Police should have stayed well enough back to assess the situation instead of sliding in and firing their weapons. A little time could have saved this kids life, it looks pretty reckless. He wasn't a 17 year old, he was 12 years old.

Hardly a gang banger.

 

[captain morgan]

From you, I got the exact response I'd expect from an imbecile

A sad respone from one that believes themselves an intellectual giant.

Keep aiming high bud, maybe some day you'll get there although I highly doubt it

 

[Ron in Regina]

Peter King is correct is saying that Garner had serious medical issues.. obesity, asthma, heart disease.. which supports a case for a reduction of a charge against Officer Pantaleo.. but only to the extent that this was a contributing factor to his death. It did nothing to mediate a charge of Aggravated Assault for the use of the chokehold in the first place.

I'm not attacking your position here at all, but as far as any medical issues go (high
blood pressure, asthma, obesity, herpes, whatever.....), is any of it relevant at all in
the choice of a victim if he happens to die due to their actions??? Choking someone
and all of the bodies piled onto his chest, ect..., with his head cranked over even if this
dude wasn't in his 40's, or obese, or had a heart condition, or had halitosis, or asthma,
or athletes foot, could very well have killed him. It's not like any of this was taken into
consideration when this incidence went down...making it irrelevant. Dudes heath, or lack
there of, is a non-issue in his death.

Personally, I believe if this dude was 5'2" and 100lbs and a woman, he'd be alive today
'cuz nobody earns any cred' in taking down a tiny woman with that kind'a force in a "look
at the hero I am in choking out this giant!" sort'a thing. It's the little-big man compensation
sort'a thing. Sad....pack of freaking heros....not.

My boy is a gentle giant in his own right, and has dealt with this malarkey, with much restraint,
most of his life....knowing that if he was involved....nobody would believe that he didn't start
things. I've seen it and it is truly sad in a 'compensating for a tiny *****' sort of way. Below is
a picture of my son at 15yrs of age (in the passenger's seat).

 

[Locutus]

My boy is a gentle giant in his own right, and has dealt with this malarkey, with much restraint,
most of his life....knowing that if he was involved....nobody would believe that he didn't start
things. I've seen it and it is truly sad in a 'compensating for a tiny *****' sort of way. Below is
a picture of my son at 15yrs of age (in the passenger's seat).

Holy moly. 8O

 

[Ron in Regina]

I've had some experience in judo and i'm quite aware of the chokehold that was used. It cuts off circulation to brain and will cause unconsciousness in seconds, which is why our instructors never allowed us to use it with any force. It can also cause arithmea and cessation of breathing even in healthy individuals.. that's why the NYPD banned it.

Me too in a peripheral sort of way (like the guy in this match below, I was
also a plumber in Regina). Anyone who follows Judo (or MMA) would know
the below match is over (baseball choke) 8-9 seconds in, but it's not a
common move yet, and even the referee didn't realize what happened at
the time (& should'a elevated dudes feet to get the blood flowing back into
his head quickly). Seconds after his opponent is out, they separate, and
everybody lives. Imagine that. Proper training I guess....

 

[gopher]

The NYPD went after him in force because he was selling cigarettes.

Wait a minute... they went after him because he is selling cigarettes? Of all the felonious crimes going on in New York City they are going after a cigarette peddler?

Oh yes... never get in the way of a liberal big city government and their taxes. That is why the NYPD went after him in force. What is the tax on a pack of smokes now in NYC? $3-$5? Mr. Garner was getting in between the city and their money and that simply could not stand.

I believe we have discussed this before - NYC police do NOT enforce or collect cigarette taxes. That is done by New York City Department of Finance. I dealt with those folks when I was an IRS agent for many years.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Holy moly. 8O

12yrs later....you should see him now!

Still if he was involved in any physical confrontation, few would
believe that he didn't start it. That's my boy on the bottom below.

Society's reaction to flaws from police is not congruent with flaws from other professions that result in harm or death, and relative to the recent events, the pall is cast over 'The Police' - not just the specific officer involved

No one riots for weeks when a Dr. makes a mistake in q diagnosis or conflicts in medical prescriptions with a patient.

