Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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It's not, but you go through the proper channels. Israel offered to allow the aid through, they just reserved the right to inspect it first in Ashdod. A truly humanitarian mission would have had no problem with that. In fact, even the organizers are not calling this a humanitarian mission, they're not shy to admit it was intended to break the blockade. Only the useful idiots are calling it a humanitarian mission.

Breaking the blockade would be a clear humanitarian mission especially in this case where Israelis are clearly starving and murdering innocent civilians and destroying their homes industries and farms in an act of ethnic genocide recognized as such by the worlds good fearless citizens.
 
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Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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Between Nov of '47 and Nov of '48 almost 700 Arabs were killed or beaten and chased from their home. Part of a peace deal (as dictated solely by Israel) meant no right to return without certain concessions, the UN should have been there enforcing their UN Resolution 181, oh yeah, the US kept rejecting any/all condemnations of Israel yet they will label an elected body as being a terrorist entity.

Live up to your handle, Just the Facts.

lol huh?

If the Arabs accepted the plan they would have been handed a sovereign nation simultaneously with the Jews. They chose war instead.

How's that working out for them?

Anyway that's another thread.
 
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Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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In a 'war' both sides have weapons, in this case only one side is allowed weapons, how odd, 75 years ago that was unacceptable.

I like the merge thing.

Well aside from being entirely untrue (Israel was massively outgunned in the war of '48) if it were true it would be a pretty good reason to not start a war, doncha think?

But again, that's another thread....in fact....it's already written....many time over lol

Well aside from being entirely untrue (Israel was massively outgunned in the war of '48) if it were true it would be a pretty good reason to not start a war, doncha think?

But again, that's another thread....in fact....it's already written....many time over lol

K nevermind I misunderstood your post....IGNORE
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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lol a peace deal dictated by Israel BEFORE Israel existed. Those Jews truly ARE wiley lol
If they were they would have avoided being put into exile by God in the first place.
Israel birthed itself in May of '48. UN181 states that Palestine was to be considered a Nation no later than Oct. 30/48. When is Israel going to recognize that fact? Of right, they can't because taht would make them give up land and require a boat load of cash to the ones displaced (via war crimes) during just that first year, the refugee war crime is a daily occurrence still.
The return paper that needed to be signed was an Israeli document in that it only appeared after may of '48. That is when UN troops should have been put there at the expense of the 33 countries that voted for the creation of Israel.

Well aside from being entirely untrue (Israel was massively outgunned in the war of '48) if it were true it would be a pretty good reason to not start a war, doncha think?
Stop with the lies that have been refuted many times over.

Military assessments

Benny Morris has argued that although, by the end of 1947, the Palestinians "had a healthy and demoralising respect for the Yishuv's military power", they believed in decades or centuries "that the Jews, like the medieval crusader kingdoms, would ultimately be overcome by the Arab world".[62]
On the eve of the war the number of Arab troops likely to be committed to the war was about 23,000 (10,000 Egyptians, 4,500 Jordanians, 3,000 Iraqis, 3,000 Syrians, 2,000 ALA volunteers, 1,000 Lebanese and some Saudi Arabians), in addition to the irregular Palestinians already present. The Yishuv had 35,000 troops of the Haganah, 3,000 of Stern and Irgun and a few thousand armed settlers.[63]
On 12 May David Ben-Gurion was told by his chief military advisers, "who over-estimated the size of the Arab armies and the numbers and efficiency of the troops who would be committed", that Israel's chances of winning a war against the Arab states were only about even.[64]
[edit] Yishuv forces

