Gun Control is Completely Useless.

[Colpy]

Come up with statistics of strong gun control and an out of control homicide rate by firearms in a civilian population & you might win a point or two.

FACTS Gun Policy Facts and News

Canada (as a comparison)
Strict licensing and registration requirements all arms.
22.26 registered guns per 100 people
Murder rate: 1.8 per 100,0000



El Salvador:
gun control laws roughly the equivalent of those in Canada
2.51 registered guns per 100 people
Murder rate: 71.0 per 100,000 (the worst on earth)

Honduras
gun control laws significantly tougher than Canada (max. 5 guns, ballistic fingerprinting, etc. registration, licensing)
2.05 registered firearms per 100 people
Murder Rate: 67.0 per 100,000 (the second worst on earth)

Jamaica
gun controls significantly tougher than in Canada (ballistic fingerprinting, registration, licensing, severe legal penalties)
1.84 registered firearms per 100 people
Murder rate: 62.0 per 100,000 (number three on earth)

Guatemala
gun control stricter than in Canada (no military calibers, only 250 rds allowed in possession, registration, licensing)
4.8 registered firearms per 100 people
Murder rate: 52 per 100,000 (number four on earth)

So, the four worst murder rates on earth all exist in countries with gun control laws at least as strict as Canada's.............and with firearms ownership rates that are a fraction of those in Canada.

You beginning to learn something??? Like you don't have a leg to stand on.

You call that post ballistic?

And you wonder why I state that you just make stuff up?

I read the rest of your posts in this thread, and quite frankly, having watched you dismiss statistical norms, for you own erroneous math, dismissal of facts, ignoring facts and otherwise fantasy based beliefs...

Putting any effort into a reply to you, would be a complete waste of time. Even for the shear entertainment value.

True true, but I AM crazy....and bored.

Besides, someone capable of linear thought may be reading this stuff.

 

[DaSleeper]

My crystal ball predicts a "Ya But" coming from our resident medical secretary:lol:

 

[Colpy]

My crystal ball predicts a "Ya But" coming from our resident medical secretary:lol:

Actually, there seems to be a sudden lack of response.

Funny how decent research does that.

 

[Bar Sinister]

FACTS Gun Policy Facts and News

Canada (as a comparison)
Strict licensing and registration requirements all arms.
22.26 registered guns per 100 people
Murder rate: 1.8 per 100,0000



El Salvador:
gun control laws roughly the equivalent of those in Canada
2.51 registered guns per 100 people
Murder rate: 71.0 per 100,000 (the worst on earth)

Honduras
gun control laws significantly tougher than Canada (max. 5 guns, ballistic fingerprinting, etc. registration, licensing)
2.05 registered firearms per 100 people
Murder Rate: 67.0 per 100,000 (the second worst on earth)

Jamaica
gun controls significantly tougher than in Canada (ballistic fingerprinting, registration, licensing, severe legal penalties)
1.84 registered firearms per 100 people
Murder rate: 62.0 per 100,000 (number three on earth)

Guatemala
gun control stricter than in Canada (no military calibers, only 250 rds allowed in possession, registration, licensing)
4.8 registered firearms per 100 people
Murder rate: 52 per 100,000 (number four on earth)

So, the four worst murder rates on earth all exist in countries with gun control laws at least as strict as Canada's.............and with firearms ownership rates that are a fraction of those in Canada.

You beginning to learn something??? Like you don't have a leg to stand on.

True true, but I AM crazy....and bored.

Besides, someone capable of linear thought may be reading this stuff.

I wouldn't gloat too much. Your stats regarding the four nations mentioned are somewhat useless unless those nations have the same standards of enforcement. In fact it would be quite easy to find four different nations with strict gun control that have lower murder rates than Canada or the US.

So, do you have any information at all on whether or not Honduras, Jamaica, Guatemala, and El Salvador actually bother to enforce their gun laws? Also are you aware of the fact that many of the murders in Guatemala are not due to random gun violence, but appear to be generated by people who once served on the murder squads used by the government of Guatemala? I have provided a link to an article about some of the Guatemala violence below as well as this quote taken from the article.

...the demobilisation of thousands of former members of the security forces without any programme for their reinsertion into society and readaptation to civilian life, along with the fact that an estimated two million firearms are in the hands of the civilian population, are factors that play a significant role in the wave of brutal murders of women.

OneWorld South Asia Home - GUATEMALA: Murders of Women Recall Counterinsurgency Techniques

As you may note the article deals primarily with the murders of women, but no doubt others are being killed in that country as well, and possible for the same reasons.

