Girl dead for not wearing burka

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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And just how many interventions have you done? I have seen it happen IN CANADA....

It happens all too frequently with controlling parents and abusive relationships.

Woof!


I'll take the last one you talked about:

Good Samaritin offers daughter avenue for escape. Daddy, Uncles, Brothers and entire male muslim community seek out daughter. Rescuer is accused of nasty things. Daughter is beaten.


13 year old girl is REALLY pissed because Mom and Dad grounded her and she wants to go out with her girlfriends....girl breaks window in bedroom and crawls out window. Paqrents find out where girl is hours later. Police are called, they check with girl and "good samaritan"....go back to parents and tell them daughter is fine..."good samaratin" is girlfriends parents(nice people).... Father and mother want her at home...police say they can't bring her home if she doesn't want to come back...father says he wil go get her...police inform him that he can be charged with kidnapping if he brings her home against her will.

So....tell me again how she couldn't get away? Especially since some of her school friends stated that she HAD run away from home before.

If she had stated her fears to her teachers and they did not report it to social services then that is a break down at the school since teachers are REQUIRED BY LAW to report such things. There is alot more here that is not being reported.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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I've been rolling this around in my head wolf, because I didn't want to respond wrong. And I think I still can't really express thoroughly what I'm trying to say, but, I'll give it a shot anyhow.

I'm finding it really odd that we can separate our culture from our legal system, separate out the finer points of an issue. Yet when we look at other countries and other cultures, we so often lump all of it together into one big ball. A bad legal system means bad people, bad culture. A bad apple in a religion means the religion is bad. What is it about looking at 'them' (any number of other countries/religion/races), that makes us stop seeing the finer points?

What it boils down to is with multiculturalism, it's getting to be anything goes whereas our legal system - with the exception of Quebec - is based on Common Law - the Laws of England. Multiculturalism is a beautiful thing if it's workable. Non-English cultures have different values and their own sets of laws. When they come into conflict with the laws of the land, confusion, then distrust is born. Religion, in that case, has very little to do with it.

Woof!
 
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lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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I'll take the last one you talked about:




13 year old girl is REALLY pissed because Mom and Dad grounded her and she wants to go out with her girlfriends....girl breaks window in bedroom and crawls out window. Paqrents find out where girl is hours later. Police are called, they check with girl and "good samaritan"....go back to parents and tell them daughter is fine..."good samaratin" is girlfriends parents(nice people).... Father and mother want her at home...police say they can't bring her home if she doesn't want to come back...father says he wil go get her...police inform him that he can be charged with kidnapping if he brings her home against her will.

13 year old? Child Welfare Act is still valid. At 16 she has the choice. Are parents part of a problem that police are aware of?

So....tell me again how she couldn't get away? Especially since some of her school friends stated that she HAD run away from home before.

If she had stated her fears to her teachers and they did not report it to social services then that is a break down at the school since teachers are REQUIRED BY LAW to report such things. There is alot more here that is not being reported.

Yes ... there IS a lot more to it. If the child is a habitual run away, that is a symptom.

Woof!
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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To play devil's advocate.... if a white male, devout Christian, who had been arguing with his daughter repeatedly about following the bible's rules as he saw them, was to commit this act, it wouldn't hit the news as being anything to do with his religion. And if it DID hit the news as being about Christianity (ie, he beat her to death for dancing, which flies in the face of his Baptist beliefs), we'd be mighty quick to point out that the death of a girl for 'Christian' reasons is anything but Christian. And that his beliefs aren't the beliefs of all Christians, Catholics dance plenty for example.

Karrie, religious inspired crime hits the news regardless. Just like Catholicism has a problem with diddling priests, Islam has a rather serious problem with all sorts of violence which has been presented quite clearly over the past few years.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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EagleSmack said:
Tolerance people.... tolerance. Who are we to judge other religions or the manner in which they deal with their children.

islam is a peaceful religion and muslims are gentle people.



In Christian America, love supposedly knows no color. But people have died for violating the idea of racial separation:



''my daddy would have killed me for dating a black girl''


 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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"Violence does not stem from religion"

This line bothers me, a religion is just a belief system which may or may not involve higher powers. Some religions are based upon concept of violence, they aren't major players (anymore) but they still exist.

To make a blanket statement like "violence doesn't stem from religion" is pretty absurd. Not all religions are about love or tolerance.

Some religions, even moderately popular ones, are all about violence and oppression.
 
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doonertbay

New Member
Dec 12, 2007
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Deportation

If the father of this young girl killed her for not wearing her burka, he should be deported immediately at his own cost(siezing his assets to pay for court costs, as well as any costs incurred while deporting him). Don't drag this out and let another foreigner abuse our legal system (Karl Heinz Schrieber), deport him immediately after conviction of murdering his own daughter, with no chance of re-entering Canada for the duration of his life, not even as a temporary visitor.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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What this person did is not sanctioned by the Quran. The Quran allows a man to use corporal punishment against his wife as long as the act does not cause injury.

references:


http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/dv-4-34-shafaat.html

Compare that above with Canadian law regarding corporal punishment of children:

On January 30, 2004, the Supreme Court of Canada released its decision in the case of Canadian Foundation for Children, Youth and the Law v. The Attorney General in Right of Canada, which concerns the use of force by parents and teachers to correct a child...

