Another Example of Yankee Gun Mentality

[Cliffy]

The first victim of an emotionally charged issue is logic.

 

[Mowich]

One might like to believe that countryboy has written the definitive post to bring this discussion to an end, but somehow I doubt it.

 

[JLM]

DO I SMELL INTOLERANCE HERE?

Yep JLM, you're right. It might not be a matter of sanity though...I think it's more like a case of some people not liking something (or simply thinking a certain way...like "guns are bad and that's that") and then aggressively showing their lack of tolerance for other people's tastes, likes, and dislikes. Of course, they like to preach tolerance themselves, but I guess it only applies selectively.

It's one of the paradoxical things I've always noted about politicians who "lean to the left"...I think they should be free to follow what they believe in, but the same courtesy should be extended to those who don't agree with them. But, all too often they get "rabid" - usually when under pressure or in the heat of the moment - and then things get ugly. And stupid.

...OR MAYBE IT'S JUST ARROGANCE

Mind you, it could be a case of "I'm smarter than you so my opinion counts as being valid and right, and yours does not." That's kind of a Liberal thing, I've noticed. A bit rude, to be sure, but one comes to expect that. After all, just have a look at how their current leader expresses himself during scrums and interviews. Man, if that isn't arrogance, smugness, and superiority, I don't know what is!

BIG GOVERNMENT = BIG SOLUTIONS (?)

And the poor old NDP just wants to "shotgun" (excuse the intended pun there) everything that stands in their way of big government. All guns are bad and should be banned. Does that mean the opinion of the farmer trying to protect his flock just doesn't matter? Or the person who likes to target practise and have a little fun? Sure, the politician might not like guns or might not think a little target practise is actually fun, but why should his/her opinion be imposed over someone else's likes/dislikes? I don't think it's a superior attitude in this case - just intolerance and rudeness, plain and simple.

PEOPLE CAN STILL THINK FOR THEMSELVES (Can't They?)

Of course, I understand why this condition exists. It's based on a belief that society as a whole should be smarter than individuals, when it comes to making important decisions. Good theory, but if you stop and think about it, what makes up a society? People, of course. Would it not make some sense then to allow each of those societal body parts (the people) to think for themselves and live under under societal rules that don't have to spell out every little "don't do this and don't do that" detail? I think that would be known as 'individual freedom' and it's a concept that my father fought for in World War II. And it's one I have always believed in.

THERE IS NO PERFECT SOLUTION

That is pretty much why I can get along with anybody (I have friends who vote NDP and Liberal) but I avoid political discussions when I think there is no point...like, if we believe in two different directions, we might as well agree to disagree and try and get along. Compromise is also a key ingredient of a successful and happy society. In fact, it might be the most important one.

GUNS HAVE A ROLE

And yes, I like guns too. There, I've said it! In fact, I own a whole bunch of them and they have actually saved lives more than once. Well, actually, I saved the lives but the gun figured prominently in the rescues. Rescue from what, you might ask? Well, let's see...shooting a rabid skunk that was about to take a chunk out of a toddler, killing a wolverine that had gotten into someone's house (if you've ever faced one of those, you'd get to appreciate guns in a hurry - and it has to be in a hurry because they can take out your throat in seconds...you don't have a lot of time to stop and think about it!), shooting a bear that was injured, walking on 3 legs, had rotten teeth and couldn't feed itself, and was trying to push in the front window of our house - he would not have made it through the winter on his own so I had to kill him. It's not an easy thing to do because you realize you're taking a life, but at the same time, if one understands a few basics, you know there is no alternative and a decision has to be made, usually in a hurry. There have been many instances like that over the years, and it's all a part of "country living." I've had advice given to me over the years by people who haven't actually lived out in the boonies (city folks) but really...

DO GUN OWNERS ENJOY KILLING THINGS? (I don't think so)

I would rather just limit my shooting to target practise, believe me. I have never met a gun owner who actually enjoys killing anything. Even the hunters I know kill animals for meat and they always seem to treat the animals with respect. I know, some people will yell and scream about why do you have to kill innocent little bambis out there in the forest, but some of those screamers think nothing of dropping in to McD's for a double cheeseburger. Holy crap! They have not been to visit the place where the cows were killed for that burger meat. Now that's torture!

