Gun Control is Completely Useless.

[Danbones]

OOOOOHHHHH, another gun nut who actually thinks more guns equals a safer society. Why is it that the USA is not the safest democracy on the planet?

because of people like you who don't read cited stats and can't do facts

and

"safest"

?...

Overprotective parenting has become a lifestyle for many families, as parents hover over their children in fear that they might get hurt. But kids also need to experience the world firsthand in order to learn and grow.

But researchers are discovering that kids need more than supervised exercise: they need freedom. They need to organize their own activities and not just follow adult direction. They need to solve their own problems, negotiate the social world of other kids, and regulate their own actions without adult interference.

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-give-your-kids-freedom-in-a-dangerous-world-1638140713

People like you who acquire legislative power are far more dangerous than guns are.

 

[Curious Cdn]

scouts canada does it all the time

Scouts can't carry a knife without their Knife Licence (and it's easily revoked), light a fire without their fire license, light a stove without their stove license, light a naphtha/kerosene/propane lamp without a lamp license. They have to prove their proficiency and it is all highly controlled ... just like firearms ownership should be.

 

[Danbones]

Yes criminals should not have illegal guns

Get back to us when you figure out how you can regulate that

...other than the way they did in Kennesaw where they made every household/land owner get a gun:
THAT REGULATED THE CRIMINALS!!!!

..and when I was a scout there was none of that regulated crap, just proper instruction and supervision while learning, and the wonderful feeling of being able to take
RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE'S SELF!!

 

[DaSleeper]

Scouts can't carry a knife without their Knife Licence (and it's easily revoked), light a fire without their fire license, light a stove without their stove license, light a naphtha/kerosene/propane lamp without a lamp license. They have to prove their proficiency and it is all highly controlled ... just like firearms ownership should be.

Nanny state taking over...
Read: https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf

 

[Curious Cdn]

Nanny state taking over...
Read: https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/Agenda21.pdf

Organizational discipline ... Scouts aren't anarchists who do what they want when they want to and neither are most of the rest of us.

 

[DaSleeper]

You don't need to be an anarchist, not to go for group think.

 

[Danbones]

Organizational discipline ... Scouts aren't anarchists who do what they want when they want to and neither are most of the rest of us.

an ara...what?

 

[Bar Sinister]

because of people like you who don't read cited stats and can't do facts

Unlike you to whom facts don't matter at all. BTW still haven't answered my question. Don't worry no one else has been able to either.

 

[JamesBondo]

Scouts can't carry a knife without their Knife Licence (and it's easily revoked),

It is easily revoked. And it is easily granted. The leader manages it all at their discretion. Ie there is no standardized training from national.

[/QUOTE] light a fire without their fire license, light a stove without their stove license, light a naphtha/kerosene/propane lamp without a lamp license. [/QUOTE]

Ive never heard of that. Scouts carry a "canadian path map" it has places for knife, fire, and axe. Lamp would be part of fire.

They have to prove their proficiency and it is all highly controlled ... just like firearms ownership should be.

I disagree. Scouts is a learn by doing educational system for both scout and leader. The system works with almost no procedures and policies when the parents give a damn.

This is how i learned firearms,too. I had a dad that gave a shit and he took me hunting.

 

[Danbones]

Unlike you to whom facts don't matter at all. BTW still haven't answered my question. Don't worry no one else has been able to either.

The why is the united states not...blablabla question?

Because of gun free zones like Chicago where the murder rate is over the top famous.

Mao's Great Leap Forward killed 45 million in four years
Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude.

At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million.

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' | The Independent

1958 to 1962 ...^
When did the government take their guns?
1949

"Firearm ownership law in the People's Republic of China heavily regulates the ownership of firearms. Generally, private citizens are not allowed to possess firearms.

"The Family Magazine" stated in 1837 that
The possession of firearms is altogether forbidden by the jealous government, as may be seen from the following extract from a Peking gazette..."

