9-11-ten yrs Later

[talloola]

The two fighters were still way out when it hit the ground. The civilian Lear that witnessed the mushroom cloud had clear sight of the sky, and reported no other aircraft. Did a fly by within seconds of the crash and reported it was down.

I thought it was at first too. I don't anymore.

After watching all of the shows re: 911, both at the time of the event, and all day yesterday, it is
very clear to me that it happened just as it was reported.

there were enough phone messages back and forth, and first hand interviews with relatives who talked
to their loved ones on those calls to make it legit.

And, if it had happened differently, and they did shoot it down, (which they came close to doing), that
would not have been a bad thing. That plane could have gone down in a densley populated area, killing even more.
Because of what happened with the first 3 planes, they knew that the plane was not going to land
anywhere safely, and more murder was in the making, except for the interception by the passengers.

If one of the passengers had taken control of the plane, and knew how to fly it,and was going to bring it in to land somewhere,
that would have been transmitted by radio phone, and the air traffic controllers would have helped them.

George Bush said in his interview,re: his personal account of that day, that he had given the order
to shoot down any aircraft not responding to the order for 'all' planes in the air to land.

I heard lots of interviews with relatives yesterday, who had talked directly to their loved ones on the
planes, and those interviews are real, and thier explanation of what was said was true, they have absolutely
no reason to lie.

Also, the plane conversation back and forth with the air attendent on flight 11, as she explained everything
that was going on, even gave seat numbers of the terrorists, and stayed on the phone right up to impact with
the first tower.

The two ticket sellers who sold tickets to terrorists, recognized them when pictures were shown to them.
The one fellow could never return to work, he was so affected by what 'he had been part of', he was given
permanent disability, and retired, and even yesterday, when being interviewed, he cried, as he is still
feeling partly responsible.

Both of those ticket sellers felt the same when they looked at the 'men' at the time they bought their
tickets, (that they looked like terrorists), but they didn't want to be seen as racially profiling, so
they kept their feelings to themselves, as nothing happened at the time to create 'not' allowing them
to board the planes.

The most amazing part for me to grasp is: How could those men sit at the controls of those planes, and
deliberately fly themselves into buildings. They were so controlled by their religion, they were crazy,
completely crazy.

 

[Kreskin]

Good show on CBC tonight, linking the economic collapse to 911. Often overlooked in this housing mess was that 911 scared people out of the stock market, into the housing market.

I was working with high net worth clients at the time and I distinctly remember the tide turning to people moving more assets into real estate. Two common factors influenced their decisions.. 1) Real estate could be better leveraged for producing more wealth, and 2) No matter what happens to our world "I will always have my piece of dirt where I can grow food". Combine that in the US with easy mortgage loans? In hindsight it was a recipe for disaster.

 

[EagleSmack]

". Combine that in the US with easy mortgage loans? In hindsight it was a recipe for disaster.

I'd say that this was the key.... and it was a recipe for disaster.

 

[talloola]

I'd say that this was the key.... and it was a recipe for disaster.

yes, I agree too.

people are criticized so much for being very careless by getting themselves way into a big mortgage,
without enough downpayment, or enough annual wealth period, BUT I blame the financial institutions 'more',
as they are the ones who 'know', but don't say enough, and 'want' the business much 'more' than being
protective and careful about the client, by explaining thoroughly and even urging them away from houses
they shouldn't be buying, because of price.

I hope that is changing now.

 

[EagleSmack]

yes, I agree too.

people are criticized so much for being very careless by getting themselves way into a big mortgage,
without enough downpayment, or enough annual wealth period, BUT I blame the financial institutions 'more',
as they are the ones who 'know', but don't say enough, and 'want' the business much 'more' than being
protective and careful about the client, by explaining thoroughly and even urging them away from houses
they shouldn't be buying, because of price.

I hope that is changing now.

I was here at Ground Zero (if you will) of the housing disaster and I saw people younger and making a hell of a lot less money than I getting these huge houses and spending further. The mortgage companies SOMEHOW got the green light to give out these loans. The sticker prices of these homes to me were shocking. I knew these guys were going to be living for the mortgage and if they wanted to keep these houses in bad times they needed to save, save, save when times were good. During the Clinton years times were great but they did not plan ahead. When the bubble burst they had very little savings.

You know the rest.

 

[PoliticalNick]

They were tracking it, two jets were in route, they had eyes on it, by other pilots.

The two fighters were still way out when it hit the ground. The civilian Lear that witnessed the mushroom cloud had clear sight of the sky, and reported no other aircraft. Did a fly by within seconds of the crash and reported it was down.

Just for sh*ts and giggles...

I don't have the exact #s but something like 65 times in the 2 years before 9/11 fighters were scrambled with an average response time to the location of about 12-15 minutes. On that particular day 8 supersonic fighters could not catch any of 3 planes within 45 minutes or more????????????


PS: Did you miss me Bear ;-)

 

[SLM]

people are criticized so much for being very careless by getting themselves way into a big mortgage,
without enough downpayment, or enough annual wealth period, BUT I blame the financial institutions 'more',
as they are the ones who 'know', but don't say enough, and 'want' the business much 'more' than being
protective and careful about the client, by explaining thoroughly and even urging them away from houses
they shouldn't be buying, because of price.

Remember when the advice given by professionals was actually professional?

Individuals do need to take some responsibility for their actions, there is a reason why the old adage of "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is" is actually an old adage. Still with the way these "professionals" were behaving, and they did know better, it's fairly easy to get swept up in the "new normal" even thought that, ultimately, was a delusion.

I was here at Ground Zero (if you will) of the housing disaster and I saw people younger and making a hell of a lot less money than I getting these huge houses and spending further. The mortgage companies SOMEHOW got the green light to give out these loans. The sticker prices of these homes to me were shocking. I knew these guys were going to be living for the mortgage and if they wanted to keep these houses in bad times they needed to save, save, save when times were good. During the Clinton years times were great but they did not plan ahead. When the bubble burst they had very little savings.

It was all a huge shell game. We've got people who should have known better matched up with people who did know better. Recipe for disaster.

 

[JLM]

Remember when the advice given by professionals was actually professional?

Individuals do need to take some responsibility for their actions, there is a reason why the old adage of "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is" is actually an old adage. Still with the way these "professionals" were behaving, and they did know better, it's fairly easy to get swept up in the "new normal" even thought that, ultimately, was a delusion.



It was all a huge shell game. We've got people who should have known better matched up with people who did know better. Recipe for disaster.

I'm not sure it applies here but when people get commissions/bonuses for sales that is probably a recipe for disaster.

 

[SLM]

I'm not sure it applies here but when people get commissions/bonuses for sales that is probably a recipe for disaster.

Not necessarily. If the proper guidelines are in place, clearly defined parameters and standards, then commissions and bonuses can be the incentive that they are intended to be.

 

[TenPenny]

I'm not sure it applies here but when people get commissions/bonuses for sales that is probably a recipe for disaster.

People will do what it takes to maximize their bonuses, that's the way it works (at least for the types of personality that get these jobs).

And that's why many large corporations are in the shape they are in - the executive works to maximize their bonuses.

 

[talloola]

I'm not sure it applies here but when people get commissions/bonuses for sales that is probably a recipe for disaster.

good point, but I would hope banks are not operating this way.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The Terrorist Next Door

American Muslims Face Growing Prejudice

The Terrorist Next Door: American Muslims Face Growing Prejudice - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International


This is not new. It started from the moment the Gov't identified the terrorists of 9-11 as Muslims. Seems that Germany had its Jews and America has its Muslims. Other places have had their select culture to ostrasize.

With all those guns floating around in the US......and hatred of Muslims being promoted/ perpetuated by the media. ... one has a prescrption for continuing disaster and more "need" for a modified "police state" ......to keep order.

