Boy, 8, accused of killing more pets

[Cliffy]

I knew lots of boys, including myself, that did sadistic things to animals, wild and domestic. Boys can be unbelievably cruel. I studied psychology to try to figure out why we did some of the shyte we did. Several reasons came up: raging hormones, frustration with stupid rules both at school and home, lack of proper parenting and affection, and boys tend to be pack animals and follow the leader. But an 8 year old acting alone is truly aberrant behaviour. Deffinite need for some serious psych-therapy.

Oh, some of use grow up to be fairly balanced adults (but that is open to interpretation).

 

[VanIsle]

*Sigh*
For some reason, what I have actually typed here, doesn't show up.
Looks like this goon already got all the teaching he could get when they sent the RCMP, Child Services, Youth Services and Family Services all after him the first time around...... and it clearly failed because he ended up killing more animals.
No. He could not have all the teaching he could get. He probably didn't have more than a couple of visits to a shrink, if he even got that.

So tell me your wonderful, less shocking solution to curing this kid of his sadistic tendencies that these organizations didn't already do.
They obviously believed his parents who are probably lying to make themselves look good. He should have been removed from the home by Social Services. He needs to live in a loving, secure setting far away from "home".

If that was the case then I'd be chopping up people right now and storing them in my freezer..... I would have been attacking and killing animals for my own sick pleasure when I was growing up..... I would have been a bully in school, picking fights with everybody I came across, yet I never did any of these things, in fact I tolerated a lot of crap other kids did to me and I was the complete opposite of what you're claiming above.
I don't want to come across as being too personal. Do I assume you were beaten or abused by your parents or just by other kids? Kids should know their whole life that if no where else is safe - home is. If no one else loves them or likes them, Mom and Dad do. Everyone needs a safe haven. We went away last weekend. For reasons I cannot fully understand, my 43 year old son brought his 3 children with him and spent a night here in our house. We don't mind that he did that but we did ask why because he has a home of his own. He just said "I don't know". With all the trouble he's been going through over the past year, I assume he just felt like this was his safe haven for a night. I truly believe the little 8 year old does not have a safe haven in his life.
And so you think I'm also in support of beating kids around for stupid things like not coming their hair right, brushing their teeth, spilling their food, etc?
No. I am pointing out the actions of a sociopath and beating kids for those little things is right up their alley. You all know I have a grandchild in a wheelchair. After he has spent time with his Mother, all I hear for everything he does is "I'm sorry". Nothing that he is apologizing for needs to be apologized for.

I'm talking about a kid who kills, not some kid who can't figure out how to comb his hair..... two completely different things.

I do not agree with the actions being taken in your above story, and your above story is completely different then the original report.

Who's to say this kid isn't already getting all the love, snuggles and rainbows he needs/wants? There's no evidence in the report stating he does or doesn't and there are plenty of kids like this wanker who do get plenty of attention, sometimes a little too much imo, and still end up like freaks like this kid..... all the while their parents sob on the camera saying they don't understand what went wrong, their child was such an angel and wouldn't hurt a fly.
Oh yeah! While they sob on camera trying to make it look like they are all sweetness and innocence. Parents lie. They lie for each other. God forbid someone should find out that a wife isn't the person everyone believes her to be or that Dad is a child molester.


Killing one animal is one thing..... continuing to kill more animals after already being caught and having everything the system can throw at you to teach you what you're doing is wrong is a whole other ball game.



Chances are you're right..... though none of us will ever know for sure because he'll be covered up by the system until he's 18 and then have all his past records wiped, so we'll never truly know if it's the same kid or not, or if there's a correlation.

That's the other problem..... they should be giving these kid's names out to the public.... no matter what their age is.... 8, 13, 16 years old... it doesn't matter..... maybe if they figure out that they won't be protected and covered up by the system and that their neighbors, classmates and friends all will know what they did or will do.... maybe they won't do it in the first place.

