Do you believe in EVIL?

[Dexter Sinister]

][/i]We are born with an innate knowledge of right and wrong.

Well... I agree with your general conclusions, but I don't think that's right. I think right and wrong are socially constructed values that are learned, not inborn. My experience as a parent with newborns, and my observations of other parents with newborns, strongly suggests to me that babies are totally selfish and self-centered, not interested in anything but themselves. The major task of parenting, it seems to me, is getting your children to recognize that they cannot be a law unto themselves.

 

[Cliffy]

You have a point there Dexter. But I think if children were allowed to develop without too many influences imposed on them, they would eventually work out what is a good thing or a bad thing. Just experiencing the consequences of our actions should teach us that. But the reality is that society decides that kids are just empty vessels that need to be filled up with all our concepts and beliefs about the reality we inherit, we end up living in allusion instead of reality - the Matrix. A computer construct based on false pretenses and beliefs.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...they would eventually work out what is a good thing or a bad thing...

Agreed, but that's kind of my point: they aren't born knowing it, they have to work it out from the experience of trying to be part of something larger than themselves. I think that's where all human ethics and values come from, the recognition of the need to cooperate and compromise and come to some consensus about what's allowed and disallowed behaviour if you're going to have a workable society. Religious justifications for it all are just post hoc rationalizations.

Ever read Lord of the Flies by William Golding? A most instructive and insightful novel.

 

[Francis2004]

It's gibberish to say no rules.

We are born with an innate knowledge of right and wrong. We learn how to do things that hurt others through the examples and attitudes of others. Good and bad are judgments, not rules or laws. Laws are for people who have had their innate knowledge twisted by society.

I live by a simple principle: if it feels good, it is in tune with my higher purpose. If it feels bad, I am not living up to that purpose. Eventually, by elimination, I will come to know my purpose, if I don't die first. Then I might have to come back and pick up on where I left off.

Cliffy, you realize you make no sense..

If something feels good it is in tune with my higher purpose? What kind of crap is that ? I think you are mixing standard subconscious "moral standards guilt" with religious 'moral standards".

So you feel like masturbating in public park in front of kids and being a pedophile that is OK ? Get real man..


And Cliffy and Dexter Sinister,
a newborn has a concept of right and wrong.. Fact is a normal newborn knows not to over eat, cry when hungry and it is ill. Only when it is older "infant stage" does it get confused on how to use these motives to manipulate adults for other purposes ( attention getting )..

Treating your child as a little person and not a child is much better then beatting the "law" as much as posible from day one. Fact is my 5 year old has never had a temper tantrum with me because I treat him as he deserves as mentioned above. Patience and treating equal to his 17 year old sister in terms he can understand at his 5 year old level gives him the respect he deserves. While that is true to him, dealing with the 17 year old deserves the same respect as she pushes the limit on her side. Consequence are calculated per their age level but equally applied. The consequence applies to me if I break a rule showing the kids I am equal to them and human, but always leading the way by example.

I have grounded my 5 year old 2 times in his life time and since my ex-wife moved out my 17 year old has not been grounded. She has never been involved in drugs, is not involved with bad friends and has improving her social skill 100% daily with all her "social problems" which we do not lean on.

Kids are only as good as the example you set for them and we are only as good as we set as the beliefs we set for ourselves.

Your beliefs are only as good as your morals. Morals not need be religious..

 

[Cliffy]

Ever read Lord of the Flies by William Golding? A most instructive and insightful novel.

Read the book, saw the movie. That is why I postulate that if there was a breakdown in the social order that people would revert back to the lowest common denominator - infanticide, cannibalism, murder and mayhem. Those that need the restraints the most will be the first to lose it.

I see this economic meltdown eventually leading to mass civil unrest and chaos. I have seen evidence of massive internment camps in the US and Canada that are there for just such a possibility (or is it inevitability?).

We live in interesting times my friend. The next few years could be more exciting than any Hollywood movie.

 

[Vereya]

That's what i mean when I say that some answers should just be kept to the owner alone........
Does that give you the right to masturbate while sitting on a park bench? Something like that would come under a rule or no rule.

Do you REALLY need the ten commandments to regulate THAT for you? 8O Won't plain old common sense do just as well?..
I'm afraid of you.... 8O

 

[Cliffy]

So you feel like masturbating in public park in front of kids and being a pedophile that is OK ? Get real man.

Sir FrancisDo you think that someone like you describe is not a tormented soul. Do you not think that they know what they are doing is completely wrong, that they would be hurting someone. People who inflict pain are in pain themselves. They know not who they are, have never been taught how to love themselves, are full of self loathing. Do you think they actually feel pleasure. They may experience a slight, short lived relief from their own suffering but pleasure... I doubt it. Only a really sick individual would harm a child. I'm still not convinced if rehabilitation is possible or a short, sharp, shock is required.

By the way, you seem to have the parenting thing down pat. Too few have the knowledge or the patience. There may be hope for humanity yet.

 

[Cliffy]

Won't plain old common sense do just as well?..

Vereya,I do not know why it is called common sense. There so little of it around. If there was more of it around there wouldn't be a need for religion. Some people need a higher power to regulate their actions. I prefer to be my own higher power.

I wrote a book a while back called The Freedom of Responsibility. We are responsible for creating our own reality. If life is crapping on us from a great height, then we are not taking responsibility for the outcome. Most people create their reality by default, using someone else' ideas to guide their lives then wonder why nothing ever seems to change, why they keep repeating the same old patterns of behaviour, reliving the same experiences.