They are a target of convenience

Yeah, things are a little different though. Show me a video on YouTube of four
Doctors with nightsticks beating a man on the side of the road, or physical
assaulting and then electrocuting some dude with a tazer in an airport, or
half a dozen Doctors choking and piling onto some guy on the street until he
expires of asphyxiation. Substitute the word Plumbers for Doctors above and
it's just as ludicrous. Most interactions with Plumbers or Doctors or Pizza
Delivery Guys are not potentially fatal whether you are doing something wrong,
or not.

 

[Locutus]

NYPD shuts down the party.

a spritz of troll-repellent.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I was expecting something like this hours ago, but figured with the time difference
that it had wound up for the night. Protests in the Apple Store & Macey's seemed
way to convienient (& bizzare) as opposed to a public place like a park where the
media could focus on the event. The whole "keep it moving" thing was stinky too.

If a riot was to break out (match to the powder-keg), it might as well be in the Apple
store so the rioters (future looters?) could multitask and get some X-Mas shopping
done at the same time.

 

[Cliffy]

Looks like things are going to escalate. A friend remarked tonight that maybe that is their plan: cause riots so martial law can be put in place. We'll see.

 

[captain morgan]

It's amazing that people can comment on the police getting away with murder and say it's the police who aren't treated fairly. The police should be questioned every step of the way.

This circumstance isn't about cops not being questioned every step of the way... Apparently this guy was questioned, his actions reviewed by a Grand Jury and it was determined that he would not be indicted.... You (and many others) disagree with that judgement and therefore deem the death as murder.

Apparently, it was considered such, so all that leaves is your opinion

We need to make sure the police are held to account for that abuse. Are they questioned every step of the way?

The review process did exactly that.

Well, you might have heard about this case where a police officer strangled a man to death, was filmed, had zero justification and was not charged for it.

Are you referring to this case that has been reviewed by the police dept in addition to a Grand Jury that resulted in this cops actions not being deemed as murder?.... Is this the case you're talking about?

 

[Corduroy]

Nope

Watch the video. Educate yourself.

Are you referring to this case that has been reviewed by the police dept in addition to a Grand Jury that resulted in this cops actions not being deemed as murder?.... Is this the case you're talking about?

Yes, that is the case I'm talking about.

 

[petros]

You don't like guns and you don't like the people with guns that we are supposed to call when we need a person with a gun?

The 400 pounder shouldn't have resisted arrest if he was too obese to be in a position people who resist arrest end up in.

 

[SLM]

Yeah, things are a little different though. Show me a video on YouTube of four
Doctors with nightsticks beating a man on the side of the road, or physical
assaulting and then electrocuting some dude with a tazer in an airport, or
half a dozen Doctors choking and piling onto some guy on the street until he
expires of asphyxiation. Substitute the word Plumbers for Doctors above and
it's just as ludicrous. Most interactions with Plumbers or Doctors or Pizza
Delivery Guys are not potentially fatal whether you are doing something wrong,
or not.

To be fair though Ron, most interactions with police officers are not potentially fatal whether you are doing something wrong or not either. And that notion does tend to get lost in the furor of these incidents too.

But, having said that, I agree with what you're saying to a point. Is it a problem of perception on the part of society though or an actual problem? Or maybe both? I found this article pretty interesting.

Cops who kill and the limits of self-regulation

Specifically this section:

The set of circumstances in which outsiders should be reluctant to judge the behaviour of a powerful occupational group is pretty strictly limited to circumstances in which the members of that group do a good job of monitoring their own behaviour and enforcing standards that serve the public well.

Are they doing a good job of monitoring their own behaviour? I'll admit it doesn't appear to be so, but since I don't know specifically what transpired inside the grand jury, I am reluctant to judge definitively and conclusively. What I can and will judge them on is a lousy track record of police agencies addressing the public's fears and doubts in any sort of manner, directly or indirectly, to assure the public that they can indeed be trusted. I think they do a horrible job of doing that and are they're own worst enemies that way.