DOWNTOWN IS A DIFFERENT PLACE THAN THE BOONDOCKS

I know it's hard for someone living in a condo in downtown Toronto to relate to something like this (I have lived there myself), but hey, it's a big and diverse country. A federal law isn't always going to work in all parts of the country. I would like nothing better than to carry a handgun around when I'm out working in the bush. Something really effective, like a .44 magnum. If a sick bear attacks me, at least I would have enough time to hold him off while I get the rifle and do the job right. NO, I don't go around blowing away everything that moves...quite the contrary, I have a great deal of respect for nature and wildlife, and I live right in the middle of it.

I CAN'T STAND TO SEE AN ANIMAL SUFFER (Can you?)

There are times when the use of a gun to end a suffering animal's life is a humane thing to do. If you've ever seen a bear hit by a truck and lying in the ditch, crying its eyes out because it has a broken back and is struggling to try and move, you might be thankful that some of us have guns and can end that suffering on the spot. Sure, there are authorities that can do that job, but that might require an hour or two to happen. Why let that poor animal suffer in pain that long? I can't stand it myself. Living in the country often gives one a different perspective on life and death, mainly because you're close to it all the time.

WHAT GOOD IS A MISDIRECTED LAW? (Answer: None)

So, I hope I don't sound "intolerant" here...I'm just trying to point out why some of us appreciate and like having guns around. And, in typical gun owner fashion, I don't for a minute believe that layering more and more legislation on to the books to restrict, register, and otherwise control guns is going to do much to reduce gun-related crimes. CRIMINALS WON'T REGISTER THEIR GUNS! Read that again...CRIMINALS WON'T REGISTER THEIR GUNS!

So, relying on a gun registry to reduce crime would be like pumping up the tires on your car to eliminate that annoying clunk in the engine. You're barking up the wrong tree!

Yep, not a thing there I disagree with. Actually I'm beginning to think discussion of politics is rather silly. The "LEFTS" aren't going to agree with the "RIGHTS" and vice versa. Why anyone aligns themselvers with any of them beats me.

 

[countryboy]

One might like to believe that countryboy has written the definitive post to bring this discussion to an end, but somehow I doubt it.

Aw shucks, I was just a-tryin' to shed some light on why I think guns have an important role to play. But, as Cliffy pointed out, that might be logical, which means it was likely a futile effort.

Hey Cliffy, the second victim would be the logical person, yes? Yikes, now I'm gonna be a victim! Well, what the hell...might as well join the crowd, eh? :canada:

 

[JLM]

One might like to believe that countryboy has written the definitive post to bring this discussion to an end, but somehow I doubt it.

Of course not - the morons have to have the last word.

 

[countryboy]

Yep, not a thing there I disagree with. Actually I'm beginning to think discussion of politics is rather silly. The "LEFTS" aren't going to agree with the "RIGHTS" and vice versa. Why anyone aligns themselvers with any of them beats me.

That's a very good point. I guess it's sometimes a bit 'o fun to play around with the labels...like, if you change those words into adjectives (or would they be adverbs?), you could come up with a little chart like this: ;-)

Noun - Adjective:
Right = Right
Left = Wrong

Couldn't resist. Just sipping the morning coffee and getting the day started off with some logic...oops, I mean fun. (Cliffy tells me there can be no logic in this emotional argument and I do believe he is right)...and who has more fun that people?

 

[EagleSmack]

I hope the gun maker gets charged with the deaths of the police officers

The gun didn't kill the police officer...the bullets did. Charge them.

 

[countryboy]

The gun didn't kill the police officer...the bullets did. Charge them.

And the store that sold them.

 

[DaSleeper]

Countryboy: I can relate to your post #120.....having been born on a farm.....and no one with common sense could argue with what you said....but common sense ain't so common any more....and it's the first thing you must loose to become a politician!