In November 1947, the Haganah was an underground paramilitary force that had existed as a highly organized, national force, since the riots of 1920–21, and throughout the riots of 1929, and Great Uprising of 1936–39[65] It had a mobile force, the HISH, which had 2,000 full time fighters (men and women) and 10,000 reservists (all aged between 18 and 25) and an elite unit, the Palmach composed of 2,100 fighters and 1,000 reservists. The reservists trained 3–4 days a month and went back to civilian life the rest of the time. These mobile forces could rely on a garrison force, the HIM (Heil Mishmar, lit. Guard Corps), composed of people aged over 25. The Yishuv's total strength was around 35,000 with 15,000 to 18,000 fighters and a garrison force of roughly 20,000.[66] The two clandestine groups Irgun and Lehi had 2,000–4,000 and 500–800 members, respectively. There were also several thousand men and women who had served in the British Army in World War II who did not serve in any of the underground militias but would provide valuable military experience during the war.[67] Walid Khalidi says the Yishuv had the additional forces of the Jewish Settlement Police, numbering some 12,000, the Gadna Youth Battalions, and the armed settlers.[68] Few of the units had been trained by December 1947.[69]
In 1946 Ben-Gurion decided that the Yishuv would probably have to defend itself against both the Palestinian Arabs and neighbouring Arab states and accordingly began a "massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West". By September 1947 the Haganah had "10,489 rifles, 702 light machine-guns, 2,666 submachine guns, 186 medium machine-guns, 672 two-inch mortars and 92 three-inch (76 mm) mortars" and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities. The Yishuv also had "a relatively advanced arms producing capacity", that between October 1947 and July 1948 "produced 3 million 9 mm bullets, 150,000 Mills grenades, 16,000 submachine guns (Sten Guns) and 210 three-inch (76 mm) mortars",[70] along with a few "Davidka" homemade mortars that were highly inaccurate but had a spectacularly loud explosion that demoralized the enemy. Initially, the Haganah had no heavy machine guns, artillery, armored vehicles, anti-tank or anti-aircraft weapons,[71] nor military aircraft or tanks.[72]
Sources disagree about the amount of arms at the Yishuv's disposal at the end of the Mandate. According to Karsh before the arrival of arms shipments from Czechoslovakia as part of Operation Balak, there was roughly one weapon for every three fighters, and even the Palmach armed only two out of every three of its active members.[73] According to Collins and LaPierre, by April 1948 the Haganah had managed to accumulate only about 20,000 rifles and Sten guns for the 35,000 soldiers who existed on paper.[74] According to Walid Khalidi "the arms at the disposal of these forces were plentiful".[68]
[edit] Arab forces

There was no national military organisation in the Arab Palestinian community. There were two paramilitary youth organizations, the pro-Husayni Futuwa and the anti-Husayni Najjada ("auxiliary corps"). According to Karsh, these groups had 11,000–12,000 members,[75] but according to Morris, the Najjada, which was based in Jaffa and had 2,000–3,000 members, was destroyed in the run-up to the 1948 war, during Husayni's attempt to seize control of it, and the Futuwa never numbered more than a few hundred.[76] At the outbreak of the war, new local militia groups, the National Guard, mushroomed in towns and cities. Each was answerable to its local Arab National Committee.[77]
In December, Abd al-Qadir Husseini arrived in Jerusalem with one hundred combatants who had trained in Syria and that would form the cadre of the Holy War Army. His forces were joined by a few hundred young villagers and veterans of the British army.[78]
The equipment of the Palestinian forces was very poor. The British confiscated most of their arsenal during the 1936–39 rebellion and World War II[79] A report of 1942 by the Haganah intelligence service assessed the number of firearms at the disposal of the Palestinian at 50,000 [but] this was probably an overestimate[80] or even "highly exaggerated".[81]
The Arab Liberation Army (Jaysh al-Inqadh al-Arabi) had been set up by the Arab League. It was an army of around 6,000 volunteers, largely from Arab countries, and was led by Fawzi al-Qawuqji. Its officially allotted area was northern Palestine, including Samaria.
Jordan's Arab Legion was considered the most effective Arab force. Armed, trained and commanded by British officers, this 8,000–12,000 strong force was organised in four infantry/mechanised regiments supported by some 40 artillery pieces and 75 armoured cars. Until January 1948, it was reinforced by the 3,000-strong Transjordan Frontier Force.[80]
As many as 48 British officers served in the Jordanian Arab Legion;[82] probably the Jordanian forces were the best trained of all combatants. Other combatant forces lacked the ability to make strategic decisions and tactical maneuvers,[83] as evidenced by positioning the fourth regiment at Latrun, which was abandoned by other combatants before the arrival of the Jordanian forces. In the later stages of the war, Latrun proved to be of extreme importance, and a decisive factor for Jerusalem's fate. Glubb Pasha, the commander of the Jordanian Arab Legion, organized his forces into four brigades as follows:


1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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It's not, but you go through the proper channels. Israel offered to allow the aid through, they just reserved the right to inspect it first in Ashdod. A truly humanitarian mission would have had no problem with that. In fact, even the organizers are not calling this a humanitarian mission, they're not shy to admit it was intended to break the blockade. Only the useful idiots are calling it a humanitarian mission.

I read that ... and I trust Israeli bean counters to avoid manipulating evidence and fabricating facts about as much as the organizers did. It's a bloody ECONOMIC blockade. Therein lies the difference between Canadian naval action in the Gulf of Aden. Canada's mission was counter terrorist/pirate. Israel's is to punish Gazans.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Now lets see how long this lasts before someone starts shooting rockets into or bombing Israel.


