Thames threatens thousands in UK

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Wrong.

The amount of meltwater produced by melting ice in water is equal to the amount of water that that ice displaces. It makes no difference how much of the ice is below and above the water.

Melting ice will not overflow a glass of water, even if there is ice above the surface of the liquid.

Most of the Arctic ice is floating on the sea. if all that floating Arctic ice - the majority of it - melted, there will be NO change in sea levels, as that meltwater added to the water displaces the water as much as it did when it was a solid.

The Warmists have got it wrong when they say that melting sea ice causes sea levels to rise. Science shows otherwise.

Global Warming, I'm glad to say, is slowly collapsing.

Nope. You're dead wrong. The piece you're missing is dissolved minerals, aka electrolytes.

The reason most people erroneously believe this is because they do not understand a key aspect of how Archimedes' principle works in this situation. If you melt sea ice, you don't get sea water. During the freezing process, brine rejection occurs and the resulting ice has a lower conductivity -or salinity if you prefer- than sea water. Freshwater is less dense than salt water due to obviously, the lack of dissolved minerals. Freshwater has a density of 1.0 g/mL, while salt water has a density of 1.025 g/mL. Therefore, freshwater has a greater volume than an equivalent weight of salt water. When you melt sea ice that is displacing salt water, the result is the volume of the water increases.

Deniers like yourself would do well to learn some more physics, but I doubt that will happen.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Wrong.

The amount of meltwater produced by melting ice in water is equal to the amount of water that that ice displaces. It makes no difference how much of the ice is below and above the water.

Melting ice will not overflow a glass of water, even if there is ice above the surface of the liquid.
lmao Keep digging, sunshine. Like I said, drop an ice cube into your glass of water and you will see the water level rise higher than it was. The volume of the ice cube will be exactly the volume of water that increases.

Most of the Arctic ice is floating on the sea. if all that floating Arctic ice - the majority of it - melted, there will be NO change in sea levels, as that meltwater added to the water displaces the water as much as it did when it was a solid.
I am not arguing that.

The Warmists have got it wrong when they say that melting sea ice causes sea levels to rise. Science shows otherwise.
I agree. And I said I agreed before so I cannot see why you are "singing to the choir" about that aspect.

Global Warming, I'm glad to say, is slowly collapsing.
I agree. As Geoffrey Chaucer once said, "All things must end." (or something like that). If the planet were cooling, the same thing applies, eventually the planet would warm again.

Freshwater has a density of 1.0 g/mL, while salt water has a density of 1.025 g/mL. Therefore, freshwater has a greater volume than an equivalent weight of salt water. When you melt sea ice that is displacing salt water, the result is the volume of the water increases.
I forgot about that aspect. Thanks.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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lmao Keep digging, sunshine. Like I said, drop an ice cube into your glass of water and you will see the water level rise higher than it was. The volume of the ice cube will be exactly the volume of water that increases.


I hope I don't have to repeat myself again.

When ice in water melts, it does not cause the level of that water to rise, because the water being displaced by the meltwater is exactly the same as the amount of water that was displaced when it was ice.

When the ice cubes in your drink melt, the level of your drink does not rise.

I can't put it any clearer than that.

Most of the Arctic is sea ice. Melting sea ice does NOT cause sea levels to rise because if all the Artic sea ice melted it will displace just as much surrounding sea water as it did when it was ice.

The theory that melting Arctic ice causes sea levels to rise, as the Warmists constantly bang on about, does not agree with the science. The Warmists are WRONG.

This experiment investigates the common belief that melting ice will cause water level to rise:

Will melting ice cause water level to rise? - YouTube

Here's the maths behind it:

Let ρ be the density of water and m be mass of ice

Before Melting
By Archimedes Principle
mass of water displaced = mass of ice = m
vol of ice submerged under water = vol of water displaced = m/ρ

After Melting
mass of melted ice = m
vol of melted ice = m/ρ

Hence, volume of ice submerged under water before melting is exactly equal to volume of water formed after melting. Therefore, since volume remains constant, the water level within the cup also remains constant.



You can even try it yourself courtesy of the BBC:

BBC - Science & Nature - Sea Life - Blue Planet Challenge

One of the most common misconceptions about polar seas is that if ice shelves or icebergs melt, the sea level will rise. This is actually not true - why?