My father used to say that if any of us ever broke the law, he'd call the police himself (he was friends with a number of RCMP, so it wasn't far fetched) and get them to haul us away to jail and get the stiffest penalties possible.
My Mom did the same to my brothers and it had the desired effect. You cannot blame the RCMP in this case. The best they can do is to report to child services. After that it is out of their hands until the kid commits another crime.

Of course in reality this was kind of impossible to occur, but none of us knew about or protections with the Youth Justice system at the time and really thought we'd go to jail..... which is what I count as a good reason why I didn't screw around.

Parental abuse is about the worst IMO. I was lucky. I was not abused. I know of children whose hands were laid on hot stoves for making their Moms un-happy. I know of beatings with a razor strop, and of a butcher knife being thrown at a child, and that same child getting a beating over the head with a cast iron frying pan. I know also of a child being hit across the back so hard with a spade that there was a large cut on the back from it. I know of children being passed from pillar to post, never seeing their beating Mother until the day she would show up to take them back to whatever place she called home. Those are just a few incidences. Both of these people are sociopaths. Zero feelings about anyone or anything. But - they are great at pretending to care.

[

 

[karrie]

Heuristic way is the most effective way of teaching/learning.

Let a kid touch a hotplate once, he'll never do it again.

Let a kid feel exactly how the animal, that he tortured feel and he probably won't do it again.

That is not cruelty, that is common sense.

So, you have links that prove that most animal abusers came from 'no hitting' homes? most serial killers were coddled?

 

[VanIsle]

Sorry but for some reason, it won't keep my post.

 

[AnnaG]

Heuristic way is the most effective way of teaching/learning.

Let a kid touch a hotplate once, he'll never do it again.

Let a kid feel exactly how the animal, that he tortured feel and he probably won't do it again.

That is not cruelty, that is common sense.

:roll: Common sense used to tell people the world was flat, too.

 

[VanIsle]

*Sigh*

Looks like this goon already got all the teaching he could get when they sent the RCMP, Child Services, Youth Services and Family Services all after him the first time around...... and it clearly failed because he ended up killing more animals.
No. He could not have all the teaching he could get. He probably didn't have more than a couple of visits to a shrink, if he even got that.

So tell me your wonderful, less shocking solution to curing this kid of his sadistic tendencies that these organizations didn't already do.
They obviously believed his parents who are probably lying to make themselves look good. He should have been removed from the home by Social Services. He needs to live in a loving, secure setting far away from "home".

If that was the case then I'd be chopping up people right now and storing them in my freezer..... I would have been attacking and killing animals for my own sick pleasure when I was growing up..... I would have been a bully in school, picking fights with everybody I came across, yet I never did any of these things, in fact I tolerated a lot of crap other kids did to me and I was the complete opposite of what you're claiming above.
I don't want to come across as being too personal. Do I assume you were beaten or abused by your parents or just by other kids? Kids should know their whole life that if no where else is safe - home is. If no one else loves them or likes them, Mom and Dad do. Everyone needs a safe haven. We went away last weekend. For reasons I cannot fully understand, my 43 year old son brought his 3 children with him and spent a night here in our house. We don't mind that he did that but we did ask why because he has a home of his own. He just said "I don't know". With all the trouble he's been going through over the past year, I assume he just felt like this was his safe haven for a night. I truly believe the little 8 year old does not have a safe haven in his life.
And so you think I'm also in support of beating kids around for stupid things like not coming their hair right, brushing their teeth, spilling their food, etc?
No. I am pointing out the actions of a sociopath and beating kids for those little things is right up their alley. You all know I have a grandchild in a wheelchair. After he has spent time with his Mother, all I hear for everything he does is "I'm sorry". Nothing that he is apologizing for needs to be apologized for.

I'm talking about a kid who kills, not some kid who can't figure out how to comb his hair..... two completely different things.

I do not agree with the actions being taken in your above story, and your above story is completely different then the original report.

Who's to say this kid isn't already getting all the love, snuggles and rainbows he needs/wants? There's no evidence in the report stating he does or doesn't and there are plenty of kids like this wanker who do get plenty of attention, sometimes a little too much imo, and still end up like freaks like this kid..... all the while their parents sob on the camera saying they don't understand what went wrong, their child was such an angel and wouldn't hurt a fly.
Oh yeah! While they sob on camera trying to make it look like they are all sweetness and innocence. Parents lie. They lie for each other. God forbid someone should find out that a wife isn't the person everyone believes her to be or that Dad is a child molester.


Killing one animal is one thing..... continuing to kill more animals after already being caught and having everything the system can throw at you to teach you what you're doing is wrong is a whole other ball game.



Chances are you're right..... though none of us will ever know for sure because he'll be covered up by the system until he's 18 and then have all his past records wiped, so we'll never truly know if it's the same kid or not, or if there's a correlation.

That's the other problem..... they should be giving these kid's names out to the public.... no matter what their age is.... 8, 13, 16 years old... it doesn't matter..... maybe if they figure out that they won't be protected and covered up by the system and that their neighbors, classmates and friends all will know what they did or will do.... maybe they won't do it in the first place.

My father used to say that if any of us ever broke the law, he'd call the police himself (he was friends with a number of RCMP, so it wasn't far fetched) and get them to haul us away to jail and get the stiffest penalties possible.
My Mom did the same to my brothers and it had the desired effect. You cannot blame the RCMP in this case. The best they can do is to report to child services. After that it is out of their hands until the kid commits another crime.

Of course in reality this was kind of impossible to occur, but none of us knew about or protections with the Youth Justice system at the time and really thought we'd go to jail..... which is what I count as a good reason why I didn't screw around.

Parental abuse is about the worst IMO. I was lucky. I was not abused. I know of children whose hands were laid on hot stoves for making their Moms un-happy. I know of beatings with a razor strop, and of a butcher knife being thrown at a child, and that same child getting a beating over the head with a cast iron frying pan. I know also of a child being hit across the back so hard with a spade that there was a large cut on the back from it. I know of children being passed from pillar to post, never seeing their beating Mother until the day she would show up to take them back to whatever place she called home. Those are just a few incidences. Both of these people are sociopaths. Zero feelings about anyone or anything. But - they are great at pretending to care.

 

[karrie]

For those interested in the assertion that beating a child will make them empathize with what an animal feels, and thus they won't do it, this is from Wiki,

"It has also been found that animal cruelty in children is frequently committed by children who have witnessed or been victims of abuse themselves. In two separate studies cited by the Humane Society of the United States roughly one-third of families suffering from domestic abuse indicated that at least one child had hurt or killed a pet."

 

[Ron in Regina]

ENOUGH with the Personal Attacks! Stick to the Topic. Thank You All in
advance for your cooperation from this point forward in this Thread.

 

[Ron in Regina]

enough with the personal attacks! stick to the topic. thank you all in
advance for your cooperation from this point forward in this thread.

enough.

 

[Goober]

For those interested in the assertion that beating a child will make them empathize with what an animal feels, and thus they won't do it, this is from Wiki,

"It has also been found that animal cruelty in children is frequently committed by children who have witnessed or been victims of abuse themselves. In two separate studies cited by the Humane Society of the United States roughly one-third of families suffering from domestic abuse indicated that at least one child had hurt or killed a pet."

This kid needs professional help - as to the parenting we know nothing about this at all - We do not know if they are good parents or not - i know a few people whose kids turned out to be nothing but trouble and nothing wrong with the parents.

We do not know if Mental Illness is in the family genetics as these can arise in different generations.

We know very little.

Things we do know are - 2 incidents of massive cruelty to animals
2 incidents where we all know that every Family Service in the Country in relation to children - basically sucks when it comes down to it.

We do know that Professionals that treat the Mentally Ill and in particular specializing in children are in short supply in every Prov in the country.

We do know that this child will be tarred with this his entire life if he stays in NFLD and the Maritimes. Small Place

We do know he needs help and beating him, slapping him does not work.

Dats it, in da nutshell eh - No pun intended,

This child needs help.

