who's with me ?

[relic]

Does any one else think we need,while we have the biggest debt in history,a fleet of fighter jets,bought without tender,while parliment is on vacation ?
I think it's a perfect example of steves "I can do waht i want 'cause iggy's a wimp"attitude.

 

[petros]

Well considering CPP and EI funds are heavily invested in Lockheed Martin and Raytheon, tendering to anyone else would be kinda silly. Besides this will create tens of jobs across Canada.

 

[JLM]

Does any one else think we need,while we have the biggest debt in history,a fleet of fighter jets,bought without tender,while parliment is on vacation ?
I think it's a perfect example of steves "I can do waht i want 'cause iggy's a wimp"attitude.

I'm afraid I can't help you out much here, except to say three things, we definitely need a "military presence"- probably to a greater degree than we already have. HOwever I was a little shocked to hear them talking "$billions"- thought it should only be $millions. I'm also a little disturbed to hear Peter MacKay making big decisions on his own. I know we have to protect ourselves against "the enemy", but I think the biggest enemy our country has right now is street drug importers and pushers and besides being the biggest enemy they are also the biggest threat. Sorry for the digression. :smile::smile:

 

[CDNBear]

The Liberals say the massive purchase of 65 jets should have been subjected to competitive bids.

Read more: CBC News - Canada - Canada to spend $9B on F-35 fighter jets
​

Why? What's the big deal?

The CF 18 is antiquated, and needs to be replaced.

So what if the Gov't didn't put out a bid.

If I want to buy a GMC Yukon, I certainly won't ask Ford how much they can make it for. They don't make what I want. The F 35 is in the same boat.

In the past, when the Gov't, under the Liberals, put out tender bids for wheeled support equipment, we ended up with Mercedes Benz Unimogs. A top heavy POS, which needed constant maintenance, parts that take 6+ months to get and the Gov't still had to lower our prerequisites to allow that bid to go through. Over all, they cost 3 to 4 times what we could have been purchasing American built munitions class vehicles.

Furthermore, the last time we tried to buy helo's, Canada attempted to reinvent the bloody thing. Instead of just buying a proven platform. Much like the F 35. Popular Mechanics gives it an excellent write up and it has little criticism written about it, other than cost over runs in the development and pre-production phase.

I'll bet none of this actions detractors have ever had to deal with previous gov'ts bungling purchases. Like the Iltis, a glorified go cart. The Unimog an expensive POS. The Mercedes Benz G Class. We live next door to the worlds largest producer of military equipment. Parts are usually readily available and easy to procure. It's about god damned time we tapped into that benefit.

Why do people think when it comes to buying munitions class equipment, vehicles, platforms and aircraft, we should be looking for the cheap.

F!ck you, my buddies rely on that stuff to survive, do a job and get that job done.

Wake up and take your collective heads out of your asses. If you really need something to bitch about Harpo and company for. Go find something legit. Until then you just look like a moron.

 

[petros]

An F-35 is 1 short of being twice as good as an F-18.

The math doesn't lie.

 

[TenPenny]

Technically, there was a competitive bid, in the US.
We're just piggybacking on that process.

It's a well-established practice in the commercial aircraft and railroad business, you can save money by tacking your order onto the end of an existing order, that way, things don't have to be designed from scratch, it's just more of the same.

 

[taxslave]

The only thing iggy & Co. have against the F35 is that it is not built by Bombardier in Quebec. Due to the equally idiotic moves by a previous Liberal government we still do not have airworthy choppers.
There are some things that just cannot be put out to tender because there is no competition unless you manipulate the tender requirements. We don't want the same problems we have with many of the trucks we got sucked into buying from Europe. High maintenance, expensive, hard to get parts for and poorly designed.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

Does any one else think we need,while we have the biggest debt in history,a fleet of fighter jets,bought without tender,while parliment is on vacation ?
I think it's a perfect example of steves "I can do waht i want 'cause iggy's a wimp"attitude.

I'm not with you - my husband was a Sea king pilot - the replacement that the Air Force wanted wasn't a 'Cadillac' and it was really disgusting how self righteous Chretien was when he scrapped the replacement project - not to mention stupid. all that money put into research, all the man hours - not to mention the penalties Canada had to pay because he decided to back out of the deal. And did he do it because it was a fiscally responsible thing to do? He did it because the Sea King replacement project was a Mulroney thing. Gee - guess the Liberals and Conservatives are birds of a feather ...
But personal as the spouse of a man that had to go up in those dinosaurs - I was insulted that he thought so little of the men and women who work hard, and risk their lives going out in them - and while the Sea King's primary task was sub hunting? a lot of what they do is search and rescue.
No wonder I have very little respect for politicians ....

 

[#juan]

Canada was involved early on in the development of the F-35. As the design grew and became more solidified, prices were asked for.
Canada has been courted by European suppliers as well so we pretty well knew the price of the competition. I hope they have one flying or at least on static display at the Abbottsford Airshow.

 

[AnnaG]

I'm not with you - my husband was a Sea king pilot - the replacement that the Air Force wanted wasn't a 'Cadillac' and it was really disgusting how self righteous Chretien was when he scrapped the replacement project - not to mention stupid. all that money put into research, all the man hours - not to mention the penalties Canada had to pay because he decided to back out of the deal. And did he do it because it was a fiscally responsible thing to do? He did it because the Sea King replacement project was a Mulroney thing. Gee - guess the Liberals and Conservatives are birds of a feather ...
But personal as the spouse of a man that had to go up in those dinosaurs - I was insulted that he thought so little of the men and women who work hard, and risk their lives going out in them - and while the Sea King's primary task was sub hunting? a lot of what they do is search and rescue.
No wonder I have very little respect for politicians ....

Right. Stuff like that is the reason I and hubby think that good sense and the concept of an understanding relationship between politicians and citizens is left on the welcome mats at parliament buildings upon entry.

 

[Machjo]

I'm afraid I can't help you out much here, except to say three things, we definitely need a "military presence"- probably to a greater degree than we already have. HOwever I was a little shocked to hear them talking "$billions"- thought it should only be $millions. I'm also a little disturbed to hear Peter MacKay making big decisions on his own. I know we have to protect ourselves against "the enemy", but I think the biggest enemy our country has right now is street drug importers and pushers and besides being the biggest enemy they are also the biggest threat. Sorry for the digression. :smile::smile:

Well, we need fighter jets to fight the war on drugs.

 

[AnnaG]

Contrary to what JLM said, I think our biggest enemy is our political system's misuse by politicians.

 

[Tonington]

I don't think we should ever base our procurements for military hardware on what the Liberal party says, they simply aren't credible when it comes to handling the process themselves.

 

[JLM]

Contrary to what JLM said, I think our biggest enemy is our political system's misuse by politicians.

And you think they aren't on drugs too? :smile::smile::smile:

 

[relic]

I think the money would be better spent on some boats,for the navy or coast guard to check on the north and catch poluters and foreign over fishing.Meby even catch a few tons of dope.Even 'copters would make more sence than fighter jets.That's a lot of money foe entertainment at air shows

 

[taxslave]

I think the money would be better spent on some boats,for the navy or coast guard to check on the north and catch poluters and foreign over fishing.Meby even catch a few tons of dope.Even 'copters would make more sence than fighter jets.That's a lot of money foe entertainment at air shows

We have Auras for long range patrol but they are past due for replacement as well. The Sea Kings are so scary that when one managed to get airborne at Comox we would hide out when it came in to land. All our forces have been left with antiquated equipment by successive Liberal governments that it is now a major expenditure just to keep the junk running. The bureaucracy in DND is totally out of control and has no clue about anything to do with iron. All they can do is fly around the country and dream up useless ways to spend taxpayers money.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

We have Auras for long range patrol but they are past due for replacement as well. The Sea Kings are so scary that when one managed to get airborne at Comox we would hide out when it came in to land. All our forces have been left with antiquated equipment by successive Liberal governments that it is now a major expenditure just to keep the junk running. The bureaucracy in DND is totally out of control and has no clue about anything to do with iron. All they can do is fly around the country and dream up useless ways to spend taxpayers money.

Uh - it's not actual military that's the problem - it's the civilian minions in the ministry - you know, guys like the deputy minister? the military can only advise on what they actually need and they can advise until the cows come home - unless the civilians in the ministerial bureaucracy decide to actually listen rather than look to what they think is more politically advantageous - they're stuck.

 

[Bar Sinister]

I have another question. Why does Canada need any fighter jets at all? It is not as if they are really needed in any military capacity. It seems to me that new jets are being bought simply because we have old ones that need replacing, however, if they are to be used the way the F18s were used then it is simply throwing good money after bad. I would prefer to see the money spent on some aspect of our armed forces that is actually used, such as the ground forces. However, if money must be spent on the air force how about equipping it with something that might actually get used, like more helicopters or transports?

 

[CDNBear]

I have another question. Why does Canada need any fighter jets at all?

Air defence.

It is not as if they are really needed in any military capacity.

Incorrect, they are an integral part of any fighting force. Including ground forces.

It seems to me that new jets are being bought simply because we have old ones that need replacing, however, if they are to be used the way the F18s were used then it is simply throwing good money after bad.

What do you mean "used like the F 18's were"? The F 18's have served us well in a number of engagements, reccy, and SAR deployments.

I would prefer to see the money spent on some aspect of our armed forces that is actually used, such as the ground forces.

The two actually go hand in hand, believe it or not.

However, if money must be spent on the air force how about equipping it with something that might actually get used, like more helicopters or transports?

I actually kind of agree here. I would love to see the CH 146 replaced with the AW 159. A multi platform helo.

Other then that we have already procured 4 C 17's for heavy transport.

 

[TenPenny]

I have another question. Why does Canada need any fighter jets at all? It is not as if they are really needed in any military capacity.

Really?

So our F18s are never flown on patrol missions? Ever?
You're suggesting that Canada doesn't need any air defense capability?