1) Water expands when it freezes making it less dense than the water from which it freezes. In fact, its volume is a little over 9% greater (or density ~ 9% lower) than in the liquid state.
2) Therefore both ice shelves and icebergs float on the sea surface.
3) As they float, they displace the same volume of water that they contain.
4) So if they were to melt, the sea level would stay exactly the same.


Test it yourself - Expansion of water as it freezes
1. Half-fill a plastic bottle with water, screw the cap on tight and mark on the side where the water level comes up to.
2. Put it in the freezer overnight.
3. Check the bottle the next day to see how much more space the ice takes up than the water did!
This expansion is why your water pipes sometimes burst in the winter if they freeze!
Test it yourself - Melting ice doesn’t change water level
1. Put 3 ice-cubes into a glass or container of water and mark the level of the water on the side (you can do this with some sticky tape if you don’t wish to mark the glass with a pen).
2. Allow the ice-cubes to melt and see what happens to the level. It shouldn’t move a millimetre!
 
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Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Are you daft? The density of the water in the sea ice is not the same as the density of sea water. Fail.

Try the experiment yourself, except this time use salt water for the liquid phase of your experiment.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Nope. You're dead wrong. The piece you're missing is dissolved minerals, aka electrolytes.

The reason most people erroneously believe this is because they do not understand a key aspect of how Archimedes' principle works in this situation. If you melt sea ice, you don't get sea water. During the freezing process, brine rejection occurs and the resulting ice has a lower conductivity -or salinity if you prefer- than sea water. Freshwater is less dense than salt water due to obviously, the lack of dissolved minerals. Freshwater has a density of 1.0 g/mL, while salt water has a density of 1.025 g/mL. Therefore, freshwater has a greater volume than an equivalent weight of salt water. When you melt sea ice that is displacing salt water, the result is the volume of the water increases.

Deniers like yourself would do well to learn some more physics, but I doubt that will happen.

More scaremongering.

Even taking in such factors, the melting of sea ice STILL has a negligible effect on sea level rise.

Even a Warmist Scaremongering site has stated: "1.6% of current sea level rise (about 3.1 mm per year) is caused by loss of sea ice."


1.6%

So even if sea levels ARE rising - and they're not - then sea ice, i.e. most of the ice at the Arctic, is causing hardly any of it, even taking into account the difference between freshwater and seawater.

Does Melting Sea Ice Raise Sea Levels?

Ron House
October 12, 2011

Up until now I have unthinkingly assumed that melting sea ice doesn't change sea levels. The reason is a basic principle of physics: Archimedes' Principle, which says that a floating object displaces its own weight of liquid. The idea is that when the ice melts, it will exactly fill in the 'space' that the ice block made in the water, thus leaving the water level unchanged.

But there's a fly in the ointment: when sea ice freezes, it preferentially expels salt, in the process becoming purer than the sea water it is floating in. Pure water is less dense than salty water, so when the ice melts it will overflow the 'hole in the water' that the ice had occupied, and when it overflows, it raises the water level.

That's true, and that's a very interesting application of physics and a lesson to think precisely about the physics of any situation. In other words, as physics, it is fun and interesting.

But let's see how this is being used. At the alarmist site Skeptical Science, which purports to 'expose' the fallacies of skeptical views on global warming, they start out:
Sea level rise due to floating ice?

It is widely believed that melting of floating sea ice does not contribute to sea level rise. Is this really true?
And physorg.com starts out their article like this:
Melting of Floating Ice Will Raise Sea Level

When ice on land slides into the ocean, it displaces ocean water and causes sea level to rise. People believe that when this floating ice melts, water level doesn’t rise an additional amount because the freshwater ice displaces the same volume of water as it would contribute once it melts. Similarly, people also think that when ocean water freezes to form sea ice and then melts, the water is merely going through a change of state, so it won’t affect sea level. However, in a visit to NSIDC in May, Dr. Peter Noerdlinger, a professor at St. Mary’s University in Nova Scotia, Canada, suggested otherwise.
Scared yet? It would seem this is yet another hairy scary danger caused by CO2 to add to all the rest of the usual suspects. But read on. Buried in the text you will find some remarkable numbers. The former site quotes "1.6% of current sea level rise (about 3.1 mm per year) is caused by loss of sea ice." The other tells us "melt water from sea ice and floating ice shelves could add 2.6% more water to the ocean than the water displaced by the ice, or the equivalent of approximately 4 centimeters (1.57 inches) of sea-level rise."