During the New Policies Reform era of the late Qing, the government allowed the ordinary civilians to own firearms (matchlock or modern foreign gun) for self-defense. This policy lasted until the foundation of the People's Republic of China in 1949.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_ownership_law_in_China

Perhaps you would prefer to live in that SAFE leftist paradise.
Though You might be safe there - they always take the intellectuals first.

Unlike you to whom facts don't matter at all. BTW still haven't answered my question. Don't worry no one else has been able to either.

Right....you wouldn't know if I posted facts or not, you don't read the citations, as you have proved several times while insulting the poster (not necessarily me) because you are
SCARED OF THE FACTS.
You get more embarrassed by doing that then you would if you had the courage to admit to yourself you were wrong when you are.

So, 45 million dead in a disarmed CHINA is what you want in the US???
Maybe you ought to look up the word SAFE

Kennessa proves YOU WRONG DOOOD!!!

 

[Bar Sinister]

The why is the united states not...blablabla question?

Because of gun free zones like Chicago where the murder rate is over the top famous.

Mao's Great Leap Forward killed 45 million in four years
Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude.

At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million.

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' | The Independent

1958 to 1962 ...^
When did the government take their guns?
1949

"Firearm ownership law in the People's Republic of China heavily regulates the ownership of firearms. Generally, private citizens are not allowed to possess firearms.

"The Family Magazine" stated in 1837 that
The possession of firearms is altogether forbidden by the jealous government, as may be seen from the following extract from a Peking gazette..."

During the New Policies Reform era of the late Qing, the government allowed the ordinary civilians to own firearms (matchlock or modern foreign gun) for self-defense. This policy lasted until the foundation of the People's Republic of China in 1949.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_ownership_law_in_China

Perhaps you would prefer to live in that SAFE leftist paradise.
Though You might be safe there - they always take the intellectuals first.



Right....you wouldn't know if I posted facts or not, you don't read the citations, as you have proved several times while insulting the poster (not necessarily me) because you are
SCARED OF THE FACTS.
You get more embarrassed by doing that then you would if you had the courage to admit to yourself you were wrong when you are.

So, 45 million dead in a disarmed CHINA is what you want in the US???
Maybe you ought to look up the word SAFE

Kennessa proves YOU WRONG DOOOD!!!

Despite all your bafflegab you still haven't answered my question. The gun death rate is high in almost every part of the US, not just Chicago. In fact I don't know why Chicago is used as an example since other American cities have a higher murder rate. And try actually reading what I post. My original statement did stipulate democratic nations, so your attempt at deflection with China is irrelevant as usual.

 

[gerryh]

Despite all your bafflegab you still haven't answered my question. The gun death rate is high in almost every part of the US, not just Chicago. In fact I don't know why Chicago is used as an example since other American cities have a higher murder rate. And try actually reading what I post. My original statement did stipulate democratic nations, so your attempt at deflection with China is irrelevant as usual.

I would not say that China was a deflection, but rather an example of what can happen when the general populace is not allowed the option of protecting themselves.

 

[Bar Sinister]

I would not say that China was a deflection, but rather an example of what can happen when the general populace is not allowed the option of protecting themselves.

Sorry. It was complete deflection. The discussion is not concerned with brutal dictatorships but with the fact that the nation that prides itself as being the world leader in practically every way (the USA) has a horrifically high gun death rate. You might as well use the Huns as an example of what happens when people cannot defend themselves it is equally irrelevant.

 

[gerryh]

Sorry. It was complete deflection. The discussion is not concerned with brutal dictatorships but with the fact that the nation that prides itself as being the world leader in practically every way (the USA) has a horrifically high gun death rate. You might as well use the Huns as an example of what happens when people cannot defend themselves it is equally irrelevant.

Here is the original OP, I think Colpy laid it out quite nicely

Okay folks, I went crazy.

I got thinking about the insistence of the anti-gun folks that we don't want to be like the AMERICANS, with no gun control, and blood running in the streets! I had read that murder was so high in American ghettoes that it skewed national figures, as (obviously) there could be social causes for murder in those circumstances.........SOOOOOO

I went looking to isolate two populations, as close as possible in population make-up, culture, etc, with the ONLY difference being gun control laws. I settled on the west, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in Canada, and the three American states that border them, Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. These seemed to be the best examples, as they are the two areas of Canada and the United States that are the most alike in population culture, etc., yet most different in gun legislation.