 

[karrie]

hey Goober.... I'm not attempting to blame the parents here. This kid could have every privilige and the most model parents for all I know. I was merely addressing the notion that being beaten teaches empathy, as it clearly doesn't and has been shown to be a contributing factor to abusing others. So many animal abusers were themselves abused, it obviously does not work the way some contend 'common sense' says it should.

 

[talloola]

this is very disturbing indeed.

this whole family needs to come to attention 'fast' and address this problem along with a counsellor,
or someone who can approach this in a positive way, but firm

I would immediately put him in a situation where he must care for animals (under supervision), be
taught about animals, and at the same time talk to him about his own life, and maybe he will open
up and begin to vent a little.
He should have to work and care for animals on a steady basis, (under supervision), until he shows
some sincere connection for them, or if the opposite continues, and he is violent in front of others,
he obviously has a serious emotional problem, and further counselling should be taken.

Hitting the child will do nothing but further the problem in the wrong direction, and do nothing to
help him improve his behavior.

 

[Goober]

hey Goober.... I'm not attempting to blame the parents here. This kid could have every privilige and the most model parents for all I know. I was merely addressing the notion that being beaten teaches empathy, as it clearly doesn't and has been shown to be a contributing factor to abusing others. So many animal abusers were themselves abused, it obviously does not work the way some contend 'common sense' says it should.

Karrie - I never thought that and know enough from your posts that you are not the type to assign blame without evidence - But some may - My points were we knew little other than these 2 incidents and yes they are horrific - we know nothing about the parents so I mentioned that so people did not get into a slam bam on parents - - he needs help in a bad way.

And beating him is throwing fuel on the fire - We do not know if mental illness is in the family - We know very little.

 

[VanIsle]

Karrie - I never thought that and know enough from your posts that you are not the type to assign blame without evidence - But some may - My points were we knew little other than these 2 incidents and yes they are horrific - we know nothing about the parents so I mentioned that so people did not get into a slam bam on parents - - he needs help in a bad way.

And beating him is throwing fuel on the fire - We do not know if mental illness is in the family - We know very little.

Obviously there are good parents out there with bad kids. That said, the parents have had to have known all along that something is wrong, if this child has a mental disorder. At 8 yrs. old, he's not old enough to know how to hide that from his parents or from his friends. I think we will see a lot more about this case in the next few weeks.

 

[Kreskin]

It is very sad. No 8 year old should have the opportunity to do this. Where have the parents been?

 

[Praxius]

:roll: So embedding the abusive attitude into the kid by beating him will do what?

It's not embedding anything..... if I go and take a hockey stick and club some kid with it because I saw it on TV and then my father came along and gave me a whack on the ass with the same hockey stick with a fraction of the power I applied to the kid I attacked, I'll get a very good, first hand understanding on what sensation occurs from what I did to that kid...... it hurts..... and if I was hit with the same level of power I hit the other kid, I'd know it'd hurt even more..... the question in my mind would then be "Do I feel it is right to inflict that same level of pain on someone else who didn't deserve it?" followed by "Would I want that level of pain inflicted on me?"

The answer in both cases would be no..... and if I don't want others to inflict that level of pain on me in the future, then don't do it to others..... the same understanding can be applied to animals as believe it or not, they do have very similar levels of pain reception as us humans.

If the child has no understanding of what certain pain can be like, then they won't fully understand why what they did was wrong.

I never said to take a hammer to his head like he did to the animals he killed..... I'm talking about giving him a good smack on the ass, let him cry it out and ask him if he liked how that felt..... if he sobs no, then you ask him how he thinks those animals or those he attacked must feel like, which would be far more worse.

It's about understanding, understanding about what he has inflicted on others, as well as understanding that there are consequences for such actions because not being able to play his video game for a couple of days.

Why not just kill the kid right off and be done with it?

The thought crossed my mind, but then the kid wouldn't really learn anything would he?

He's already displayed an abnormal amount of aberrant behavior, let's make it worse by showing him it is ok to beat living things. :tard:

Obviously you're not getting it...... If I just walked up to the kid without any provocation and started slugging the crap out of him for my own amusement or over stupid and trivial things they did wrong, then yes.... it could be viewed as how you described..... but if it is used in a controlled and confined aspect of punishment and teaching of consequence to something as tragic as what he has done, as well as education as to why it was being done, why it hurts and to compare what was done to him to what he did to others..... it is possible to teach him that going around and making things suffer for your own amusement isn't cool and isn't right.

When you blindly use physical abuse just because your angry or because a kid did something you didn't like, ie: use it almost every single day for trivial things that can be addressed by simple talking and communication, then you would teach that kid that abuse and physical punishment is the norm....... but when restricted to extreme and dangerous situations to both the child and those around them and done in a moderate, controlled manner, it can be beneficial as a learning tool.

As an example, if my child was playing around with a gun and almost shot one of his or her friends, I'd probably give that kid a good smack on the ass for what they did and a very stern lecture on the dangers of guns and what that can do to someone...... if my kid was told repeatedly to stay away from a fenced off electrical transformer area but was continually found to be climbing the fence and risking their own death, I'd probably grab my kid off the fence and smack them on the ass pretty hard and tell them they'd get a lot worse from the power if they got past the fence..... in situations like that when I was growing up, if I still couldn't understand that I'd get seriously injured or die from doing something stupid, I'd at least learn that if I tried that again, I'd get a good smack on the ass which I didn't like...... so I wouldn't do it.

It's quite likely that being beaten is why he lashes out on small animals to begin with.

I never killed or harmed small animals, so explain that one to me why don't you.... in fact I have a great respect for life, human and animal alike and I'm one of the first to help someone or something that's injured...... your above claim is an empty and subjective assumption based on nothing.

Maybe he is abused and beaten day in and day out..... maybe not.... at this stage you and I don't know.... but being regularly beaten and abused for the sake of it, day in and day out, is not what I am promoting, nor am I even suggesting it..... so how about you drop your black and white mentality and try and actually read what I am saying for once..... otherwise there is no point in debating with you if you're going to continually ignore what I am actually debating.

Right. You didn't specify as to what "beating" consisted of.

A good smack on the ass or perhaps a fraction of a tap from one of the tools he used against those animals he killed so he can understand a mere fraction of what he was inflicting on others..... nothing to seriously injure or bruise, just something to give him an understanding that what he does to others really hurts and he'd have a physical experience to understand directly how it hurts.

Granted, if he is regularly unjustly abused at home as you assume he is, and is the reason why he is the way he is.... then yes, physical punishment will not help anything and yes, he should be taken away from his parents...... but in my view, if his parents have continually pampered this kid to extreme and excused every wrong he has ever done that he never received any understanding of consequence, thus doesn't get what he is doing to others is wrong and doesn't understand what all these various social workers were telling him last time..... then perhaps a couple of smacks on the ass will put things more in focus.

Here's another example:

My father told us a story of back when he was a kid in the 50's. He had a bb gun which was a replica of a Daisy Peacemaker.... he once shot my uncle while he was riding his bike and he wiped out and landed pretty hard...... he got a lecture and the gun was taken away. Later it was given back and he was told not to do that again.... shortly after he shot my aunt right between the eyes (which she still has a scar) through the screen door at point blank range...... once again the gun was taken away for a while and he got a lecture.

A few months past and eventually he got the bb gun back..... while out in the back yard, my grandfather was bending down to set up some targets for him to shoot at..... my father seeing a good opportunity, decided to shoot my grandfather in the ass while he was bending down....... my grandfather chased him around the house for a couple of laps before he caught him, then took the gun and shot him in the ass.

He didn't shoot anybody with the bb gun after that.

It's odd that two previous attempts to lecture him and take away his toy didn't work, yet when he was given the same punishment as he inflicted on someone else, he suddenly stopped.

Please explain the logic behind that.

Now of course I imagine some would say they should have never given the bb gun back to him in the first place..... but keep in mind that this was the 1950's where just about every kid had one.

A whole lot better idea than your first one.