So what is really going on here?Tracking down the scientific papers at the root of this business is at first confusing. One of them (Jenkins and Holland)1 gives a figure of 5.2 millimetres for the sum of Arctic and Antarctic sea ice. But Noerdlinger and Brower's paper3 gives a figure of 47 millimetres for the melting of the "total floating ice volume". What's the difference?

Well we can start by doing a quick sum of our own. The volume of the world's sea ice is about 75,000 km3. (See 2.) The density of ice is about 0.92 (of the density of fresh water), so this ice would melt into a volume of 69,000 km3. The total area of the oceans is 361,000,000 km2. If this ice were land ice, it would raise sea levels by 69,000 / 361,000,000, which equals about 19cm. Really? Even if it were not floating, if the entire melt volume added entirely to sea level rise, we are only talking about a bit over seven inches! But it is floating, so let's check how much it will raise sea level.

The density of sea water at the sea surface is 1027kg/m3.

So 1000kg of sea water occupies 1000/1027m3 = 0.9737m3.

69,000 km3 of melted ice (assuming all fresh water) has mass of 69,000 * 109 kg, which, as ice, displaces its own weight in sea water, which is 0.9737m^3 * 69000 * 109 m3 of sea water, which equals 67,185 * 109 m3.

But being fresh water, it will occupy 69,000 * 109 m3, The fresh water 'doesn't quite fit' in the salt water 'hole' by this much: (69,000 - 67,185) * 109 m3, or 1,815 * 109 m3. Once again, dividing this by the area of the oceans gives 1,815 / 361,000,000 = 5.03 millimetres.

So yes, the fuss really is about a mere 5mm.

But where does the 47 mm come from?

"Sea ice" is frozen sea water, frozen and melting yearly during the summer / winter heating and cooling cycle. But this is not the only floating ice. The Antarctic ice shelves are actually land ice that has been forced out onto the sea by the pressure of ice building up behind it. Ice shelves are therefore part of an approximately steady state process as snow (which was originally sea water that evaporated) falls in the interior and builds up the mass of interior land-based ice. But their total volume is about ten times that of sea ice, and if all that melted, that is where the 47mm comes from.

The annoying thing about all this

I don't know about you, but 47 millimetres doesn't exactly strike terror into my heart or freeze the marrow with fear of puppy dogs drowning as the oceans break their banks. And remember, the ice shelves cannot all melt within a few years. They are colossal blocks of continental ice, which would, in the most drastic scenarios, take decades or longer to melt. But even in this worst of all scenarios, the 47mm, or under two inches, is the once-only total melt figure. Once that has melted, nothing more can be contributed from floating ice.

In other words, the "rising seas from floating ice melt" is yet another "cry wolf" beat-up.

http://peacelegacy.org/articles/does-melting-sea-ice-raise-sea-levels
 
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Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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More scaremongering.

So, your head is so far in the sand, you won't even concede that salt water is more dense than freshwater. I guess you're showing us something that is even more dense than sea water...

Even taking in such factors, the melting of sea ice STILL has a negligible effect on sea level rise.

Negligible? Sure, the effect is small. I already named the most important factors. But it's not zero.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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So, your head is so far in the sand, you won't even concede that salt water is more dense than freshwater. I guess you're showing us something that is even more dense than sea water...

I have conceded that, as you well know.

But I've shown that, even taking into account the difference between saltwater and freshwater, melting of sea ice has no effect on sea level rises.


But it's not zero.


It's not zero, but it's as good as (1.6% of all total sea level rise by one estimate), if you aren't being pedantic about it, and melting sea certainly doesn't cause anywhere near the amount of sea level rise that the Warminst Scaremongerers like you would have us believe.


The biggest national rescue operation in 70 years is under way in Britain as the Met Office warns of a "multi-pronged" attack on Britain by the winter weather.

Another storm bringing severe gales and snowstorms is set to hit Britain tonight.

Power lines knocked over in western Wales have even set fire to a peat bog.