Let me lay it out for you.

In Canada, before you buy a long gun, you must pass a safety course, undergo an investigation, get references including your spouse, obtain a license, and register the firearm. Most military semi-autos are prohibited. Semi-auto rifles can only have magazines with 5 rounds

In these states, if you want the semi-auto version of the American military M-16, you walk into the gun store, put down your cash, buy the piece and as many 30 round magazines as you like. You wait a federally-mandated 7 days, and go get your rifle. No license, no registration, no course, any rifle is OK.

In Canada, the vast majority of handguns are prohibited. If you want a handgun, you must either be a collector, or a target shooter. Self-defense is NOT allowed. You must have a long gun license (see above), pass ANOTHER course, and register your pistol. You must belong to a gun club, and you are ONLY allowed to transfer the weapon back and forth from the club to home, it must be trigger locked, and in a locked case.

If you want a handgun in any of these states, it is exactly the same as the process for buying a military "assault" rifle in the Sates, as laid out above. No license, no registration, no course, no NOTHING. NO handguns are prohibited.

In Canada, getting a license to carry a handgun is practically impossible.

In these states, the gov't MUST give you a license to carry a handgun for self-defense if you don't have a criminal record.

Just to make it clear, here are the ratings for the states given by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: Montana (F), North Dakota (D), Minnesota ( C-)

Believe me, Canada would get an A+++ from Sarah Brady.

So, Canada is a wonderful, peaceful place where everyone is safe and happy, but step across the border and you trip over bodies and fall into the mess of blood, guts and expended shell casings, right?

Well, maybe not.

MURDER RATES
------------------------2000...2001...2002...2003...2004
Manitoba------------ 2.61...2.95...3.12...3.70... 4.27 (per 100,000)
(2002 - 1,151,000)-----30.....34......36.....43..... 49 (murders)

Saskatchewan------2.58...2.70... 2.71...4.12...3.92
(2002 - 1,000,000).... 26.... 27..... 27.....41.....39

Alberta---------------1.96...2.29... 2.25...2.03...2.69
(2002 - 3,056,000).... 60.....70......69.....62 .... 82

Montana.............1.80...3.80....1.80...3.30...3.20
(2003 - 917,000).......17.....35......17......30.....29

North Dakota.......0.60...1.10... 0.80....1.90...1.40
(2003 - 633,000)........4.......7.......5......12.......9

Minnesota..........3.10... 2.40... 2.20... 2.50...2.20
(2003 - 5,059,000)..157.....121.....111....126....111

HERE'S THE SHOCKER!


MURDER RATES PER 100,000
----------------------------------2000...2001...2002...2003...2004
Canada West-----------------2.22----2.52----2.54---2.80----3.26 (per 100,000)
Population 5,207,000........116.... 131.....132....146....170 (murders)

USA Northwest---------------2.69----2.47----2.01---2.54----2.25
Population 6,609,000........178.... 163......133....168.....149

GUN CONTROL IS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!
BTW Figuring this out took me HOURS.............Canadian stats are from Stats Canada, American Stats on population are from http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0004986.html

American Stats on murder rates are from http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169

Facts on state gun laws are from Home | ASK - Asking Saves Kids

Math concerned is by ME.

Edited to say: DAMN, I had those all set out in coherent tables, but all spacing disappeared when I submitted it........so (being computer illiterate) I've used spacers......sorry about that)

 

[Danbones]

Despite all your bafflegab you still haven't answered my question. The gun death rate is high in almost every part of the US, not just Chicago. In fact I don't know why Chicago is used as an example since other American cities have a higher murder rate. And try actually reading what I post. My original statement did stipulate democratic nations, so your attempt at deflection with China is irrelevant as usual.

YOU didn't get it.
(the bit about the other cities that aren't gun free the you included in that ridiculous statement?)
hahahahahahhahahahahah

get a brain doood!!!

