Do you believe in EVIL?

[MHz]

Wow! Grumpy today are we. Ran out of coffee? The only people who will be in hell will be those who believe in it. They will get out as soon as they figure out that they put themselves in there in the first place.

Maybe it is just the subject that makes me appear to be grumpy, it is somewhat subdued compare to the view that it can be turned into a party.

Ah so you get to decide...know anybody who would jump at the chance to end up there? The view you have might not hold up just because that is what you want. Cover your eyes scratch..
Isa:28:15: Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa:28:18: And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

It would seem that the one who actually controls this has a different outlook on how things actually go. Again, why would this include you, why would you deserve to be in hell instead of just being asleep in the grave? If you only need a little convincing death will certainly take care of that.
Hell is for the bullies of the world, do you belong to that group?

 

[Cliffy]

There you go, quoting a book at me that you know I think is total bunk. People who believe in hell and think that is where they are going, will go there until they figure out there is no such place. Then they can move on to wherever they go after they die. It may be nowhere, it may be they get to reincarnate. Nobody knows for sure. Those guys who wrote the Old Testament were living in hell - the desert. It is always a mystery to me why anybody would think that that tired old book is worth reading or believing.

 

[s_lone]

If you believe there is a Satan you crossed the line again into polytheism. If there is only one god then Satan could only be a human or myth.

I'm not sure you are right. Most Christians commonly understand Satan as being a former angel who was one of the brightest in the sky. Out of pride, Lucifer (which means ''Light-Bringer'' in Latin) eventually refused to bow down before God and was cast out of Heaven...

(A specialist in Christian mythology would perhaps demonstrate that Satan and Lucifer were once different beings but that is beside the point, most Christians see both Lucifer and Satan as one and the same)

So I don't think believing in Satan necessarily makes you a polytheist because Satan is not understood as being a god but an inferior to the One God. God remains the ultimate divinity and authority and it is understood that if all follow His Will, perfect unity and happiness can be obtained for all.

In the end, I guess the God of the major monotheistic religions is supposed to be some form of benevolent dictator...

 

[s_lone]

Then there is karma. What goes around comes around. Those that are responsible for oil spills that kill millions of birds and sea life, i hope come back as a cormorant choking on an oil slick, but that could be wishful thinking or karma.

Wishing for the oil spiller to come back as a cormorant choking on an oil slick is to indirectly wish for oil to continue to be spilt in the future... Is that really what you want?

 

[Vereya]

Those rules are there to protect you from others. You have it as the rules protecting others from you. Wouldn't you also want your neighbor to be under similar rules of conduct? His rules (common sense) could say it is alright to take from you if that is what he wants to do, backed up by physical force. Common sense is now given over to rule by force.
You could adopt the UN charter of rights as a base document, I don't care, but you still need a written set of guidelines that everybody is willing to follow.

I don't have a written set of guidelines. And still I don't remember ever killing someone... or stealing... or raping a small child... or even masturbating in a public place, like you said ;-)And none of my neighbours seem to practice any of these things, as well...8O

 

[MHz]

I'm not sure where you live but all those things are against a current law if you live in Canada. Did you poll all your neighbors as to why they are not doing those things, would any say it is against the law?

 

[petros]

There you go, quoting a book at me that you know I think is total bunk. People who believe in hell and think that is where they are going, will go there until they figure out there is no such place. Then they can move on to wherever they go after they die. It may be nowhere, it may be they get to reincarnate. Nobody knows for sure. Those guys who wrote the Old Testament were living in hell - the desert. It is always a mystery to me why anybody would think that that tired old book is worth reading or believing.

If people actually read they book they cram down people throats they'd find that "hell" is the Jerusalem garbage dump. READ for Christ's sake if not for you own.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

I don’t believe in evil.​

To many people, Evil is just a point of view……………………​

Evil is certainly greater when fraud is resorted to in the inquiry concerning the future life.
Evil could be caused by evil spirits…..
Evil is created only by the malefic actions of humans…..
Evil is easy
Evil is the greatest power in the land of shadows…
Evil is the physical or material world…..

 

[karrie]

what a neat OP.

IMO s_lone, evil exists, as does dark, as does sadness, as does every other force of nature and humanity that has a polar opposite. And, being polar opposites, it isn't always as simple as quantifying something as 'evil' or 'good'. Much in life falls along the scale between the two.

 

[s_lone]

what a neat OP.

IMO s_lone, evil exists, as does dark, as does sadness, as does every other force of nature and humanity that has a polar opposite. And, being polar opposites, it isn't always as simple as quantifying something as 'evil' or 'good'. Much in life falls along the scale between the two.

Glad to have your input Karrie...

Do you believe in an evil entity such as the devil? Does God have his polar opposite?

 

[karrie]

Glad to have your input Karrie...

Do you believe in an evil entity such as the devil? Does God have his polar opposite?

Hmmm... that's a slippery question. To believe in the devil as an entity, I would first have to believe in god as an entity, and I don't. I believe in an energy that binds humanity together and tugs at our consciousness, that gives rise to religions in attempts to explain it. That draws people together in communities and in churches and in festivals. And just like with light and dark, I can't fathom how it could exist without a polar opposite. An actual conscious entity though? That I doubt.

 

[s_lone]

Hmmm... that's a slippery question. To believe in the devil as an entity, I would first have to believe in god as an entity, and I don't. I believe in an energy that binds humanity together and tugs at our consciousness, that gives rise to religions in attempts to explain it. That draws people together in communities and in churches and in festivals. And just like with light and dark, I can't fathom how it could exist without a polar opposite. An actual conscious entity though? That I doubt.

I think you're on an interesting path with the idea of that ''binding'' energy...

Atoms get bound together to create molecules, which are bound together to create complex molecular structures like DNA strands... and thus ever greater structures emerge out of the union of smaller ones... You end up with creatures like humans who can communicate thoughts like these via digital technology... This 'binding' energy is obviously a fundamental part of the world we live in...

This binding energy also expresses itself in our social interactions... We all have a drive to relate to one another, to unite into a greater whole (tribes, society, nations, families etc.). Love is perhaps the ultimate form of this binding energy and it is no wonder that religions, when they are at their best, focus on this aspect of life.

But as you said, it's hard to imagine this binding energy without its polar opposite. We could call it the ''dividing principle''...

There is life, but there is also death... When we die, our body loses its cohesive unity and its global structure breaks down... It disintegrates... Everything goes back to the sub-structures (molecules... atoms...) It goes back to the earth...

Socially, we also have a drive to seperate ourselves from the mass... to be our own persons. Without this 'divisive' principle, individuality could not exist... Communism seems to have failed mostly because of its failure to aknowledge the need for individual freedom. The need to stick out from the mass (for better or for worse)...

It seems to me that these two opposite principles (binding unity vs. multiplicity) are one of the pillars of reality as we can understand it. Everything can eventually be reduced to an interplay between these two fundamental principles... Yin and Yang comes to mind...

This inherent duality is ever present in our lives. And it's tempting to associate good and evil to all this... ''Good'' seems to be what unites us all while ''Evil'' seems to be what divides us.

Yet, I have a hard time imagining how rape and torture can fit in this delicate cosmic balance. Aren't some things just plain BAD?!!!

There's a difference between establishing frontiers and barriers between you and me and downright hating each other wanting the other to suffer...

 

[karrie]

This inherent duality is ever present in our lives. And it's tempting to associate good and evil to all this... ''Good'' seems to be what unites us all while ''Evil'' seems to be what divides us.

Yet, I have a hard time imagining how rape and torture can fit in this delicate cosmic balance. Aren't some things just plain BAD?!!!

There's a difference between establishing frontiers and barriers between you and me and downright hating each other wanting the other to suffer...

Definitely there are some things that are just plain bad. I think. At least, there are things for which I can't see the usefulness of, outside of evil.

 

[darkbeaver]

ure there is, it's called Prozac

Evil is a lot faster than prozac Praxius.

 

[Vereya]

I wrote a book a while back called The Freedom of Responsibility. We are responsible for creating our own reality. If life is crapping on us from a great height, then we are not taking responsibility for the outcome. Most people create their reality by default, using someone else' ideas to guide their lives then wonder why nothing ever seems to change, why they keep repeating the same old patterns of behaviour, reliving the same experiences.
Imagine the life you want and it will manifest.

Cliffy, I was wondering if the book you have written is available somehow? I would like to take a look at it, if it is possible :smile:

 

[Cliffy]

Vereya,

Sorry Vereya, I posted the wrong link the first time. This one should get you there.

http://www.lulu.com/content/798511

 

[Vereya]

Vereya,

Sorry Vereya, I posted the wrong link the first time. This one should get you there.

http://www.lulu.com/content/798511

Thanks, Cliffy! I will definitely take a very good look at it! :smile:

 

[scratch]

...and the point of the link was?

 

[In Between Man]

Sorry I missed this Dex.

Why does the source have to be objective? And what does that really mean anyway? I would assume you mean the source must be something outside of or beyond ourselves.

Exactly. Outside of ourselves. As in, its NOT just an opinion that the holocaust was evil. But rather, it actually WAS evil. But more just objective of us, but also written on our hearts. Our conscience is a manifestation of objective morality.

In other words, was the holocaust actually wrong/evil? Or is it relative? Just an opinion, even with consensus.

Would you also require that there be an objective source of evil?

The source of evil is our free choice. Innocent people dying? How is that a result of free choice? Thats another thread, another day.

By requiring an objective source for one or both, you're already biasing the terms of the discussion in a way that limits the arguments you'll accept as legitimate.

That's completely false. I'm willing to hear any argument. If you wish to make a case that evil or morality itself is relative, please do. Although I suspect you were already planning it after my case. ;-)

Implicitly, you're claiming that mere humans are incapable of distinguishing good and evil by themselves; you need to justify that claim before you can justify closing off that part of the discussion, otherwise you're just begging the question.

Humans are completely capable of distinguishing b/w good and evil for themselves! I can see why you think objective morality implies that, but no. The question is: What are we doing, when we recognize evil? What are we comparing it to? Where does that standard of right and wrong come from? If morality really is relative, why do we acknowledge that some things are absolutely wrong.

later Dex!

 

[Francis2004]

Why must one fear Hell?

I have come as close to death as one can and do not fear it at all. I am however curious to people opinion..

What makes you believe you are any better off then me because of your beliefs. I don't believe I am better off then anyone else for what, how and why I believe and how I live my life. I am who I am..