 

[countryboy]

Countryboy: I can relate to your post #120.....having been born on a farm.....and no one with common sense could argue with what you said....but common sense ain't so common any more....and it's the first thing you must loose to become a politician!

Yeah, I've noticed that common sense seems to melt away as most politicians fall all over themselves, trying to please all the people all the time, or something like that. It would be a refreshing change to see some politician step up to the plate with a real, clear, and strong vision of where Canada should be going - based on his/her vast experience of talking with folks and understanding generally what they'd like to see - and then spend some time figuring out how to get there.

But alas...the people wouldn't tolerate something like that because that same politician would not be paying enough attention to ALL the individual / special needs out there. And "we" all want everything fixed. Right now. Immediately!

Down in the U.S. a long time ago, a guy named Abe Lincoln correctly figured out that you can't "please all the people, all the time." We haven't come to that same conclusion, but I wish we would/could.

Lack of common sense might be one of the most unique aspects of our Canadian culture. Or, maybe we should be calling it "self-destructive behaviour!"

Of course, at the bottom of the pile is something called "values", or those things that we feel are important to us. Obviously, having respect for others ain't exactly at the top of that list, is it? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't values determine attitudes (how we feel about things), and attitudes then govern our behaviour?

If so, then we might want to think about how to conjur up some "value adjustments" instead of the good old "attitude adjustments!" :lol:

 

[Francis2004]

Yeah, I've noticed that common sense seems to melt away as most politicians fall all over themselves, trying to please all the people all the time, or something like that. It would be a refreshing change to see some politician step up to the plate with a real, clear, and strong vision of where Canada should be going - based on his/her vast experience of talking with folks and understanding generally what they'd like to see - and then spend some time figuring out how to get there.

But alas...the people wouldn't tolerate something like that because that same politician would not be paying enough attention to ALL the individual / special needs out there. And "we" all want everything fixed. Right now. Immediately!

Down in the U.S. a long time ago, a guy named Abe Lincoln correctly figured out that you can't "please all the people, all the time." We haven't come to that same conclusion, but I wish we would/could.

Lack of common sense might be one of the most unique aspects of our Canadian culture. Or, maybe we should be calling it "self-destructive behaviour!"

Of course, at the bottom of the pile is something called "values", or those things that we feel are important to us. Obviously, having respect for others ain't exactly at the top of that list, is it? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't values determine attitudes (how we feel about things), and attitudes then govern our behaviour?

If so, then we might want to think about how to conjur up some "value adjustments" instead of the good old "attitude adjustments!" :lol:

Well my opinion is that many start with that objective.. But when the reality of voting hits, numbers win over common sense.

Since common sense does not get you elected and numbers do, I guess human nature dictates that they all do what must be done to gather as many votes as possible.. Hence talk from both sides of their mouths..

Few ever stayed the course of their original values..

 

[TenPenny]

Yep, not a thing there I disagree with. Actually I'm beginning to think discussion of politics is rather silly. The "LEFTS" aren't going to agree with the "RIGHTS" and vice versa. Why anyone aligns themselvers with any of them beats me.

I read an article somewhere that pointed out that almost nobody discussed politics on the net with any intention of changing their position, they do it to keep re-stating their position. There's no point in arguing, becuase none of the people involved have any intention of changing their point of view.

 

[countryboy]

Well my opinion is that many start with that objective.. But when the reality of voting hits, numbers win over common sense.

Since common sense does not get you elected and numbers do, I guess human nature dictates that they all do what must be done to gather as many votes as possible.. Hence talk from both sides of their mouths..

Few ever stayed the course of their original values..

How true. It's a bit like a popularity contest vs. a contest of skills and all that other common sense stuff. And. being an integral part of the process, the media loves to perpetuate that contest. Which makes you wonder about how much common sense exists in the mainstream media. Probably none.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how things are.

 

[JLM]

I read an article somewhere that pointed out that almost nobody discussed politics on the net with any intention of changing their position, they do it to keep re-stating their position. There's no point in arguing, becuase none of the people involved have any intention of changing their point of view.

That's sad in a way although maybe not so much with politics as there is very little point in switching from "Tweedledee" to "Tweedledumb". On other issues though I feel when you quit changing you quit improving and no one is perfect for very long before they die.

 

[Mowich]

That's sad in a way although maybe not so much with politics as there is very little point in switching from "Tweedledee" to "Tweedledumb". On other issues though I feel when you quit changing you quit improving and no one is perfect for very long before they die.

Wow, JLM, you just gave me another reason for living as long as I can - being perfect before I die. heeeeee! haaaa! Oh yah! :lol::lol:

 

[Francis2004]

I read an article somewhere that pointed out that almost nobody discussed politics on the net with any intention of changing their position, they do it to keep re-stating their position. There's no point in arguing, becuase none of the people involved have any intention of changing their point of view.

TenPenny I think in short term people would not change opinion, but long term it may affect their views.. I am not sure of the article you are referring too ( no link provided ) so I have no idea if it was opinion or statistically based and what the basis was.. In any case our opinions are not based on one but rather many views or beliefs and life experiences.. In some cases some are already set and an article or view may re-enforce such belief or do the opposite.

Also our bias can make it so that both of us could read the same article and get totally different views of the message being dispensed from the writer.

 

[JLM]

Wow, JLM, you just gave me another reason for living as long as I can - being perfect before I die. heeeeee! haaaa! Oh yah! :lol::lol:

Yeah, but it's just in your mind............guess I forgot to say that.:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Colpy]

So now you're saying that guns are dangerous, but in a previous post, you said that it was two lunatics that did the massacre at Columbine, not guns. So which is it? Exactly how are guns on a even level with trucks for necessaty? Do guns transport goods and services? Do guns keep the infrastructure of our highways and railways up to par? Do guns move the economy along like the bank, agricultural, natural resource, and manufacturing sectors?

Exactly what point of yours am I proving? You say that both guns and trucks are dangerous. But yet is which of the two is built to cause harm and death right out of the box? You say that both result in tragedy when in misuse. Well, duh. Even a spoon or diecast model is dangerous when is used for a purpose other than what they are made for (especially if you intend to use them to harm someone). Guns cause harm and death even when they are used properly let alone being misused. Your argument proves nothing, again. I view the NRA and other pro-gun organizations as evil and satanic? Prove to me where I said that.

The only point you're proving is that you know nothing about me, and very little about anyting else. I dislike firearms? I have a deep-seated dislike of pro-gun organizations and view them as satanic cults? I think guns are evil? Prove to me that I do.

Oh! I still want an answer to my original question, colpy. Answer it.

From the bottom to the top....I did not answer your question because it was a rhetorical question: by definition, no answer is required.You should read with a little less of a chip on your shoulder; you'll enjoy a better debate.....the "satanic cult" jibe was just that, a light-hearted jibe, followed by a smiley face.........relax, kick back, don't be so uptight......no offense intended.There are a lot of people out there that dislike the NRA....you gave some indication that you are one of them by your introduction of the debate on that organization's behaviour.......if you are a paid-up lifetime member, now would be the time to say so... Firearms made you free and keep you free. I used and carried a firearm for over 10 years to defend my life....and I never killed anyone. Oddly enough, the only co-workers injured and killed in that job died in automobile crashes. There are over 250 million guns in the USA, most of which are used regularly.......yet a lot more people die from car crashes....and yes, guns contribute greatly to the economy....hunters shooters etc spend billions.........Now, ease up on the personal attacks. You've had your one.

 

[Mowich]

Yeah, but it's just in your mind............guess I forgot to say that.:lol::lol::lol:

:angryfire: WHAT! I spent most of the day thinking how wonderful it will be the morning I wake up to find that I am perfect, then I come back here only to have all my hopes dashed. LOL! :lol::lol:

 

[JLM]

:angryfire: WHAT! I spent most of the day thinking how wonderful it will be the morning I wake up to find that I am perfect, then I come back here only to have all my hopes dashed. LOL! :lol::lol:

It will probably take a little time but you'll get over it..:lol::lol::lol: