Gun Control is Completely Useless.

bobnoorduyn

bobnoorduyn

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bobnoorduyn said:
I recieved another e-mail that was rather enlightening, and provides a bit more ammunition, so to speak, against the registry. Seems Ekos Research is conducting a poll of firearms owners using contact information garnered from the CFC's database, hmmm. Much of the information asked for is already in this database. It is apparently an attempt by bureacrats to justify the registry, particularly with the second reading of Bill C-391 due this month. The federal government knew nothing about this poll and has launched an investigation. The Canadian Shooting Sports Accociation is advising all firearms owners to not participate in this poll, and is exploring the possibility of persuing criminal charges relating to the release of confidential information byt the CFC.

There is no justification in a free country for having to let other people know what law abiding citizens have in their own homes. Privacy is a major cornerstone of liberty.
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I wrote this a week ago, guess I wasn't talking though my hat, eh?
 
Colpy

Colpy

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AN UPDATE

When I did the original post on this thread, I went as far as 2004, and predicted that the gap would widen....well, I took another look........from 2005 to 2008. WOW!

I went looking to isolate two populations, as close as possible in population make-up, culture, etc, with the ONLY difference being gun control laws. I settled on the west, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in Canada, and the three American states that border them, Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. These seemed to be the best examples, as they are the two areas of Canada and the United States that are the most alike in population culture, etc., yet most different in gun legislation.

Let me lay it out for you.

In Canada, before you buy a long gun, you must pass a safety course, undergo an investigation, get references including your spouse, obtain a license, and register the firearm. Most military semi-autos are prohibited. Semi-auto rifles can only have magazines with 5 rounds

In these states, if you want the semi-auto version of the American military M-16, you walk into the gun store, put down your cash, buy the piece and as many 30 round magazines as you like. You wait a federally-mandated 7 days, and go get your rifle. No license, no registration, no course, any rifle is OK.

In Canada, the vast majority of handguns are prohibited. If you want a handgun, you must either be a collector, or a target shooter. Self-defense is NOT allowed. You must have a long gun license (see above), pass ANOTHER course, and register your pistol. You must belong to a gun club, and you are ONLY allowed to transfer the weapon back and forth from the club to home, it must be trigger locked, and in a locked case.

If you want a handgun in any of these states, it is exactly the same as the process for buying a military "assault" rifle in the Sates, as laid out above. No license, no registration, no course, no NOTHING. NO handguns are prohibited.

In Canada, getting a license to carry a handgun is practically impossible.

In these states, the gov't MUST give you a license to carry a handgun for self-defense if you don't have a criminal record.

Just to make it clear, here are the ratings for the states given by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: Montana (F), North Dakota (D), Minnesota ( C-)

Believe me, Canada would get an A+++ from Sarah Brady.

So, Canada is a wonderful, peaceful place where everyone is safe and happy, but step across the border and you trip over bodies and fall into the mess of blood, guts and expended shell casings, right?

Well, maybe not.
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Stats;

Murder rates per 100,000

2005
USA: Minnesota - 2.2 Montana - 1.9 North Dakota - 1.1
CDN: Manitoba - 4.1 Alberta - 3.2 Saskatchewan - 4.3

2006
USA: Minnesota - 2.4 Montana - 1.8 North Dakota - 1.3
CDN: Manitoba - 3.2 Alberta - 2.7 Saskatchewan - 4.2

2007
USA: Minnesota - 2.2 Montana - 1.5 North Dakota - 1.9
CDN: Manitoba - 5.1 Alberta - 2.5 Saskatchewan - 3.0


2008
USA: Minnesota - 2.1 Montana - 2.4 North Dakota - 0.5
CDN: Manitoba - 4.4 Alberta - 3.0 Saskatchewan - 2.9

Notice the highest rate in the US states is lower than the lowest rate in Canada. Amazing!!!!

Stats obtained from Murder Rates 1996 - 2008 | Death Penalty Information Center for the USA, and Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory in Canada, Canadian rates rounded down to match US decimal use.
 
Colpy

Colpy

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Avro said:
Were these people killed with guns or by other means?

What about national levels?
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The overall murder rate in the USA is about 5.8 per 100,000...........boosted by murder in the inner cities.....in some cities the rate is well over 50 per 100,000. Paradoxically, these same cities are often the ones with syrong gun control laws (like Washington, DC)

The murder rate in Canada is about 2.0 per 100,000.

About 70% of US murders are done with guns. In Canada about 30%. However, that is a totally irrelevant statistic. If the level of murder in a culture loaded with guns is one half that of the same culture without nearly as many guns.....well, think it out....do guns actually prevent murder????

All these stats are off the top of my head, from memory.....so.... :)
 
Colpy

Colpy

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AnnaG said:
2008 stats The Daily, Wednesday, February 20, 2008. Study: Firearms and violent crime

Crime in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stats from 2000: Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.
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hmmmm

IMHO, some of these stats are irrelevant.

The whole issue of homicide with guns is a red herring used by the anti-gun folks to con us.

Yes, if I decide to violently assault and kill someone, and I have a readily available smorgasborg of weapons, say a pistol, sword, knife, long bow, rock, baseball bat, sharp stick, cast iron frying pan, car, piece of pipe, garrotte, bottle of gasoline and a match etc etc.......chances are I'll choose the pistol, thus inflating the homicides committed with guns.......much to the pleasure of Wendy Cukier et al.

But the entire point is the killing, not the weapon. If I don't choose the pistol, I will kill with any of the other weapons listed, and that is the point....it is the homicide, not the weapon.

The idea that the presence of firearms causes murder is a fallacy, as shown in the stats I provided on the other thread........and as demonstrated by your own stats.....the USA comes in as the number 8 country in the world for firearms homicides, but it is number 48 in the world for homicide overall.........
 
Risus

Risus

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Colpy said:
hmmmm

The idea that the presence of firearms causes murder is a fallacy, as shown in the stats I provided on the other thread........and as demonstrated by your own stats.....the USA comes in as the number 8 country in the world for firearms homicides, but it is number 48 in the world for homicide overall.........
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I think you have it ass backwards The US has a higher ranking for homicides with firearms than overall. Therefore the higher presense of firearms in the States leads to the higher ranking.
 
Colpy

Colpy

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Risus said:
I think you have it ass backwards The US has a higher ranking for homicides with firearms than overall. Therefore the higher presense of firearms in the States leads to the higher ranking.
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I don't understand.

Yes, there are lots of murders commited with guns. So what?

If not guns, other weapons would have been used.

Comparatively, the US has a moderate murder rate.......despite all the guns. In fact, those areas of the USA where the ownership and carrying of guns is absolutely the norm (Montana??? etc), have an extremely LOW murder rate.......So guns don't cause murder.

So why restrict them????
 
JLM

JLM

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Colpy said:
I don't understand.

Yes, there are lots of murders commited with guns. So what?

If not guns, other weapons would have been used.

Comparatively, the US has a moderate murder rate.......despite all the guns. In fact, those areas of the USA where the ownership and carrying of guns is absolutely the norm (Montana??? etc), have an extremely LOW murder rate.......So guns don't cause murder.

So why restrict them????
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I think if you are going to cite statistics on gun murders, only the ones should be counted where someone was not pulling the trigger.
 
A

AnnaG

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JLM said:
I think if you are going to cite statistics on gun murders, only the ones should be counted where someone was not pulling the trigger.
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huh? Who would commit murder with a firearm if they couldn't pull the trigger? There are better bludgeons around than firearms butts.
 
JLM

JLM

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Liberalman said:
If you charge gunmakers with murder when their guns kill people then we would not have a problem
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Great idea and car manufacturers, axe manufacturers, knife manufacturers, chemical and rat poison manufacturers, bic lighter manufacturers..........................:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
countryboy

countryboy

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Nov 30, 2009
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Liberalman said:
If you charge gunmakers with murder when their guns kill people then we would not have a problem
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Are you serious? Naw, I don't think so. I read your recommendation twice to make sure I got it right. Charge a gunmaker with murder? What is your rationale behind that statement?

Are you saying that the person who chose that weapon and pulled the trigger doesn't have any responsibility for his/her actions?
 
Risus

Risus

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May 24, 2006
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JLM said:
Great idea and car manufacturers, axe manufacturers, knife manufacturers, chemical and rat poison manufacturers, bic lighter manufacturers..........................:lol::lol::lol::lol:
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But guns have only one purpose and that is to kill...
 
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