Imagine the life you want and it will manifest.

 

[Francis2004]

So you feel like masturbating in public park in front of kids and being a pedophile that is OK ? Get real man.

Sir FrancisDo you think that someone like you describe is not a tormented soul. Do you not think that they know what they are doing is completely wrong, that they would be hurting someone. People who inflict pain are in pain themselves. They know not who they are, have never been taught how to love themselves, are full of self loathing. Do you think they actually feel pleasure. They may experience a slight, short lived relief from their own suffering but pleasure... I doubt it. Only a really sick individual would harm a child. I'm still not convinced if rehabilitation is possible or a short, sharp, shock is required.

Cliffy, sarcasm man as I was making a point.

 

[Vereya]

Won't plain old common sense do just as well?..

Vereya,I do not know why it is called common sense. There so little of it around. If there was more of it around there wouldn't be a need for religion. Some people need a higher power to regulate their actions. I prefer to be my own higher power.

I wrote a book a while back called The Freedom of Responsibility. We are responsible for creating our own reality. If life is crapping on us from a great height, then we are not taking responsibility for the outcome. Most people create their reality by default, using someone else' ideas to guide their lives then wonder why nothing ever seems to change, why they keep repeating the same old patterns of behaviour, reliving the same experiences.

Imagine the life you want and it will manifest.

This is my point of view exactly, Cliffy! I forget if I posted this somewhere here, before, but here goes - your life is a reflection of what you are. The external circumstances of your life are but a manifestation of your inner world. It is you and you alone who can shape your life to make it what you want it to be.

 

[Cliffy]

Vereya,

Bingo!

I have to make a confession. I'm falling in love with your avatar.

 

[Vereya]

Vereya,

Bingo!

I have to make a confession. I'm falling in love with your avatar.

Cliffy, what a nice confession to hear right at the beginning of the day!! :smile:

 

[scratch]

Vereya,
Я люблю проблескивая глаза.
Отношения,
скрест

 

[Vereya]

Vereya,
Я люблю проблескивая глаза.
Отношения,
скрест

Scratch,
как мило! Я очень тронута!

 

[scratch]

Vereya, было моим pleasyre

 

[MHz]

Interesting that some like to think they can redefine what sort of place hell is.
Does it scare you so much that you need to make it appear like it wouldn't be so bad. You entice people with thought of some famous non-violent people being there. They won't be there, they will be asleep in death. Hell is for the violent sinners and while most of you appear to be in the dark about the darkness let the author clue you in a bit.
Isa:65:12:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Isa:65:13:
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Isa:65:14:
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

Now you have a foundation to build your model of hell on.
The ones above, the God (whom you see as being mean) also does this to the same people that are in torment. Vs:21-25.

If hell is a change from here then being jovial about it now would mean it is the opposite once you are actually there.

Joel has a bit to say about the place, he knows you can't escape if God is determined that somebody is going there for a certain period of time. After a few days he was quite willing to do what God had originally asked him to do. Tell me that the ones in hell that you are planning to be with would not like to be out in 3 days rather than doing the whole 1,000 years. That is what you will get to listen to, all the while looking at the father of lies stapled to the walls of the pit for all to see and admire, since you are there by choice..

 

[scratch]

With all due respect to you, and in my opinion, a lot of words about a non-existent place.

 

[Cliffy]

Wow! Grumpy today are we. Ran out of coffee? The only people who will be in hell will be those who believe in it. They will get out as soon as they figure out that they put themselves in there in the first place.

 

[MHz]

Do you REALLY need the ten commandments to regulate THAT for you? 8O Won't plain old common sense do just as well?..
I'm afraid of you.... 8O

Those rules are there to protect you from others. You have it as the rules protecting others from you. Wouldn't you also want your neighbor to be under similar rules of conduct? His rules (common sense) could say it is alright to take from you if that is what he wants to do, backed up by physical force. Common sense is now given over to rule by force.

You could adopt the UN charter of rights as a base document, I don't care, but you still need a written set of guidelines that everybody is willing to follow.

 

[MHz]

Yes, but that's not a perpetual motion machine, moving the weights back and forth requires a constant input of energy. Without an energy input, friction in the bearings the weights ride on, and in the axle the device rotates around, will bring it to a halt. The other design you described won't work for the same reasons. A perpetual motion machine cannot be built.

What is the best low-friction bearing? The main disk would need a set, and eachof the 4 shafts that hold the arms. The 'gear' on the main-shaft should be 4x as wide as the 'gears' on the arm. A cogged belt would be the simplest and frictionless.

If you view this from the side and draw a line parallel to the ground and going through the center of the main axel and through two points on the outer part of the disk that hold two arms you have to do this begore the sprockets are engaged. The one on the right would have it's arm following along that same line. At the tip of that arm you add a very heavy weight. Since the break is on when you ley go this stays in position. On the left-hand side you lift the arm up so it is also pointing to the right. That puts the end of the arm somewhere between the outside of the disk and the stationary axle at the center of the disk. Add the same amount of weight to the end of the arm. If you were to rotate this assembly by hand the disk would rotate counter clockwise and the arms would rotate clockwise. The weights on the arms would be outside the disl when on the right, and inside when on the left (when at the top and bottom they would be the same distance away from the center axle as the outside of the disk)

Is that still the same as you thought it would look like?
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