The "Indians" aka Native Americans did not fair all that well when the whitey moved into their territory. and did some culture cleasing .

Another grim result from how badly the whole thing was handled; Between "terrorism" and branding Muslims as terrorists ......the US should happily be at war for an indefinate period of time. NO nation, NO peoples on the planet would be excluded.......as the suspicion of terrorism can be used and abused ........without even providing proof. The New america does not do proof.

 

[Colpy]

The Terrorist Next Door

American Muslims Face Growing Prejudice

The Terrorist Next Door: American Muslims Face Growing Prejudice - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International


This is not new. It started from the moment the Gov't identified the terrorists of 9-11 as Muslims. Seems that Germany had its Jews and America has its Muslims. Other places have had their select culture to ostrasize.

With all those guns floating around in the US......and hatred of Muslims being promoted/ perpetuated by the media. ... one has a prescrption for continuing disaster and more "need" for a modified "police state" ......to keep order.

The "Indians" aka Native Americans did not fair all that well when the whitey moved into their territory. and did some culture cleasing .

Another grim result from how badly the whole thing was handled; Between "terrorism" and branding Muslims as terrorists ......the US should happily be at war for an indefinate period of time. NO nation, NO peoples on the planet would be excluded.......as the suspicion of terrorism can be used and abused ........without even providing proof. The New america does not do proof.

Six million Jews died because of the German campaign of genocide.

NO Muslims have died because of any American genocide, because there is none.

NO Muslim Americans have died in hate crimes.

In fact, in the USA, a Jew is three times more likely to be the victim of a hate crime than is a Muslim.

You have graduated from stupid and ludicrous to repulsive.

 

[CDNBear]

I don't have the exact #s but something like 65 times in the 2 years before 9/11 fighters were scrambled with an average response time to the location of about 12-15 minutes. On that particular day 8 supersonic fighters could not catch any of 3 planes within 45 minutes or more????????????

Yep. And at no time during those training engagements, did real life events interrupt scripted training.

PS: Did you miss me Bear ;-)

Like an entertaining tooth ache.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

There are conspiracy theories............and then there are "conspiracy theories"..

***********

Both sides of the issue have conspiracy theories.

9/11 was a conspiracy whether a person believes that it was an inside job or that a handful of Arabs outwitted the entire intelligence apparatus of the Western world and the operational response of NORAD and the US Air Force.

For one side to call the other conspiracy theorists is the pot calling the kettle black.

The question turns not on name-calling but on evidence.

The 9/11 Truth movement was not created by bloggers ranting on their web sites. It was created by professional architects and engineers some of whom are known for having designed steel high rise buildings.

It was created by distinguished scientists, such as University of Copenhagen nano-Chemist Niels Harrit who has 60 scientific papers to his credit and physicist Steven Jones.

It was created by US Air Force pilots and commercial airline pilots who are expert at flying airplanes.

It was created by firefighters who were in the twin towers and who personally heard and experienced numerous explosions including explosions in the sub-basements. It was created by members of 9/11 families who desire to know how such an improbable event as 9/11 could possibly occur.

The professionals and the scientists are speaking from the basis of years of experience and expert knowledge. Moreover, the scientists are speaking from the basis of careful research into the evidence that exists.

When an international research team of scientists spends 18 months studying the components in the dust from the towers and the fused pieces of concrete and steel, they know what they are doing. When they announce that they have definite evidence of incendiaries and explosives, you can bet your life that that have the evidence.

When a physicist proves that Building 7 (the stories not obscured by other buildings) fell at free fall speed and NIST has to acknowledge that he is correct, you can bet your life that the physicist is correct.

When fire department captains and clean-up teams report molten steel--and their testimony is backed up with photographs--in the debris of the ruins weeks and months after the buildings’ destruction, you can bet your life the molten steel was there.

When the same authorities report pumping fire suppressants and huge quantities of water with no effect on the molten steel, you can bet your life that the temperature long after the buildings’ destruction remained extremely high, far higher than any building fire can reach.



When the architects, engineers, and scientists speak, they offer no theory of who is responsible for 9/11. They state that the known evidence supports neither the NIST reports nor the 9/11 Commission Report. They say that the explanation that the government has provided is demonstrably wrong and that an investigation is required if we are to discover the truth about the event.

It is not a conspiracy theory to examine the evidence and to state that the evidence does not support the explanation that has been given.

That is the position of the 9/11 Truth movement. and a very valid position indeed

************

source: The "Critics" of 9/11 Truth. Do They Have a Case?


It sort of boils down to: who do YOU believe?? A group of highly trained /skilled assorted professionals or a lying politician. ??



You decide.

 

[DaSleeper]

 

[TenPenny]

It sort of boils down to: who do YOU believe?? A group of highly trained /skilled assorted professionals or a lying politician. ??



You decide.

You make it sound like all engineers and architects disagree with the 'lying politicians'.

 

[EagleSmack]

You make it sound like all engineers and architects disagree with the 'lying politicians'.

She's a Truther, plain as day. They disregard evidence that is contrary to the conclusion of their choice.

 

[talloola]

I have heard quite enough direct information from relatives who spoke on the phone to loved ones on the
planes, and also those who were trying to exit building.

and, just plain common sense and complete review in ones own mind can tell the story.

The ticket sellers, who directly told their stories.

as far as explosions within the building going on after the fact, da, so much electrical stuff mixed
with water.
the one fellow who told his story going down the stairs talked of hanging electrical live wire swinging
back and forth right over the wet floor they were walking on, and he hoped the whole time it would not make
contact with their floor, but it was flashing and crackling the whole time.

people are really reaching far to try to make something else out of this, but anyone can make up any story,
that is why I like hearing direct from those who had contact with relatives etc.

the idea that bush and friends could or would rig up those buildings to blow up is absurd, as much as I
despise george bush, even I couldn't accuse him of that, and he couldn't go that far either.
Of course there is always government decisions we don't know about, always have been, but really, come on
now, if it had happened like you say, that would have been found out long ago.

It is very paranoid indeed, and the paranoia blocks the common sense from seeing clearly.

As I have explained before, the 'one' long and very clear explanation, (on tv,
complete with diagrams),a few months after 911, which
explained thoroughly just how the planes crashing, and the aviation fuel burning so so hot, caused the
collapse of the buildings made perfect sense to me.
The designers were there to explain their work, and how that particular design would not be used again,
now that this catastrophe had happened.

They went thru the steps very slowly and thoroughly explaining how it happened.

I don't need more, that was clear.

I know a couple of people who are conspiracy theorists, but it goes far beyond that with these people,
as they don't trust many people, and they think many people are tricking them. They won't send in
income tax, or fill out any government forms at all, have no credit rating, no bank account, and try
their best to live invisible to the government.

But, now that he wants to, there is no way he can buy a house either, no one has any record of his
wealth or ability to pay for it.

I couldn't live with such mistrust of so many, but I do have confidence in my own brain and ability to
understand, and I feel very comfortable with my views of the 911 situation, and I don't need to get bogged
down and stuck in the mud, I have moved on long ago.

WOW, imagine all the lies and happenings that are going on behind your back while you are stuck back in
911, you better perk up, you've missed so much in the last ten years. lol lol

 

[EagleSmack]

I have heard quite enough direct information from relatives who spoke on the phone to loved ones on the
planes, and also those who were trying to exit building.

As far as the plane conversations, the Truthers say they simply didn't happen or that the phone calls were staged by the government. Meaning that government agents called the families and disguised their voices to trick their loved ones into thinking the planes were hijacked. Yet again, more evidence that is simply dismissed as it doesn't support the conclusion they want.

Recently I read a Truther was proposing that all of the passengers on all of the flights never existed. Not one.