El Salvador seems to be a similar mess with government gangs murdering members of organized crime and vice versa. And in Jamaica the situation seems to also be gang related.

As for Honduras, the government there continues a brutal program of repression against its own people, allowing the continued murder of those advocating land reform and any journalists brave enough to speak out against the government.

If you actually want to make comparisons it is much more useful to compare societies that are at least slightly similar. When is comes to comparing murder rates in Canada or the US it makes little sense to compare countries that by Canadian standards are socially disfunctional.

One fact that does stand out among all of the arguments and numbers concerning murders and guns is that the more guns available to the population, regardless of the social setting, the more murders there are likely to be. I am not saying that eliminating firearms from society would eliminate murders; after all, the Hutus did a pretty good job just using machetes, but what I am saying is that firearms make it all too easy to kill someone else.

 

[petros]

What is the poverty rate of those countries?

 

[Colpy]

I wouldn't gloat too much. Your stats regarding the four nations mentioned are somewhat useless unless those nations have the same standards of enforcement. In fact it would be quite easy to find four different nations with strict gun control that have lower murder rates than Canada or the US.

So, do you have any information at all on whether or not Honduras, Jamaica, Guatemala, and El Salvador actually bother to enforce their gun laws? Also are you aware of the fact that many of the murders in Guatemala are not due to random gun violence, but appear to be generated by people who once served on the murder squads used by the government of Guatemala? I have provided a link to an article about some of the Guatemala violence below as well as this quote taken from the article.

...the demobilisation of thousands of former members of the security forces without any programme for their reinsertion into society and readaptation to civilian life, along with the fact that an estimated two million firearms are in the hands of the civilian population, are factors that play a significant role in the wave of brutal murders of women.

OneWorld South Asia Home - GUATEMALA: Murders of Women Recall Counterinsurgency Techniques

As you may note the article deals primarily with the murders of women, but no doubt others are being killed in that country as well, and possible for the same reasons.

El Salvador seems to be a similar mess with government gangs murdering members of organized crime and vice versa. And in Jamaica the situation seems to also be gang related.

As for Honduras, the government there continues a brutal program of repression against its own people, allowing the continued murder of those advocating land reform and any journalists brave enough to speak out against the government.

If you actually want to make comparisons it is much more useful to compare societies that are at least slightly similar. When is comes to comparing murder rates in Canada or the US it makes little sense to compare countries that by Canadian standards are socially disfunctional.

One fact that does stand out among all of the arguments and numbers concerning murders and guns is that the more guns available to the population, regardless of the social setting, the more murders there are likely to be. I am not saying that eliminating firearms from society would eliminate murders; after all, the Hutus did a pretty good job just using machetes, but what I am saying is that firearms make it all too easy to kill someone else.

I would agree with everything in your post except the last paragraph.

The point of all the numbers is that gun availability has absolutely nothing to do with the level of murder. Pro or con.....or at least the availibility of guns can not be shown to have any effect.....and without proof of benefit, it is not right to severely limit our freedom.

There are far too many other factors involved to blame the tool. Especially when people have been killing with weapons ever since Cain smacked Abel with a rock.

 

[In Between Man]

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."- Gandi

Ouch! It must pain the left to know that their pacifist icon supported a right to bear arms!

 

[petros]

Ghandi was a religious conservative.

 

[In Between Man]

Ghandi was a religious conservative.

Yeah, of a moral relativist religion - right up the left's alley.

 

[petros]

Morals are a left thing?

 

[In Between Man]

Morals are a left thing?

Moral relativism is. "All religions lead to God", "What's right for you may not be right for me", "It's the majority that decides what is right and wrong... get with the times", and so forth.

 

[Omicron]

How do you feel about them monitoring your internet conversations as tightly as they wish they could do gun control?

 

[Cliffy]

Yeah, of a moral relativist religion - right up the left's alley.

You funny! Jesus was the first hippy. His message was about peace and brotherly love, sharing with others and not judging others. Jesus was definitely a lefty. You are sitting on the wrong side of the fence, righty boy.

 

[In Between Man]

You funny! Jesus was the first hippy. His message was about peace and brotherly love, sharing with others and not judging others. Jesus was definitely a lefty. You are sitting on the wrong side of the fence, righty boy.

Haha! Nice try! Jesus was not against judging others. You only think so because you misconstrue what he said about "don't judge, lest you be judged". Further, who do think is going to be the judge on Judgment Day? And the peace Christ talked about isn't the type of peace your thinking about, the kind of "peace" where we have to accept everyone's sinful behavior.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword (judgment). For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother." Matthew 10:34

(sorry for the hijack)

 

[Omicron]

I don't get it.