NOTE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN PEOPLE GIVE UP THEIR GUNS!!!!
45 MILLION PEOPLE DEAD IN FOUR YEARS!!!

haha...So pointing out the facts is deflection?
NOW THAT'S A DEFLECTION!!!!

PS
"The challenge of rooting out Communists from labor unions and the Democratic Party..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_(1945–64)

Gun control is a DEMOCRATIC and communist agenda.
(So many communist states contain the word "democratic" in their names.)

" Freedom could have come a generation ago, but was repeatedly crushed by the Red army: in East Germany in 1953, Hungary in 1956, and Czechoslovakia in 1968. One reason that the Soviet army succeeded in those bloody episodes of subjugation was that the people of East Germany, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia lacked the arms with which to fight a guerilla war. Had the Poles and Czechs and Hungarians been as well armed as the Afghans, Eastern Europe might not have had to wait till 1989 for permission from the Kremlin to be free.

Indeed, the best testimony to the power of an armed populace is the vigor with which the Warsaw Pact dictatorships enforced gun control. When the Communists took over Bulgaria on September 9, 1944, they immediately confiscated every weapon in private possession.

In East Germany, private gun ownership was outlawed, although citizens were allowed to rent hunting guns for one-day periods.

Immediately after World War II, Hungary was governed by a coalition of democrats and Communists. Preparing the way for a total Communist takeover Laszlo Rajk, the Communist Minister of the Interior, ordered the dissolution of all pistol and hunting clubs, as well as of other organizations which might prove a threat to government power. Rajk claimed he acted "in order to more efficiently protect the democratic system of the state."

Poland, on the other hand, did allow limited ownership of registered target guns with a license from the so-called "Citizen's Militia." In December 1981, Poland's dictator, General Jaruzelski, decided that Solidarnosc had gone too far. He declared martial law, arrested all the pro-democracy leaders he could find, and ordered all firearms and ammunition be turned over to the government.

Nowhere was gun control fiercer than in Rumania. The dictatorship of Nicolai Ceausescu used registration lists to confiscate all firearms in private hands. The government also registered (but did not confiscate) typewriters."
http://www.davekopel.org/2A/Mags/crcommst.htm

 

[JamesBondo]

Despite all your bafflegab you still haven't answered my question. The gun death rate is high in almost every part of the US, not just Chicago. In fact I don't know why Chicago is used as an example since other American cities have a higher murder rate. And try actually reading what I post. My original statement did stipulate democratic nations, so your attempt at deflection with China is irrelevant as usual.

Not every part of the US has a high gun death rate. Just re-read the original post to this thread if you have forgotten.

 

[JLM]

Sorry. It was complete deflection. The discussion is not concerned with brutal dictatorships but with the fact that the nation that prides itself as being the world leader in practically every way (the USA) has a horrifically high gun death rate. You might as well use the Huns as an example of what happens when people cannot defend themselves it is equally irrelevant.

If you read Colpy's enlightening post on U.S. gun statistics compared to Canadian gun statistics, I think you will find the U.S. statistics are nowhere near as daunting as many think!

 

[JamesBondo]

When it comes to dictatorships and deeply rooted underworld, why would we want to give them a pass when it comes to gun death stats? I was taught not to sanitize a data set before testing a thesis.

 

[Danbones]

IF YOU READ and READ being key pieces of advice which will be ignored.

 

[bluebyrd35]

JLM .....This is a repost from several years ago...... for the clueless one I quoted above you.....

Depends on whether you speak of Canada or the US. Canada's laws are fine regarding firearms in my opinion. Not so in the US. If they want such high incidence of deaths due to firearms, fine. I simply take extra care not to antagonize when I vacation there.

As to those occasional exceptions as to how the laws are occasionally applied, or how some get hurt using household items, try thinking of them how I feel about even thinking about using ladders, butter knives, and swimming pools as weapons.

Any day now, someone here will suggest getting rid of stairs because so many people fall on them. May those people using such useless example, loose two teeth as punishment for reducing life saving laws to the ludicrous, each time they do!!