The biggest rescue mission since the Blitz: Flood-hit Britain is battered by 'multi-pronged' weather front with 80mph winds, snow, two inches of rain in just six hours... and now even FIRE


Bog in west Wales set ablaze after storm knocks over power lines, igniting the peat inside the mire

Met Office warns of 'multi-pronged attack' as the country faces another day of extreme weather conditions

Weather warnings cover large swathes of Britain with heavy rain, high winds and snow set to hit South and West

David Cameron says he is 'very sorry' for the damage to people's homes and promises to do 'whatever it takes'

Families book record number of half-term breaks in a bid to escape from the relentless gloom at home

188,000 people back Mail's petition - which you can sign here - for PM to use foreign aid cash to tackle floods

By Hugo Gye and Ben Spencer and Tom Kelly and Ray Massey
14 February 2014
Daily Mail

Britain faces a ‘multi-pronged attack’ of wind, rain and snow today – as emergency services mount their largest rescue operation since the Blitz.

Forecasters warned that 80mph gales will rip into the South coast, up to two inches of rain could fall in just six hours and high ground in the North will be hit by snow.

It came as the Government’s chief fire and rescue adviser said the crisis has prompted the biggest emergency response in 70 years.

Visiting Blackpool in Lancashire to view relief efforts, the Prime Minister told ITV1's Daybreak: 'People need to be reassured that we will do whatever it takes to help people during this very difficult time.'

He added: 'Of course I am very sorry for any way that people have suffered.

'What we have tried to do is stand up the emergency response arrangements as quickly as we could.

'Obviously, we are facing a very difficult time because we have got the wettest start to the year for 250 years and these are extraordinary weather events, but we are fighting on every front to help people.

'We have deployed the military, we have got thousands of sandbags being put around people's houses, over 300,000 people had their electricity reconnected last night.

'If you look at the state of our flood defences, over 1.3 million homes have been protected by the flood defences that are in place.

'We are making sure that today, before the next rise in the level of the Thames over the weekend, we do everything we can to protect more homes and protect more communities.'


Blaze: Large parts of Borth Bog on the west coast of Wales are on fire after high-voltage power lines collapsed overnight


Flames: A line of fire could be seen this morning after the power lines ignited the highly flammable peat bog


Smoke: The bog, also known as Cors Fochno, was set ablaze overnight as the extreme weather continue


Clear-up: David Cameron talks to a builder who is helping to repair a house which was damaged in Blackpool


Meeting: Mr Cameron talks to representatives of the police, fire service, military and power companies in Blackpool


Blizzards: A car is abandoned in the snow in County Durham after several weeks of severe weather across Britain


Freeze: The scene this morning showed how residents of northern England have seen their homes buried in snow


Stuck: Motorists found themselves stranded in deep snow on a road which runs from Cumbria to County Durham


Danger: Flood alerts and warnings are in place across much of Britain, with the main flashpoints along the Thames and Severn and on the Somerset Levels






Warnings: These maps show how heavy rain, high winds and snowfall are expected to affect wide swathes of the country








Gloomy: England and Wales face two days of rain and stormy weather before brighter conditions emerge on Sunday





Wednesday’s storm claimed the life of pensioner Roger Hayward, the tenth person to be killed by the extreme weather in the past two months. Mr Hayward, 71, was electrocuted by fallen power cables in Bremhill, near Chippenham, Wiltshire, as he tried to move a tree felled by the winds.

His family said: ‘We are all shocked and deeply saddened with the passing of our dearest dad, husband, granddad and friend to many.’

Last night, Met Office forecaster Steven Keates said: ‘After today’s brief respite here we go again. By the start of Friday morning, the next band of heavy rain will move towards the South-West and this is going to push northwards across much of the UK throughout Friday.It’s a multi-pronged attack.

‘As the rain trudges its way North, it’s going to encounter some quite cold air so then we get a snow risk.We’re looking at 5cm to 10cm above 300m and perhaps as much as 20cm above 400m.

‘Finally, with strong winds along the shore there will be some big waves again.’


Waterworld: Heavy rain is now forecast to fall over the next few days thanks to two storms currently heading across the Atlantic


A woman looks from the door of her flooded home as soldiers place sandbags on her driveway in Wraysbury, Berkshire


Troops helping out in Wraysbury after Old Father Thames burst his banks




Epic: Waves break over Porthcawl harbour in South Wales, as the region continues to be battered with high winds and heavy rain


Seahorses: Floodwater covers Pitchcroft Race Course in Worcester, Worcestershire




RAF spy plane Sentinel maps southern England floods

14 February 2014



The RAF has been using its most sophisticated spy plane - the Sentinel - to map the scale of the flooding across southern England for the first time.

The BBC's defence correspondent Jonathan Beale joined the flight over the Thames Valley, Severn river and Somerset Levels.

He spoke to RAF sergeant Chris Bradbury on board.

Watch the video here: BBC News - RAF spy plane Sentinel maps southern England floods
 
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Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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But I've shown that, even taking into account the difference between saltwater and freshwater, melting of sea ice has no effect on sea level rises.

1.6% is not 0%. Five millimeters is not zero millimeters. No effect means 0%, or 0 millimeters. Yes, it's small. No, it is not zero. Pedantic? I'm a scientist. We quantify things that can be quantified. And getting the physics wrong is not a small detail.

melting sea certainly doesn't cause anywhere near the amount of sea level rise that the Warminst Scaremongerers like you would have us believe.
What amount do warmist scaremongers like myself say sea level will rise by if all the sea ice melts? Links please.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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1.6% is not 0%.

1.6% of total sea level rise caused by sea ice is hardly anything, and certainly not the Biblical proportions that you Warmist Scaremongerers always try to have us believe.

Melting of sea ice hardly causes any rise in sea level at all.

And we don't have to worry about it anyway. Because sea levels aren't rising.
*********************

A woman has been killed after part of a building collapsed on a car in Holborn, central London last night, probably as a result of the stormy weather.

The incident happened on the street known as High Holborn, which contains the Cuban Embassy.

Woman dies and man taken to hospital after stormy weather causes building debris to crush a car in central London



The front of a building collapsed onto a car in Holborn on Friday night

One woman died and a man was left needing hospital treatment

Another occupant managed to escape from the car before the collapse

By Wills Robinson and Ted Thornhill
15 February 2014
Daily Mail


A woman has died and a man has been taken to hospital after a building fell on a car in Holborn, central London, the Metropolitan Police said today.

A spokesman said: 'There were two occupants in the car and a woman was pronounced dead at the scene. A man was pulled from the car and was taken to hospital, where he is in a stable situation at the moment.'

Paramedics and firefighters were also called to the scene and roads have been closed in the area, police said.


A woman has died after part of a building collapsed onto the car she was driving on High Holborn, in Holborn, central London last night


The 49-year-old female driver was pronounced dead at the scene following freak accident


A view of the top of the building from which large chunks of masonry fell on to a Skoda Octavia, killing a woman


The scene where large chunks of masonry fell from the building. The storm ripped the top of the building clean off


Photographs from ITV showed large chunks of masonry and debris strewn across the pavement.

The roof of the silver four-door car was badly crushed.

London Fire Brigade said the concrete fascia of the building collapsed on to the car, which was on Kingsway/High Holborn. Around 20 firefighters helped with the rescue, freeing the trapped pair from the car.

A spokesman said: 'Another woman travelling in the car managed to get out of the vehicle before the brigade arrived.

'Around 10 people were evacuated from nearby buildings as a precaution.'


The site of the accident in Holborn, London, in which one person died and one person was injured when parts of a building fell on to a car


London Fire Brigade said the concrete fascia of the building collapsed on to the car


The scene in Holborn, central London, after the building collapsed




In pictures: Princes William and Harry join flood relief effort

The Duke of Cambridge and his brother Prince Harry have joined colleagues from the armed forces as flood efforts continue in Berkshire, not far from the royal residence of Windsor Castle.

The Queen, the princes' grandmother, has also joined in the relief effort by providing feed and bedding from her stables at Windsor Castle to flood-hit Somerset farmers for their livestock.


The royals started work in flood-hit Datchet at 06:00 GMT during a private unannounced visit.


Television cameramen and photographers soon arrived once news spread.


The royal brothers, who were dressed in waterproofs and wellington boots, were seen forming part of a human chain unloading sandbags from an Army vehicle and putting them on to the back of a train.


When Prince Harry, who is still a serving officer with the Household Cavalry, was asked by reporters if he was enjoying helping out, he replied: "Not really, with you guys around."


