Harper stands firm on human rights in china

[petros]

From my experience in China, the Chinese know Norman Bethune very well. Beyond that though, they do see Canada as secondary in importance to the US and the UK, though they do see it as an important destination for further university studies owing to the availability of English-medium universities in the country, and so still more important than most other countries on practical grounds. Beyond that, though, they do tend to view Canada as a minor player on the world stage owing to its small population.

Strange. I read the Bethune thing last night on google.

 

[TenPenny]

I wouldn't want to comment any more on the subject, since when I commented on my experiences in China I was told 'if I'd really been there, like I claimed', then I'd know I was wrong.

 

[Colpy]

From your link:

I am well aware that Falun Gong practitioners have been making these sorts of claims for years, but as far as I know, they remain unsubstantiated allegations, not proven facts.

Allege: To assert without or before proof
Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

A phone conversation claming something happened is not proof. Its an allegation. Allegations alone are enough to warrant an investigation, but not convict someone.

I find it difficult to believe that Chinese authorities would be able to murder that many people and not leave a trail of supporting evidence.

China harvests organs from people executed of capital crimes. Its likely some Falun Gong practitioners were convicted of a capital crime, executed and had their organs harvested. But no reputable source has recently claimed China has executed more than 2000 people in a year or executes people simply for their beliefs. They'd have to have been convicted of murder, conspiracy to overthrow the government or some other capital crime first.

China has arrested tens of thousands of Falun Gong practitioners, simply because of their beliefs. Practicing Falun Gong is considered a serious crime leading to long jail times and fines, but its not a capital offence. Many of these people who have ben convicted for their beliefs have also been abused and tortured in prison. That's abhorrant enough without having to invent atrocities.

I am gobsmacked.

I swear, I looked at this post a dozen times at least before I could respond........

YOU are demanding proof of allegations???????????????

Unbelievable.

China is the fourth worst human rights abuser on earth, Get that straight. And it is the major supporter of the worst human rights abusers on earth.

For you, who claims to be so concerned about the plight of the oppressed, to defend CHINA.....well, I'm gobsmacked.

 

[earth_as_one]

It must be their school system then.

Can you name a Mexican state without using google?

Mexico is the nearest culture that is different than our own.

What do you know about it?

Without Google?

Chiapas. That's because of a rebellion. I've been to Cancun and Cozumel. Quintana Roo is stamped in my passport. I think Mexico city is a state as well as the Federal capital. That's all I can name offhand.

Mexico has a peso based currency, not sure of the exchange rate. 20:1? Tequila and Kahlua are made in Mexico. At one time Vicente Fox was President. Tijuana is near San Jose, California. Lots of drug related crime along the US border. They are a major oil exporter, most goes to the US.

I'm sure I could name a few other things without Google, since I've been to Mexico twice and read the news paper. I'm sure more than a few people here could do better. I think Canadians tend to know more about other countries because we have a small population and we aren't as subjected to patriotic propaganda as countries like China (and the US).

The Chinese school system is oriented toward science, math and Chinese reading and writing. Geography and politics are covered there about the same as here, maybe less. In the overall scheme of things, Canada is not that important to the average Chinese. Probably about the same importance as Brazil to most Canadians.

 

[TenPenny]

Without Google?

Chiapas. That's because of a rebellion. I've been to Cancun and Cozumel. Quintana Roo is stamped in my passport. I think Mexico city is a state as well as the Federal capital. That's all I can name offhand.

If you really had been to Mexico as you claim, you'd be know more than that.

 

[Cliffy]

If you really had been to Mexico as you claim, you'd be know more than that.

I was in Mexico in 88 and I don't remember much except there is a museum in Mexico City that has nothing but crosses with bleeding Jesus in it. It was bizarre. 400 years of bleeding Jesus. Quite the obsession. Oh and many of the buildings were cracked from the big earth quake. Oh, and my friend had his packsack stolen out of our apartment in Porta Vearta.

 

[earth_as_one]

EAO...Did you miss this?????

CBC News - Canada - China harvesting Falun Gong organs, report alleges

I am gobsmacked.

I swear, I looked at this post a dozen times at least before I could respond........

YOU are demanding proof of allegations???????????????

Unbelievable.

China is the fourth worst human rights abuser on earth, Get that straight. And it is the major supporter of the worst human rights abusers on earth.

For you, who claims to be so concerned about the plight of the oppressed, to defend CHINA.....well, I'm gobsmacked.

What I seek is report based on evidence, not allegations. An allegation can be made without evidence and be completely wrong. Certainly allegations alone are not enough to convict someone in a Canadian court.