...the Supreme Court held that section 43 ensures that the criminal law applies to any use of force that harms a child, but does not apply where the use of force “is part of a genuine effort to educate the child, poses no reasonable risk of harm that is more than transitory and trifling, and is reasonable under the circumstances.”

http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/news/fs/2004/doc_31114.html

I am not saying women are like children, only that corporal punishment of the same severity as sanctioned by the Quran is legal in Canada.
 
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Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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What this person did is not sanctioned by the Quran. The Quran allows a man to use corporal punishment against his wife as long as the act does not cause injury.

references:


http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/dv-4-34-shafaat.html

Compare that above with Canadian law regarding corporal punishment of children:



I am not saying women are like children, only that corporal punishment of the same severity as sanctioned by the Quran is legal in Canada.

The rule of law is not side stepped by the teaching of any religion. While there is wiggle room for interpretation, at no time does the law sanction abuse or violence against anyone other than in some very particular and stringent circumstances. Such as the police arresting someone and they resist or as a response to imminent peril to life or limb.

To say the Quran doesn't promote violence is I think an attempt to deflect criticism to the detriment of both the religion and the welfare of those who choose to practice that faith.
There are obviously problems within Islam that must be addressed in the same way that there are problems within Christianity and all other religions that must be addressed.

This just happens to be the moment in time that the focus in on Islam and the teachings of the Quran.

Personally I find that there is more often than not, someone feeling that their belief system is under attack, that they respond in kind and the issue quickly become polarized. How do you talk about the finer interpretations when the rhetoric is used to surround the extreme opposites of the discussion?

It's not just a simple question of regulating away some barbaric aspect of an ancient tradition and calling it progressive thinking. There is always a multi-faceted pressures around any important issue and most often these fail to be addressed which results is a disservice to the people to whom the issues affect most.

As in this case, there was just not enough awareness and support for this kid to make the leap from support by her family to divorcing herself from that support without turning to the street life that awaits so many children who are driven to leave their home.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
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No it won't.

I've traced my family back over three hundred years and not one of them ever killed his daughter for wearing the wrong clothes.
Canadian Confederation was in 1867 and it has always been illegal in this country to kill your family or anyone else for their choice of wardrobe. :roll::smile:


And nothing in your article proves that the father killed his daughter for not wearing the right clothes, you guys are really pathetic, to step to the conclusion like that.
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
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There you go Logic! That's what I am talking about. There must be a perfectly good reason for him killing his daughter. Canada should be much more patient in dealing with muslims that slaughter their children.


There is nothing in there that proves that he killed his daughter, nothing at all.

However canadians and americans are killing muslim on a daily basis, so if i was you , i would shut the **** up.

This thread is a racist one, withouth any freaking evidence, and juan you should be ****ing ashame of this thread

So guys, instead of bull****ing everything, you should look hard for evidence to support your stupidity.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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There is nothing in there that proves that he killed his daughter, nothing at all.

However canadians and americans are killing muslim on a daily basis, so if i was you , i would shut the **** up.

This thread is a racist one, withouth any freaking evidence, and juan you should be ****ing ashame of this thread

So guys, instead of bull****ing everything, you should look hard for evidence to support your stupidity.

heh heh heh

They guy is charged with murder. That call to 911 should probably come back to haunt him should he enter and not guilty plea.

The thread isn't racist at all. Though I think we all should be ashamed that this happened in Canada where we try to have safe guards against this sort of thing. Clearly mor ework needs doing in that regard.

Evidence to support stupidity? I don't think you quite understand the proper meaning of that word. It's not indicative in it's use here for sure.

I hope your day gets a little better from here on. :smile:
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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heh heh heh

They guy is charged with murder. That call to 911 should probably come back to haunt him should he enter and not guilty plea.

I wonder if he'll try to enter a non-guilty plea. Do you think he meant to kill her?
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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aside from that pesky little deal where he said he killed her.

Don't forget Karrie...you're dealing with Logic here. Bin Laden has said over and over on video that he orchrestrated 9/11 but Logic doesn't believe that.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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I wonder if he'll try to enter a non-guilty plea. Do you think he meant to kill her?

Probably not at least that should be what he says. Otherwise, he committed the murder with malice a forethought and should be prosecuted under a 1st degree murder charge.

I would guess that he will say he lost control in a moment of high anxiety and just went too far. Though, the whole choking aspect if proven to be the cause of her death will cause some problems for that defence. You don't restrain anyone by choking them until they are unconscious. Well, I don't anyway. :roll:

When we brush away some of the extra stuff around this case, the Father is a product of his upbringing. Probably raised in the strict style of a fundamental Muslim family and so, tightly bound with ideas of family honour and ego. While this clearly doesn't justify these actions, might help to shed some light on where here Dad was coming from.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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In Pakistan there are over a thousand "family honour murders" every year. In Pakistan they get away with it.
 

EagleSmack

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In Pakistan there are over a thousand "family honour murders" every year. In Pakistan they get away with it.

I saw a documentary on that. There was this family whose daughter came to the US for school. They wanted her to come home and marry a muslim in a prearranged marriage. The thing is that she feel in love with an American and THAT is not good. To make matters worse...she went ahead and married him. Now they are out for her head. They were interviewing her father and brothers and they vowed to find her and kill her or... as the brother said...

"Maybe we will just mutilate her face."

Nice folks.

By the way...the latest news on this story is that the girl was strangled. It could have been an accident though. :roll: