Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza
- Thread starter gore0bsessed
- Start date
Oh I completely understand the point - even to your twisted little end of it. Do you understand that making a lie of part of it makes a lie of it ALL?
Respect is something you earn - NOT demand.
One shouldn't go calling hypocrite until one's own closet is clean.
Dresden and Tokyo weren't bombed by their own armed forces
I do not support or excuse violence for any reason. I support universal, fundamental human rights.
Both Gazans and Syrians have lacked these rights for decades. The Assad regime is about to discover that denying fundamental rights is a bad an idea. Everyone should note the consequences.
If I recall you are on the record as saying that only killing 1000 innocent civilians every 3 weeks shows amazing restraint and care.
Most of the people the Syrian government has killed have been in street battles with armed militants including members of radical Islamist groups and foreign mercenaries. Granted many armed militants are also ordinary Syrians fighting against injustice and oppression and many other casualties are innocent civilians. That sounds very similar to what the government of Israel faced in Gaza back at the time the MP in the Opening Post described the Israeli government as acting like Nazis in Germany. (For the record, I oppose the Assad regime for many of the same reasons why I oppose the Netanyahu regime.)
By your reasoning, oppressive regimes have a right to defend themselves from attack. Both the Syrian and Israeli governments are threatened by armed militants. Since you wrote that a 1000 dead civilians every 3 weeks shows amazing restraint and care, let's do the math to see how the Assad regime's level of restraint and care measures up with Israel's amazing level of restraint and care.
The Syrian uprising stated 15 March 2011. (70 weeks ago)
70 weeks / 3 x 1000 civilians = 23,333 dead innocent civilians
Latest casualty numbers:
July 19, 2012: Russia and China veto for a third time. This time Britain, France, United States, Germany and Portugal want sanctions added to a resolution which would renew the UN Supervision Mission in Syria. Rejecting sanctions against its ally, Russia says the west is seeking “military intervention” in Syria. Eleven countries voted in favor, Russia and China against, South Africa and Pakistan abstained. Activists say more than 17,000 have died in Syria.
UN Syria resolutions — three vetos
Many/most of these people are probably armed militants, but let's assume the anti-Syrian activists' estimates are accurate (and not inflated to suit their purposes) and 100% of these 17,000 dead are all innocent civilians (unlikely/impossible). By your words, it would be reasonable to assume that you would also describe Syrian government as acting with amazing level of restraint and care.
Would you agree that the Syrian government is acting with more restraint and care than the Israelis did during the 2008/2009 siege of Gaza? Would you agree that the Syrian government is not deliberately killing innocent civilians?
If not, then please explain why the Israeli government can kill innocent civilians at a greater rate than the Syrian government?
Also please compare the level of rights and freedoms enjoyed the citizens of Syrians and the non-citizen residents of Gaza?
Areas of comparison:
Freedom of the press and of other media of communication
Freedom of peaceful assembly
Freedom of association.
Mobility rights: the right to enter and leave national boundaries, to move to and take up residence anywhere within or outside the state.
The right to life, liberty, and security of the person
Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
Freedom from arbitrary detention or imprisonment
Equal treatment before and under the law, and equal protection and benefit of the law without discrimination.
Which oppressive and unjust government discriminates more on the basis of religion? The Jewish State of Israel or the Secular State of Syria?
Which group of people suffers greater oppression and injustice?
Do you believe that people who suffer oppression and injustice have a right to seek freedom annd justice in both Gaza and Syria? Is violence in pursuit of freedom and justice justified in either case?
BTW, these questions aren't just directed at anyone. I invite anyone to add their 2 cents....
Regarding the events... The success of the uprising is now more based on mercenaries, mostly foreign financial and material support and probably very advanced technology.
My position: I favor regime change in Syria, provided the new government is more fair and just.
Both Gazans and Syrians have lacked these rights for decades. The Assad regime is about to discover that denying fundamental rights is a bad an idea. Everyone should note the consequences.
If this uprising is successful, many innocent people (mostly Christians, Alawites and most of Syria's wealthy elite ruling class) and will be killed or forced to flee Syria. TIt could be argued that these people face an existential threat and are defending themselves.
If I recall you are on the record as saying that only killing 1000 innocent civilians every 3 weeks shows amazing restraint and care.
Most of the people the Syrian government has killed have been in street battles with armed militants including members of radical Islamist groups and foreign mercenaries. Granted many armed militants are also ordinary Syrians fighting against injustice and oppression and many other casualties are innocent civilians. That sounds very similar to what the government of Israel faced in Gaza back at the time the MP in the Opening Post described the Israeli government as acting like Nazis in Germany. (For the record, I oppose the Assad regime for many of the same reasons why I oppose the Netanyahu regime.)