I searched AI and found this:

PUBLIC AI Index: ASA 17/014/2007
20 March 2007

...Tens of thousands of Falun Gong practitioners have been arbitrarily detained in China since the spiritual movement was banned as a ''threat to social and political stability'' in July 1999. Those accused of being Falun Gong leaders or organizers have been imprisoned, while others have been held in psychiatric hospitals. The vast majority, however, have been held in RTL facilities. Many detained Falun Gong practitioners have reportedly been tortured or ill-treated, particularly those who refuse to renounce their beliefs.​

​

Overseas Falun Gong organizations have recorded the deaths in custody of over 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners since the crackdown began. It has recently been alleged that many Falun Gong detainees who died in custody had been used to provide organs for transplant through "organ harvesting". Amnesty International is investigating these reports, but is not yet able to verify them....
​

​

If they found something, it would have made it into the 2008 report:
Amnesty International Report 2008 •

As a general rule, AI avoids repeating unsubstantiated allegations in their annual reports. So I tend not to believe 40,000 Falun Gong practitioners were murdered for their organs, although I have no doubts China treats Falun Gong practioners harshly.

If your point was that China has major human rights problems, then I would agree.

AI 2008 Annual Report: China
Summary

Growing numbers of human rights activists were imprisoned, put under house arrest or surveillance, or harassed. Repression of minority groups, including Tibetans, Uighurs and Mongolians, continued. Falun Gong practitioners were at particularly high risk of torture and other ill-treatment in detention. Christians were persecuted for practising their religion outside state-sanctioned channels. Despite the reinstatement of Supreme People’s Court review of death penalty cases, the death penalty remained shrouded in secrecy and continued to be used extensively. Torture of detainees and prisoners remained prevalent. Millions of people had no access to justice and were forced to seek redress through an ineffective extra-legal petition system. Women and girls continued to suffer violence and discrimination. Preparations for the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing were marked by repression of human rights activists. Censorship of the internet and other media intensified.

Amnesty International Report 2008 •

AI 2009 Annual Report: China
Summary

The Olympic Games in Beijing brought heightened repression throughout the country as authorities tightened control over human rights defenders, religious practitioners, ethnic minorities, lawyers and journalists. Following protests and unrest which began in March in Lhasa the government originally detained over 1,000 people. Hundreds remained in detention or were unaccounted for at year’s end. The authorities used a series of violent incidents alleged to be linked to terrorists to launch a sweeping crackdown on the Uighur population in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region (XUAR). Torture and other ill-treatment remained widespread. The authorities maintained tight control over the flow of information, with many internet websites blocked, and journalists and internet users harassed and imprisoned for the peaceful expression of opinions. The authorities made increased use of punitive forms of administrative detention, notably the Re-education through Labour system, to silence critics in the lead-up to the Olympic Games.

China's human rights problems are undeniable. In fact denying them, while criticizing other nations human rights record would be hypocritical.

That argument not only applies to China, but also other countries with major Human Rights problems.

AI 2008 Annual Report: Israel and the Occupied Territories
Summary

The human rights situation in the Israeli Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) remained dire. Israeli forces killed more than 370 Palestinians, destroyed more than 100 Palestinian homes and imposed ever more stringent restrictions on the movement of Palestinians. In June, the Israeli government imposed an unprecedented blockade on the Gaza Strip, virtually imprisoning its entire 1.5 million population, subjecting them to collective punishment and causing the gravest humanitarian crisis to date. Some 40 Palestinians died after being refused passage out of Gaza for urgent medical treatment not available in local hospitals. Most Gazans were left dependent on international aid for survival but UN aid agencies complained that the Israeli blockade made it difficult for them to provide the much needed assistance. In the West Bank, the Israeli authorities continued to expand illegal settlements and build a 700-km fence/wall in violation of international law. Impunity remained the norm for Israeli soldiers and Israeli settlers who committed serious abuses against Palestinians, including unlawful killings, physical assaults and attacks on property. Thousands of Palestinians were arrested, most of whom were released without charge. Those charged with security-related offences often received unfair trials before military courts. Some 9,000 Palestinian adults and children remained in Israeli jails, some of whom had been held without charge or trial for years. Attacks by Palestinian armed groups killed 13 Israelis

Amnesty International Report 2008 •

AI 2009 Annual Report: Israel and the Occupied Territories
Summary

Israeli forces launched a military offensive on an unprecedented scale – code-named “Operation Cast Lead” – on 27 December in the Gaza Strip, killing many civilians and destroying homes and other civilian property. Earlier in the year there had been a marked upsurge in killings of civilians and others by both Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) before a ceasefire was agreed in June (see Palestinian Authority entry). Some 70 children were among the 425 Palestinians killed in the first half of the year. In addition to the large-scale destruction of homes and property in the Gaza Strip, Israeli forces also destroyed scores of Palestinian homes in the West Bank and in Bedouin villages in the south of Israel. Throughout the year, the Israeli army maintained stringent restrictions on the movement of Palestinians in the OPT, including a blockade on the Gaza Strip, which caused an unprecedented level of humanitarian hardship and virtually imprisoned the entire population of 1.5 million. This was further exacerbated by the Israeli offensive launched on 27 December. Hundreds of patients with serious medical conditions requiring treatment not available in local hospitals were refused passage out of Gaza; several died. Hundreds of students could not travel to their universities abroad because they could not leave Gaza, where many fields of study are not available. Most of Gaza’s inhabitants depended on international aid, but the Israeli blockade hampered the ability of UN agencies to provide assistance and services. In the West Bank the movement of Palestinians was severely curtailed by some 600 Israeli checkpoints and barriers, and by the 700km fence/wall which the Israeli army continued to build mostly inside the West Bank. The expansion of illegal Israeli settlements on seized Palestinian land increased to a level not seen since 2001. Israeli soldiers and settlers who committed serious abuses against Palestinians, including unlawful killings, assaults and attacks against property, enjoyed impunity in most cases. Hundreds of Palestinians were arrested by Israeli forces; reports of torture and other ill-treatment were frequent, but investigations were rare. Some 8,000 Palestinians remained in Israeli prisons, many after unfair military trials.

Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories | Amnesty International Report 2009

Harper and anyone else who criticizes China's human rights record yet defends Israel is a hypocrite.

You either support human rights for everyone or you don't truly believe in them.

 

[earth_as_one]

I not asking you to scan your passport.

I said "Most Chinese barely know about Canada's existence".

You said "That's a silly statement." and "I'm basing my comment on my experiences this past summer in Shanghai, Hangzhou, Wuzhen, Nanchang, Beijing, Xi'An, and a few other places. "

If you believe that Chinese people know a lot about Canada, then I'd like an example of something which occurred during your trip which indicates Chinese people in general are knowledgeable about Canada. I'm not talking about a tour guide who makes a living off of Canadian tourists.

If you found this comment insulting:

"In the overall scheme of what's important in China, Canada isn't very high on the list. If you traveled there as you claim, you'd know that. Most Chinese are focused on China."

then I apologize.

What I meant was that your statements contradict what my son just told me after living in China for over a year.

If you really had been to Mexico as you claim, you'd be know more than that.

You have my apology. Point taken.

I surrender?

 

[earth_as_one]

I was in Mexico in 88 and I don't remember much except there is a museum in Mexico City that has nothing but crosses with bleeding Jesus in it. It was bizarre. 400 years of bleeding Jesus. Quite the obsession. Oh and many of the buildings were cracked from the big earth quake. Oh, and my friend had his packsack stolen out of our apartment in Porta Vearta.

I was Cancun/Cozumel in 1984 and Cozumel in 2009. Cozumel has changed. It used to be a sleepy fishing village. But its been overrun by people feeding off the tourist trade. Besides Mexico I've been to Cuba 2007, Dominican Republic 2004 and Costa Rica 1990.

All these trips were pleasant, but Costa Rica was the probably best experience.

Where else have you been in Latin America?

 

[Spade]

It would be nice if Harper were a proponent of rights at home!

 

[Cliffy]

I was Cancun/Cozumel in 1984 and Cozumel in 2009. Cozumel has changed. It used to be a sleepy fishing village. But its been overrun by people feeding off the tourist trade. Besides Mexico I've been to Cuba 2007, Dominican Republic 2004 and Costa Rica 1990.

All these trips were pleasant, but Costa Rica was the probably best experience.

Where else have you been in Latin America?

We spent two months in central America in 88. Wondered around Costa Rica and Guatemala as well as parts of Mexico. Loved Costa Rica but had to leave Guatemala as the "revolution" was on and I could not stand how they were treating the Mayans. Haven't left Canada since.

 

[Cliffy]

It would be nice if Harper were a proponent of rights at home!

Unfortunately, like his mentor Mulroney, Harper is too busy selling us out to the lowest bidder to be concerned with human rights at home. I didn't like the man when he first showed up on the scene. I like him less now. I think he is a thoroughly dangerous man.

 

[Colpy]

It would be nice if Harper were a proponent of rights at home!

Excuse me?

When was the last time you heard of a Canadian in Canada having his guts ripped out and then being shot in the head by the state.....because of his religious beliefs?????

:roll::roll::roll::roll:

 

[YukonJack]

"It would be nice if Harper were a proponent of rights at home!"

Hating anyone who is on the opposite end of your political spectrum is on thing, but the above quote is absurdly, ridiculously and insanely, quite another.

 

[darkbeaver]

It would be nice if Harper would just immigrate to Israel where his ilk are appreciated. He could run a piano bar/grovelling school on the dead sea while he waits for the promised blessed event.

 

[Spade]

Excuse me?

When was the last time you heard of a Canadian in Canada having his guts ripped out and then being shot in the head by the state.....because of his religious beliefs?????

:roll::roll::roll::roll:

I expect better from you; from Yukon Jack, well...

 

[AnnaG]

"Harper stands firm on human rights in china"



What about Canadian rights? It's the right of Canadian kids to be poor:

http://www.canadiancrc.com/Child_Poverty_in_Canada.aspx

Politicians are the last ones that should be pointing fingers.

 

[Colpy]

I expect better from you; from Yukon Jack, well...

Unfortunately, what I said is true.....I wish it were simply rhetoric taken to ridiculous lengths. Once again, I point out that Stephen Harper is the leader of one of the best nations on earth when it comes to human rights.....and China is one of the worst.

If Harper has no right to criticize China, then no one on earth has the right to criticize China.........

 

[earth_as_one]

Canada's HR record is pretty good, but we still have room for improvement.

What AI found regarding Canada:

2009 Annual Report

Canada

Indigenous Peoples seeking to defend their land rights continued to face serious obstacles. The report of an inquiry into the role of Canadian officials in the detention and torture of detainees abroad found that they had contributed to violations of human rights.

Indigenous Peoples’ rights

There were continuing concerns about the failure to ensure prompt and impartial resolution of disputes over land and resource rights. In August, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination expressed concern about plans to construct a gas pipeline through lands in Alberta over which the Lubicon Cree continue to assert rights. The Alberta Utilities Commission ignored these concerns when it approved the project in October.

In September, the Canadian Human Rights Commission ordered an inquiry into a complaint about disparity in funding for Indigenous child protection agencies.

The government continued to assert that the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was not applicable in Canada because Canada had voted against its adoption.

"Six people died during the year after being shocked by police with a Taser."

In Ontario there was slow progress in implementing the 2007 report from the Ipperwash Inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the 1995 police shooting of Dudley George, an unarmed Indigenous man involved in a land protest.

Ontario Provincial Police used excessive force during land rights protests in and near Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory in 2007 and 2008.

Women’s rights

In October, the UN Committee on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women called on Canada to “take the necessary steps to remedy the deficiencies in the system” with respect to murdered or missing Indigenous women. The Committee also called for restrictions on funding the advocacy activities of women’s groups to be lifted and for the establishment of an oversight mechanism for women prisoners.

Counter-terror and security

In February the government enacted reforms to the immigration security certificate system, following a 2007 Supreme Court of Canada decision, but the system remained unfair. Five men subject to certificates were released while court proceedings continued, some on very restrictive bail conditions. One man, Hassan Almrei, had been detained since October 2001.

In March, the Federal Court dismissed a challenge to the practice of transferring battlefield detainees in Afghanistan into Afghan custody where they were at serious risk of torture. This decision was upheld by the Federal Court of Appeal in December.
Lubicon Cree leader Chief Bernard Ominayak, Canada, 1 July 2008.
Lubicon Cree leader Chief Bernard Ominayak, Canada, 1 July 2008.
© Amnesty International

In October, a report was released of an inquiry into the role of Canadian officials in the cases of Abdullah Almalki, Ahmed El-Maati and Muayyed Nureddin, all Canadian citizens who were detained and tortured abroad. The report identified numerous ways in which the actions of Canadian officials contributed to violations of their rights.

The government continued to refuse to intervene with US officials regarding the case of Canadian citizen Omar Khadr, arrested in Afghanistan when he was 15 years old and held for more than six years at Guantánamo Bay.

Refugees and asylum-seekers

In June, the Federal Court of Appeal reversed, on procedural grounds, a 2007 Federal Court ruling that the Safe Third Country refugee agreement between Canada and the USA violated the Charter of Rights and international law.

Police and security forces

A provincial public inquiry was initiated into the October 2007 death of Polish national Robert Dziekanski at Vancouver International Airport after being Tasered by officers of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). The Office of the Commissioner for Public Complaints against the RCMP issued a report calling for restrictions on the use of Tasers. Six people died during the year after being shocked by police with a Taser.

Death penalty

In September, the Federal Court heard an application by Canadian Ronald Smith, who was sentenced to death in the US state of Montana in 1983. Ronald Smith challenged the new policy of the Canadian government of not seeking clemency for Canadians sentenced to death in countries which it considered to be democratic and to adhere to the rule of law. The Court had not issued a decision by the end of the year.

Canada | Amnesty International Report 2009

 

[earth_as_one]

Unfortunately, what I said is true.....I wish it were simply rhetoric taken to ridiculous lengths. Once again, I point out that Stephen Harper is the leader of one of the best nations on earth when it comes to human rights.....and China is one of the worst.

If Harper has no right to criticize China, then no one on earth has the right to criticize China.........

You either support human rights for everyone or you don't truly believe in them. Harper's record regarding supporting the human rights of Afghans, Iraqis and Palestinians is a disgrace.