Tories on e-snooping: ‘Stand with us or with the child pornographers’

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
With the technology we have, we should have every bill voted on by the citizenry: read the bill, vote on it over the internet. No advertising, no propaganda, no soft sell/hard sell politics. Parliament is unruly and corrupted by corporate lobbying and back room deals. If anybody thinks the Mulroney and Chretien scandals were all there were is just being naive. It happens all the time in every party. If we want a true democracy then we had better demand a say in what it does. Voting once every four years is not democracy, it is an abdication of our responsibility. There is no excuse for this nonsense any more.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
With the technology we have, we should have every bill voted on by the citizenry: read the bill, vote on it over the internet. No advertising, no propaganda, no soft sell/hard sell politics. Parliament is unruly and corrupted by corporate lobbying and back room deals. If anybody thinks the Mulroney and Chretien scandals were all there were is just being naive. It happens all the time in every party. If we want a true democracy then we had better demand a say in what it does. Voting once every four years is not democracy, it is an abdication of our responsibility. There is no excuse for this nonsense any more.

Athenian democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Athenian democracy developed in the Greek city-state of Athens, comprising the central city-state of Athens and the surrounding territory of Attica, around 508 BC. Athens is one of the first known democracies. Other Greek cities set up democracies, and even though most followed an Athenian model, none were as powerful, stable, nor as well-documented as that of Athens. It remains a unique and intriguing experiment in direct democracy where the people do not elect representatives to vote on their behalf but vote on legislation and executive bills in their own right. Participation was by no means open, but the in-group of participants was constituted with no reference to economic class and they participated on a scale that was truly phenomenal. The public opinion of voters was remarkably influenced by the political satire performed by the comic poets at the theatres.[1]

Solon (594 BC), Cleisthenes (508/7 BC), and Ephialtes (462 BC) all contributed to the development of Athenian democracy. Historians differ on which of them was responsible for which institution, and which of them most represented a truly democratic movement. It is most usual to date Athenian democracy from Cleisthenes, since Solon's constitution fell and was replaced by the tyranny of Peisistratus, whereas Ephialtes revised Cleisthenes' constitution relatively peacefully. Hipparchus, brother of the tyrant Hippias, was killed by Harmodius and Aristogeiton, who were subsequently honored by the Athenians for their alleged restoration of Athenian freedom.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Maybe that is part of being a democracy............each voter gets the choice of how he/she votes and the reasons why! :smile:

Yes, what I'm saying is it doesn't necessarily mean we trust them to make the best decisions.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
And that is sad because after all is said and done we ARE the government! :smile:
No, we aren't. Our representatives are the gov't. We only get some say on election day.

Apologies if this is posted elsewhere, a cursory search turned up notta.

Anonymous threatens Vic Toews, demands complete retraction of the legislation, and Toews resignation, or else they will release all the information they have learned about him.
Hacker group Anonymous posts video demanding Vic Toews resign and scrap Bill C-30 | Canada.com
lol Cool, more pressure on Toews the Twit.

More like: We are SUPPOSED TO BE the Govt.
Right.

Since we are pretty much the sole source of the money,
With little say in what's done with it.
I'll stick with the original statement! :lol:
Canadians being the gov't is in theory only. In reality, we aren't.

Which policy has been imposed? Do we want to foot an election every time a sh*tty member's bill is flown?
Nope, we have referendums and petitions. Referendums are rare, so we are left with petitions and letters to MPs. People are too lazy or unconcerned to sign petitions and write letters, so most letters and petitions are ignored.

If it is the people you call the "govt" (you and I) who don't like the bill and it is supported by less than a majority of the people, then it is imposed and has nothing to do with a Democratic decision.
People have to get interested enough in the first place. Most don't notice there might be something they need to support or refuse. And a lot of bills slide through without much notice.

When we elect a majority gov't. that means we've trusted decisions in their hands, so if they betray our trust that means they are susceptible to being turfed after four years. Do we really want a regime like Italy had years ago? Some people (generally the same people who demand services) scream blue bloody murder if our taxes are increased by two bits. :lol:
Yeah. Democracy one day in four years. It's such a lovely system.

The closest thing there is to a direct democracy these days is in Switzerland.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Nope, we have referendums and petitions. Referendums are rare, so we are left with petitions and letters to MPs. People are too lazy or unconcerned to sign petitions and write letters, so most letters and petitions are ignored.

I'm always a little suspicious of petition so will reluctantly sign one after going over it with a fine tooth comb. Some are started for ulterior reasons generally to benefit the generator. Others sign the thing without really weighing all the pros and cons. If I see it as something to improve the general good over the long haul, perhaps I will sign it.

A lot can happen in one day even if it's only once in four years as both the Liberals and N.D.P. found out last May.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
I'm always a little suspicious of petition so will reluctantly sign one after going over it with a fine tooth comb. Some are started for ulterior reasons generally to benefit the generator. Others sign the thing without really weighing all the pros and cons. If I see it as something to improve the general good over the long haul, perhaps I will sign it.
So? The issue remains that we have so little say over gov't that it means pretty much nothing to say that we are gov't.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
So? The issue remains that we have so little say over gov't that it means pretty much nothing to say that we are gov't.

Well if 3 people got 3 people and they got 3 people and so on to write 3 letters a week. 1 to the PM, 1 to your member and the other to the Minister invloved, remember writng an MP is free, how would they respond. All on 1 topic - against this bill etc.

Now each week they send the same letter. Wonder what the reaction would be after they recieve the first 3 or 4hundred thousand. With the promise of more to come.

And heaven help the MP who had them destroyed, imagine how well that would go over and the media would have a heyday.

Jus thinkin is all.:smile:
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Well if 3 people got 3 people and they got 3 people and so on to write 3 letters a week. 1 to the PM, 1 to your member and the other to the Minister invloved, remember writng an MP is free, how would they respond. All on 1 topic - against this bill etc.

Now each week they send the same letter. Wonder what the reaction would be after they recieve the first 3 or 4hundred thousand. With the promise of more to come.

And heaven help the MP who had them destroyed, imagine how well that would go over and the media would have a heyday.

Jus thinkin is all.:smile:
That's what the principle of petitions is. Enough people make a fuss that it becomes inpossible to ignore.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
This subject is being dealt with right now on Cross Country Checkup (Rex Murphy) C.B.C. radio. Lots of information surfacing.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Well if 3 people got 3 people and they got 3 people and so on to write 3 letters a week. 1 to the PM, 1 to your member and the other to the Minister invloved, remember writng an MP is free, how would they respond. All on 1 topic - against this bill etc.

Now each week they send the same letter. Wonder what the reaction would be after they recieve the first 3 or 4hundred thousand. With the promise of more to come.

And heaven help the MP who had them destroyed, imagine how well that would go over and the media would have a heyday.

Jus thinkin is all.:smile:

I believe that is already happening, although today we don't call it a petition, we call it tweeting.