Perhaps, and if a situation occurs that requires it, I'd probably send my kid to one as a last resort.

So you are saying you were the same as this kid is? Then you're hardly one that people should go to for answers.

:roll: for fs..... I didn't say I'm the same as this kid.... I already said I never had any interest or past experiences with killing or abusing animals or other people.... my comments were in regards towards your claims that physical punishment from a parent is the cause for this kid being the nut job he is..... I was saying that at times I received physical punishment for stupid things I did..... yet I didn't turn out like this kid, thus your generalization does not apply.

I have no idea where you saw me saying I am like this kid and I go around clubbing and killing animals for sheer pleasure.

Studies. Anyone with half a wit could figure out there's something abnormal in this kid's behavior. Upbringing is simply the most common reason.

Your "Studies" do not automatically apply to this particular situation.... your just assuming something you do not know.... just because it's the most common, doesn't automatically mean that's actually the reason in this particular situation..... and while even I believe upbringing could be a factor.... what type of upbringing is what is unknown.... ie: lack of any discipline or way too much unjustified discipline.

You could argue it's to do with him being constantly beaten at home and I could equally argue that it's due to zero discipline at home..... which has been shown to also be a cause for this same type of behavior in past cases..... in fact I knew a few kids growing up who had no discipline given to them, we're allowed to walk all over their parents, and thus, walked all over other kids and anything that crossed their path.

Plenty of kids like him? How many is plenty? Do you have reports?

They're all over the place if you'd bother to look for it:

Not Disciplining Children Leads to Terrible Consequences
The Worst Child Abuse: Lack of Discipline - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

A Lack Of Discipline Leads To A Lack Of Healthy Conflict
A Lack Of Discipline Leads To A Lack Of Healthy Conflict | UniqueParenting.com

Pushover parents to blame for generation of children who 'lack discipline and moral boundaries', says teachers' leader
'Pushover parents to blame for generation of children who lack discipline and moral boundaries' | Mail Online

What Will The Lack Of Discipline Do To Our Children?
What Will The Lack Of Discipline Do To Our Children?

Yup. So normal punishment won't work on abnormal behavior. That should be obvious.

Obviously, which is why I am suggesting the type of punishment most these days are appalled by..... yet are the same people, such as yourself, who still don't offer up any logical alternative solution.

I already asked you and others what you'd suggest to do to solve this problem, yet I still haven't heard one single idea from you or others. All I have heard so far are harsh criticisms towards me suggesting a possible solution...... at least I'm offering out ideas.... all you're doing is complaining that this won't work, or that won't work, or this will just cause things to be worse, or that will teach the kid to do this, etc. etc.

Well then how about you offer up some sort of idea that's better to cope with this situation if you know best?

Yup. That'll be the panacea to curing everyone alright.
Oh, wait threat of jailtime doesn't work now, even on adults.

Like I said, rather then continually bickering and moaning at other people's ideas and complaining that they won't work, how about you conjure up something better.

 

[lone wolf]

Do you have kids?

 

[#juan]

I will blame the parents until I know more. Something terrible is going on/has gone on in this boy's life. The
parents have known that something was dreadfully wrong over a month ago at least, when he beat the dog to death. An
eight year old should not be so familiar with the concept of death and how to bring it about. Where did he learn this?
From TV?

 

[Praxius]

Praxius, you don't know this kid, and you can't predict what he will be like based on one abhorrent behaviour he shares with someone you knew.

And neither do you, thus you suggesting that all he needs are hugs and rainbows isn't anymore valid then my position.

 

[Nuggler]

I wonder how long it will take for him to take a hammer to one of his classmates. Serial killers usually start out with pets
and at some point move on to people.

.................:thumbup:..........Thar ya go, Juan. Been proved they start out this way. Cruelty, starting fires, peeping tom, sex crimes. Quite a future he has, unless there's some intervention done. He's 8??..........could be too late.

The authorities should be interviewing the parents as well. No one just "becomes" a sadistic dipshyte for no reason.

Dr. Nug says so. Well, me an Siggy Froid.:evil3: