Harper predicts pain at gas pumps if Layton is in power

[Tonington]

But they also pay way more than we do for a liter of gas. Which mens they get ripped off all the time instead of most of the time.

Right, of course they pay more. But it's not largely because of cap and trade, it's because they have taxes like our excise taxes which are considerably higher. A carbon price of $30 per ton of carbon adds 9 cents for every gallon of gasoline, which is considerably less than the difference between Europes prices and our own.

 

[JLM]

But they also pay way more than we do for a liter of gas. Which mens they get ripped off all the time instead of most of the time.

With density of the population in Europe, I don't think there is the necessity to drive the distances we do. :smile:

 

[CDNBear]

The only jurisdictions that have cap and trade right now are in Europe, and with their emissions trading scheme, the volatility in energy price is far more than it is for the actual emissions credits. Check out the chart on this web page, coal, oil, and gas, all have larger variance in the price of said commodities.

Thanks, but that's not what I was alluding to. I simply asked the question, "Why do you think gas prices are higher in Europe?"

Next thing you know, I have all sorts of other crap flung at me.

Right, of course they pay more. But it's not largely because of cap and trade, it's because they have taxes like our excise taxes which are considerably higher.

That's one reason. The other is VAT.

A carbon price of $30 per ton of carbon adds 9 cents for every gallon of gasoline, which is considerably less than the difference between Europes prices and our own.

Do you think Syncrude will eat the taxes the NDP dump on them, without passing them on to the customer?

 

[Tonington]

Thanks, but that's not what I was alluding to. I simply asked the question, "Why do you think gas prices are higher in Europe?"

That's not what I responded to...you were talking about speculation and carbon credits, and the price of energy. I only brought up Europe because it's an actual example of what can happen, and the results show that as the market matures, the volatility is lower for carbon credits than it is for the energy commodities. In other words, market pricing of carbon doesn't increase the volatility of energy prices due to speculation. Of course it adds cost, that's kind of the point. If it didn't, it wouldn't work.

That's one reason. The other is VAT.

It's taxes. Europe has higher taxes added to the price of fuel. The price of carbon resulting from emissions trading has far less impact on gasoline prices than the actual taxes do.

Do you think Syncrude will eat the taxes the NDP dump on them, without passing them on to the customer?

No. Of course not.

 

[mentalfloss]

It's taxes. Europe has higher taxes added to the price of fuel. The price of carbon resulting from emissions trading has far less impact on gasoline prices than the actual taxes do.

Huh.

I never knew that.

Well that's interesting.

 

[CDNBear]

Of course it adds cost, that's kind of the point. If it didn't, it wouldn't work.

My point, exactly.

The price of carbon resulting from emissions trading has far less impact on gasoline prices than the actual taxes do.

Irrelevant, it still adds to the cost. Which is my point.

No. Of course not.

So with all jacks claims about the tar sands, how much do you think the gas price at the pumps will go up?

 

[Tonington]

So with all jacks claims about the tar sands, how much do you think the gas price at the pumps will go up?

It depends on a lot of factors. Not all of our gasoline in Canada comes from the tar sands. Also, it depends on the market price. As I already said, a price of $30 per ton of carbon is about 9 cents per gallon, or about 2.4 cents per litre. The NDP said something like $45 a ton. So that's 3.6 cents a litre.

 

[CDNBear]

It depends on a lot of factors. Not all of our gasoline in Canada comes from the tar sands. Also, it depends on the market price. As I already said, a price of $30 per ton of carbon is about 9 cents per gallon, or about 2.4 cents per litre. The NDP said something like $45 a ton. So that's 3.6 cents a litre.

I'm not even going to ask if you're ok with that, lol.

 

[lone wolf]

Face it.... Everything goes up in price. No matter who's steering the ship, he's still got to answer to the wind. Only dropping demand makes costs go down. Chinese are getting cars. People want to be fed. What is the nutritional value or the octane rating of a dollar?

 

[mentalfloss]

Also, regardless of who is in power, there is no doubting that gas prices will go up.

 

[Colpy]

Also, regardless of who is in power, there is no doubting that gas prices will go up.

Yeah, that is true.....and that will be very hard on the economy.......so let's elect Jack so he can INCREASE the disasterous rise in gas prices by another 10 to 15 cents a litre.

As well as tax and overspend just to slam the economy a little harder....

70 BILLION dollars....in 4 years. In what will be a shrinking economy, thanks to taxation, gas price inflation, and antipathy to the oil sands and trade.

Brilliant!

 

[CDNBear]

Yeah, that is true.....and that will be very hard on the economy.......so let's elect Jack so he can INCREASE the disasterous rise in gas prices by another 10 to 15 cents a litre.

As well as tax and overspend just to slam the economy a little harder....

Brilliant!

Well that saves me some typing. Although I'm not so sure Jacks policies will make it rise that much.

 

[petros]

Don't think Harper has anything to do with gasoline prices outside of the tax component. :smile:

Wanna bet?

 

[lone wolf]

Yeah, that is true.....and that will be very hard on the economy.......so let's elect Jack so he can INCREASE the disasterous rise in gas prices by another 10 to 15 cents a litre.

As well as tax and overspend just to slam the economy a little harder....

70 BILLION dollars....in 4 years. In what will be a shrinking economy, thanks to taxation, gas price inflation, and antipathy to the oil sands and trade.

Brilliant!

YouTube - A Spoonful Of Sugar Sing Along

 

[mentalfloss]

Yeah, that is true.....and that will be very hard on the economy.......so let's elect Jack so he can INCREASE the disasterous rise in gas prices by another 10 to 15 cents a litre.

As well as tax and overspend just to slam the economy a little harder....

70 BILLION dollars....in 4 years. In what will be a shrinking economy, thanks to taxation, gas price inflation, and antipathy to the oil sands and trade.

Brilliant!

Well, it's invariably true that despite the fact that gas has gone up by a whopping 30 cents in the last month, you can hardly qualify it as disastrous. If anything, it will add about $100-$200 dollars to the average household per year. That's not disastrous.

Also - and you keep doing this, I have no idea why. No one who tries to be fair would only quote the expenditures and not the revenues. If you're going to be so apt to believe the expenditures, then you should also give credence to the revenues - which show a $1 Billion surplus by 2015.

If you want to look at a pure loss with no revenue, the appropriate expenditure to make an example of is the $30 Billion that will be paid for these jets. What revenue will we get from spending on those jets? None, right? So it's money straight out with nothing going back in.

Nevermind the fact that our own government (the conservative strain if I'm not mistaken) don't tell us how much these jets actually cost, yet Americans have been polite enough to let us know that the cost and maintenance of that project has been rising well above what our own government (the conservative sect) was promising us.

So, if I was looking out for my wallet, it's not an easy choice here.

Definitely not as easy as you make it out to be.

 

[ironsides]

Just saw in local paper that ruling Conservatives hold 38% of support. Now the bartering begins.

 

[lone wolf]

Not all that far from where they were....

 

[damngrumpy]

There are five major polls out there and you have to look at them all to see the trends
which I have followed all along. Nanos is always about three days behind the rest.
ECOS is usually closet to the averaging of the polls. In between is Angus Reid and so
on. Today the Tories are in the mid to high 30;s the NDP is about 3 to 3.5 points behind.
The Liberals are falling off the radar at about 22% give or take.
Conservatives will not have a majority, the NDP will be the official opposition and the Liberals
will be searching for a new identity. This is something new but not static. If you remember
the NDP fell apart about fifteen years ago and had to search for a new identity amid the surge
of the Reform Party. The problem for Reform is a similar one to New Democrats. They had
a hard core base and little room to grow. The Reform Party made a major mistake, they joined
forces with the Conservatives. I say that because the two parties look like one big one but they
are not and people know it, that is why they don't trust the, to give them a majority.
Harper is a social conservative, one of those Christian for Zion types and it is their downfall.
The reason is they are exclusionary. The New Democrats have combined a Social Democrat
mentality with a watered down third way Tony Blair mentality which makes them a little more
on the right than the old left of center position they once had. In other words they are now more
socially progressive and fiscally conservative. The Liberals want to be the steady hand or the
Grandfatherly types who have sound advice and low key. The Greens are a movement and as
such have little to offer in the mainstream spectrum. It is the only way to keep their members
together believing they are a family, but they are exclusionary and far worse than Harper would
ever be.
How does this relate to gas prices? All of these parties are painting a picture of each other and
none of the parties is telling the entire truth about their neighbours and the Conservatives are the
worst offenders. Gas prices are market driven, and if the cap and trade issue become reality
business will act accordingly and maximize profit. If war, short supply , and speculation is the
major issue, business will maximize their profit, and government will continue to make money
because they will tax it all. It matters not who comes to power You and I are going to pay.

 

[mentalfloss]

Whatever the hell happens, just please, no more goddamn wars.

 

[petros]

I have no idea why you people all feel Canada is going to remain lame assed on the global stage. Our economy is resources and in the next 5 years our exports are going to double and there will be jobs galore.

ALL parties know this. It's going to be a rough ride over the next 5 years though.