First, I shot my first antelope when I was 14. Do you know what it takes to sneak up on an antelope?

Let me ascribe..

Cheetahs evolved in America. Somehow they drifted over to Africa. They are the fastest animals. Antelopes are the second fastest animals, also having evolved in America. Hmm.

I don't understand the issue. I had three guns by the time I was a stupid teen. A Belgian-22, a 20 gauge shotgun, and a 306, which kicked..

Dad showed me how to use his ammo-loading apparatus kit.

I know how to plant a chip in every gun, like people do in cats.

I think the problem is trust of leadership.

 

[In Between Man]

I think the problem is trust of leadership.

I think the problem is gun control, like how law-abiding citizens cannot carry concealed weapons in Canada.

 

[Omicron]

How many of you think that gun ownership was forbidden under the Soviets?

I think the problem is gun control, like how law-abiding citizens cannot obtain a concealed weapons permit in Canada.

Why the *f-ck* would I want a "concealed weapons" license unless it were after me explaining to a judge how nan-chucks are most properly effective and useful if wrapped in ensolite? I invented that.

Anyway cats, if you have to use nan-chucks, just wrap them in ensolite. Ensolite is a super-thick form of polyester given initial respect by dudes having done the Korean War. That way you can knock them out without breaking their skulls.

 

[Bar Sinister]

I would agree with everything in your post except the last paragraph.

The point of all the numbers is that gun availability has absolutely nothing to do with the level of murder. Pro or con.....or at least the availibility of guns can not be shown to have any effect.....and without proof of benefit, it is not right to severely limit our freedom.

There are far too many other factors involved to blame the tool. Especially when people have been killing with weapons ever since Cain smacked Abel with a rock.

It is interesting that the number of gun deaths in the USA does not seem to bear out your assertion that the number of guns has nothing to do with an increased murder rate. In fact almost no study bears out your assertion. Instead almost all nations that have seen an increase in the number of guns available to the average citizen have seen increases in gun related deaths, and unless you can find a study that shows the opposite you are quite simply wrong.

I refer you to this study conducted by the Harvard School of Public Health.
Guns and Death - Firearms Research - Harvard Injury Control Research Center - Harvard School of Public Health

 

[DaSleeper]

Actually, there seems to be a sudden lack of response.

Funny how decent research does that.

She'll be back....She went off line wihout logging off as you posted...means her name stay on for another two hours.
Common sense tells me what I need to know, and I stopped trying to convince dingbats a long time ago...:smile:
Sometimes when I go shooting, I go just to relax and make noise...not really trying for all tens..
That's the closest analogy to a forum I could find;-)

 

[bluebyrd35]

Actually, there seems to be a sudden lack of response.

Funny how decent research does that.

Well, getting over the first cold in 10 years and pneumonia, then a back injury, I was bored. My life has returned to normal, and strangely, LOL, parties, friends and getting ready to go south for the winter have taken prevalence over correcting faulty research.

Now, re: gunpolicies.org......1. It claims not to be official. 2. Did you happen to notice that Gun Homicides in the US per 100,000 between 1993 & 2009 averaged between 340 and 298?? 3. Did you also happen to notice that Gun Homicides in Canada per 100,000 for the same period were .69 and .46??

Because even though it proves decent gun control does make a difference, I did not use this site. Please don't use drug prevalency and inner city crowding or even unemployment as an excuse for the HUGE discrepancy between both countries. No more crap either about the US protecting poor little Canadians.....for Pete's sake learn about your own country before spouting nonsense.

She'll be back....She went off line wihout logging off as you posted...means her name stay on for another two hours.
Common sense tells me what I need to know, and I stopped trying to convince dingbats a long time ago...:smile:
Sometimes when I go shooting, I go just to relax and make noise...not really trying for all tens..
That's the closest analogy to a forum I could find;-)

...........
Hmmm.......I'm a dingbat??? too bad I'm a very smart one eh??? By the way,while I am a very qualified medical secretary, I have been an accountant in a large brewing company, an hotel manager, a cook in a recreational camp, a stenographer to the president of NE just out of school and before I was sixteen, I even worked in a general store. Now I am retired I own & manage a 200 acre farm when I am not travelling. So, one could say, I am a kind of successful dingbat. LOL.

Also I never log-off from my pcs or out of forums, except when I intend to be away for any length of time. Oh, and you really do need to look at little closer at what you assume is your common sense, there is really quite an interesting world out there, that would widen your outlook considerably.

Now, life is calling and I have things to do and friends to meet.