By your reasoning, oppressive regimes have a right to defend themselves from attack. Both the Syrian and Israeli governments are threatened by armed militants. Since you wrote that a 1000 dead civilians every 3 weeks shows amazing restraint and care, let's do the math to see how the Assad regime's level of restraint and care measures up with Israel's amazing level of restraint and care.
The Syrian uprising stated 15 March 2011. (70 weeks ago)
70 weeks / 3 x 1000 civilians = 23,333 dead innocent civilians
Latest casualty numbers:
July 19, 2012: Russia and China veto for a third time. This time Britain, France, United States, Germany and Portugal want sanctions added to a resolution which would renew the UN Supervision Mission in Syria. Rejecting sanctions against its ally, Russia says the west is seeking “military intervention” in Syria. Eleven countries voted in favor, Russia and China against, South Africa and Pakistan abstained. Activists say more than 17,000 have died in Syria.
UN Syria resolutions — three vetos
Many/most of these people are probably armed militants, but let's assume the anti-Syrian activists' estimates are accurate (and not inflated to suit their purposes) and 100% of these 17,000 dead are all innocent civilians (unlikely/impossible). By your words, it would be reasonable to assume that you would also describe Syrian government as acting with amazing level of restraint and care.
Would you agree that the Syrian government is acting with more restraint and care than the Israelis did during the 2008/2009 siege of Gaza? Would you agree that the Syrian government is not deliberately killing innocent civilians?
If not, then please explain why the Israeli government can kill innocent civilians at a greater rate than the Syrian government?
Also please compare the level of rights and freedoms enjoyed the citizens of Syrians and the non-citizen residents of Gaza?
Areas of comparison:
Freedom of the press and of other media of communication
Freedom of peaceful assembly
Freedom of association.
Mobility rights: the right to enter and leave national boundaries, to move to and take up residence anywhere within or outside the state.
The right to life, liberty, and security of the person
Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
Freedom from arbitrary detention or imprisonment
Equal treatment before and under the law, and equal protection and benefit of the law without discrimination.
Which oppressive and unjust government discriminates more on the basis of religion? The Jewish State of Israel or the Secular State of Syria?
Which group of people suffers greater oppression and injustice?
Do you believe that people who suffer oppression and injustice have a right to seek freedom annd justice in both Gaza and Syria? Is violence in pursuit of freedom and justice justified in either case?
BTW, these questions aren't just directed at anyone. I invite anyone to add their 2 cents....
Regarding the events... The success of the uprising is now more based on mercenaries, mostly foreign financial and material support and probably very advanced technology.
My position: I favor regime change in Syria, provided the new government is more fair and just.
Electronic warfare is violence. Trying to use the defence of disproportionate response, is defending violence.
Like poking a superior power in the eye, repeatedly.
You recall incorrectly.
Nope.
Nope.
They didn't. Israel didn't kill 1000 civilians during Operation Cast Lead.
Israel doesn't control the rights of Gaza, Hamas does.
Wow, you get all that in Israel, but you don't in Gaza, because of Hamas, lol.
Syria and Gaza.
Syria. After I edited your nonsense out.
Which btw, is only further proof our observations are indeed correct.
Gaza and Syria, because of their gov'ts.
Yep. The people should rise up and overthrow the gov'ts of Syria and Gaza. That would be Assad and Hamas.
Yep.
LOL, like that matters.
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Very interesting concerted effort by Dancing Loony and cubbytabfetgoeobsessed.
Really?? You got it too??
LOL
I wonder if they both get into their black uniforms with death's heads and lightning bolt insignia when they carry out these operations??
Kinda like Trekkies, only weirder.
And the present regime is fair and just. Right- They are not israel. Drinking the bathwater again?
Great powers support governments or act to overthrow them not on issues of democracy or human rights but because of self interest. There are no white knights in the Middle East or among their supporters.
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True. But since 1948 there are few countries and peoples that many have tried and still try to completely obliterate that countries inhabitants due to their religious beliefs
I learned a long time ago not to take sides in disputes between control freak neighbours. Truth will come from neither one so there can be no wrong or right.
Both for some- For others it is just killing Jews. Germany learned from 2 wars that they lost territory.
Does that add perspective- OK- What does the Israeli Govt. do when rockets are flying from Hamas or Hezbollah. I could not find that particular perspective in the link.
Here's a little more reality based perspective for ya.
I didn't realize so many Israeli's were killed. You'd think the Arabs would stop spoiling for war with
all those losses - but wait....they love death more than we love life, so I've heard. Other than that,
I'd swear this piece was written by George Orwell for one of his books.
No, it's driven by one main religious and ethnic force - Arab Muslims. You've heard it before, but I'll
say it again - if the Arabs lay down their arms, there will be peace, if the Jews lay down their arms,
there will be a slaughter of Jews.