JERUSALEM – Israel and Egypt signaled a temporary easing of the Gaza Strip blockade Tuesday following harsh international condemnation of the deadly Israeli raid on an aid flotilla en route to the sealed-off Palestinian territory.

Egypt said it was freely opening its border with
Gaza for the first time in more than a year to allow in humanitarian aid, setting off a mad rush to the crossing by thousands of residents, while an Israeli official said there is an "ongoing dialogue" with the international community on how to expand the amount of goods entering the area.

Israel, Egypt ease Gaza blockade after deadly raid - Yahoo! News
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Well, that's good news. Think Israel and Egypt can empty the warehouses empty (and into Gaza before the gates close?

Is it safe to go read some of the Gulf news?
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Rather than listen to a bunch of whiny bickering about what happened, you can just look at the footage.

BBC News - Israeli army releases 'flotilla footage'

I see israeli's with paintball guns (As stated) landing. I see them being wailed on with bars.

The defense is that they aren't being hit with metal bars but wooden rods.

If you surround someone with 10 men and wail on them with pickaxe swings with a piece of 3 foot long wooden dowling its just as lethal as a metal bar, clubs are able to kill people.

So Israel uses non-lethal force, is met with lethal force and responds with lethal force. Its clearly on the video.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
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What terrorist attacks against Israel? Israel is a rabid animal, whomever puts them down will do a great service to humanity. We have only the Israelis and their stinking supporters making those phony claims and they are all confirmed liars thieves and murderers.
Israeli Death List lost by Israeli Soldier during raid
What Terrorist Attacks against Israel? You've shown you support Terrorist attacks against the state of Israel.. ;-)
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Rather than listen to a bunch of whiny bickering about what happened, you can just look at the footage.

BBC News - Israeli army releases 'flotilla footage'

I see israeli's with paintball guns (As stated) landing. I see them being wailed on with bars.

The defense is that they aren't being hit with metal bars but wooden rods.

If you surround someone with 10 men and wail on them with pickaxe swings with a piece of 3 foot long wooden dowling its just as lethal as a metal bar, clubs are able to kill people.

So Israel uses non-lethal force, is met with lethal force and responds with lethal force. Its clearly on the video.
It's too bad we can't slowmo that video and actually see who was who in it. We have to rely on the BBC to point out who is who in the video. Like the media are always accurate. :roll:
Was the Israeli Navy working under the UN mandate that it thought it had some special say over what went on in international waters? IMO, it's the commandos own fault they were attacked.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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It's too bad we can't slowmo that video and actually see who was who in it. We have to rely on the BBC to point out who is who in the video. Like the media are always accurate. :roll:
Was the Israeli Navy working under the UN mandate that it thought it had some special say over what went on in international waters? IMO, it's the commandos own fault they were attacked.
The blockade is legal if it wasn't the other countries navy would have given the humanitarians an escort but they didn't
 

clutch

Time Out
Jan 23, 2010
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Rather than listen to a bunch of whiny bickering about what happened, you can just look at the footage.

BBC News - Israeli army releases 'flotilla footage'

I see israeli's with paintball guns (As stated) landing. I see them being wailed on with bars.

The defense is that they aren't being hit with metal bars but wooden rods.

If you surround someone with 10 men and wail on them with pickaxe swings with a piece of 3 foot long wooden dowling its just as lethal as a metal bar, clubs are able to kill people.

So Israel uses non-lethal force, is met with lethal force and responds with lethal force. Its clearly on the video.



hahahaha you're very naive to trust a garbage propaganda video that israel released.

the people on the flotilla were shot at and the camera caught them retaliating to israel's aggression. it's very much propaganda. it's a meaningless video.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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The flotilla was warned but one ship decided not to comply that made them terrorists the other five ships were the true humanitarians
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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The blockade is legal if it wasn't the other countries navy would have given the humanitarians an escort but they didn't
Nope. What I read was that international law allows for the capture of naval vessels in international waters if they were about to violate a blockade. Those aid ships were not naval vessels.

hahahaha you're very naive to trust a garbage propaganda video that israel released.

the people on the flotilla were shot at and the camera caught them retaliating to israel's aggression. it's very much propaganda. it's a meaningless video.
Yeah. According to a BBC reporter the Israeli commandos said they were shot at. The civilians said the commandos came aboard shooting already.
 

clutch

Time Out
Jan 23, 2010
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hahaahaha what the hell is that video, who the hell knows what the **** that is or how legit it is, my guess is not legit at all. looks like more propaganda to me.