It may be bitter, but it's easy to understand - Jews bad, kill the Jews. Simple.
lol what? Huh? The Jews were forcibly removed from Gaza by their own government, but the Arabs there
were displaced by Israeli's? Lie.
*some more gruesome scenes from concentration camp Gaza linked at end of this post.
True, as long as the Jews knew their place and lived subserviant as Dhimmi's.
Actually, "Palestine" is ancient Greek for "Israel", so the Arabs actually called it Israel too.
True, the Zionists were plotting to re-establish themselves in their holy land by, horror of horrors,
buying land!! Considering that the influx of Zionists actually worked to increase the population of Arab
Muslims by creating jobs and opportunities, we can consider their fears of becoming a minority allayed.
True, but the Jews accepted it anyway, in the interests of peace.
lol yeah that ensuing war that just came out of nowhere. I hate when that happens!
True, for the Jews, it's the home of the two temples, for the Muslims, it's a place where there's Jews
who aren't Dhimmi's.
Yeah, very arguably, against! The root of the conflict is the existance of non-Dhimmi Jews in what the
Muslims consider Dar al Islam. Period. Once a land is conquered by Islam, it belongs to Islam. Forever.
That's the simple root of the conflict.
Someone actually wrote that with a straight face? Seriously? Can there be a worse indictment of
Palestinian Arab depravity than that?
Believed by who? Uninformed deluded pundits and useful idiots?
lol well yeah, when the Arab goal is the annihilation of the Jewish state, it make border negotiations
kind of tricky.
I took the statistics presented in this article at face value. The rest of the article isn't even fit to
be taken as a joke.
* Horrific scenes from concentration camp Gaza, where the refugees do their best to put their misery
aside just for a little while to celebrate Ramadan.
Warning: Graphic
Ramadan Scenes From “Concentration Camp” Gaza | Israellycool
A good link.
Total since 1987
Palestinians: 7978 (1620 children or 20.3%)
Israelis: 1503 (142 children or 9.4%)
If I understand Colpy's reasoning those numbers indicate Palestinians take more care to avoid killing children than the Israelis...
#juan's link is also clear that this area was relatively peaceful until it was over run by Jewish refugees in the 1930's and 40's. Maybe if more Jews fled to the safety of Canada or the United States, this area would still be peaceful.
For the record I'm not criticizing the Jewish refugees for fleeing to the relative safety of Palestine. They had little choice. I'm critical of Canada, the United States. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and most of South America. We should have sent flotillas of boats to Europe in the 1930's and post war to pick up Jewish refugees. Canada and the rest of the world could have easily absorbed millions of Jewish refugees.
Instead our governments of the day turned back boatloads of Jewish refugees. Many of these people ended up in extermination camps. After the war, our leaders felt guilty for their role in the Holocaust. Canada and the other countries which failed to act with compassion, tried to compensate Holocaust survivors by imposing the European Jewish refugee burden on the Palestinians. Essentially trying to make up for one atrocity by creating another. That's how we got into this mess.
One possible solution to the Palestinian refugee problem would be to create a homeland for them wherever Colpy lives. I'm sure Colpy and his neighbors wouldn't mind several million Muslims moving in next door. I've never heard him state once that millions of Jewish refugees moving to Palestine had anything to do with the current violence in the region. So if it wasn't a cause of animosity for the Palestinians, I'm sure it would be a cause for animosity for Colpy and his neighbors. Once the Palestinian refugees make up about 40% of the population, Colpy and his neighbors could look forward to the UN partitioning their land so the Palestinian refugees gain control over most of land, including best farmland and all the water resources. I'm sure Colpy wouldn't mind the UN declaring his neighbor a Muslim Fundamentalist State under Sharia Law. I read in a book somewhere that God promised Colpy's neighborhood to Palestinians, just like another book promised Palestine to the Jews. If a book making such a claim is good enough for the Jews, it certainly has to be good enough for the Palestinians. I'm sure Colpy and his neighbors wouldn't mind giving up their homes and their fundamental rights and freedoms to accommodate millions of nationless refugess like the Palestinians did in 1947/48. Unfortunately Colpy and his neighbors would have to move into tents in the UN designated refugee camps, But if Colpy and his neighbors waiting peaceully long enough they would eventually get freedom and justice just like the Palestinians.
BTW, When are the Palestinians going to get Freedom and Justice? Its been 60 years now. Long before Hamas and the PLO existed... Funny how people suffering injustice and oppression tend to get violent... Must be human nature.
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Man, you really have a hard-on for Colpy now.... Isn't that something like a PERSONAL ATTACK - sort of like the shield you hide behind every time you make a fool of yourself?