A newspaper reporter said he was asked by Prince William: "Why don't you put your notebook down and give us a hand with the sandbags?" But when the journalist agreed to help, aides said he was not wearing the appropriate clothing.


The Queen, the princes' grandmother, has also joined in the relief effort by providing feed and bedding for livestock to flood-hit Somerset farmers.


Graham Leaver, clerk at Datchet Parish Council, said the princes "were very involved and wanting to know what was going on. They have been in Datchet and the area and I think it's gone down very well. That is my assessment."


The royal pair braved further rain during the morning. The Environment Agency said it has recorded parts of the Thames at their highest levels for 60 years.

BBC News - In pictures: Princes William and Harry join flood relief effort
 
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Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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According to CTV news the last time the Thames overflowed was 1776

Make that 2006.

Wartorn Britain of 1947 was struck by a major Thames flooding.

There were major Thames floods in 1968, 1993, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006. And they are only the ones from 1947.

Contrary to Warmist belief, Thames floods aren't unusual.

1947 thames flooding









 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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1.6% of total sea level rise caused by sea ice is hardly anything, and certainly not the Biblical proportions that you Warmist Scaremongerers always try to have us believe.

Again, when did anyone say sea ice would cause biblical proportions of sea level rise? Links please.

And we don't have to worry about it anyway. Because sea levels aren't rising.

:roll:

 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
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1.6% of total sea level rise caused by sea ice is hardly anything, and certainly not the Biblical proportions that you Warmist Scaremongerers always try to have us believe.

Melting of sea ice hardly causes any rise in sea level at all.

And we don't have to worry about it anyway. Because sea levels aren't rising.
*********************

A woman has been killed after part of a building collapsed on a car in Holborn, central London last night, probably as a result of the stormy weather.

The incident happened on the street known as High Holborn, which contains the Cuban Embassy.

Woman dies and man taken to hospital after stormy weather causes building debris to crush a car in central London



The front of a building collapsed onto a car in Holborn on Friday night

One woman died and a man was left needing hospital treatment

Another occupant managed to escape from the car before the collapse

By Wills Robinson and Ted Thornhill
15 February 2014
Daily Mail


A woman has died and a man has been taken to hospital after a building fell on a car in Holborn, central London, the Metropolitan Police said today.

A spokesman said: 'There were two occupants in the car and a woman was pronounced dead at the scene. A man was pulled from the car and was taken to hospital, where he is in a stable situation at the moment.'

Paramedics and firefighters were also called to the scene and roads have been closed in the area, police said.


A woman has died after part of a building collapsed onto the car she was driving on High Holborn, in Holborn, central London last night


The 49-year-old female driver was pronounced dead at the scene following freak accident


A view of the top of the building from which large chunks of masonry fell on to a Skoda Octavia, killing a woman


The scene where large chunks of masonry fell from the building. The storm ripped the top of the building clean off


Photographs from ITV showed large chunks of masonry and debris strewn across the pavement.

The roof of the silver four-door car was badly crushed.

London Fire Brigade said the concrete fascia of the building collapsed on to the car, which was on Kingsway/High Holborn. Around 20 firefighters helped with the rescue, freeing the trapped pair from the car.

A spokesman said: 'Another woman travelling in the car managed to get out of the vehicle before the brigade arrived.

'Around 10 people were evacuated from nearby buildings as a precaution.'


The site of the accident in Holborn, London, in which one person died and one person was injured when parts of a building fell on to a car


London Fire Brigade said the concrete fascia of the building collapsed on to the car


The scene in Holborn, central London, after the building collapsed




In pictures: Princes William and Harry join flood relief effort

The Duke of Cambridge and his brother Prince Harry have joined colleagues from the armed forces as flood efforts continue in Berkshire, not far from the royal residence of Windsor Castle.

The Queen, the princes' grandmother, has also joined in the relief effort by providing feed and bedding from her stables at Windsor Castle to flood-hit Somerset farmers for their livestock.


The royals started work in flood-hit Datchet at 06:00 GMT during a private unannounced visit.


Television cameramen and photographers soon arrived once news spread.


The royal brothers, who were dressed in waterproofs and wellington boots, were seen forming part of a human chain unloading sandbags from an Army vehicle and putting them on to the back of a train.


When Prince Harry, who is still a serving officer with the Household Cavalry, was asked by reporters if he was enjoying helping out, he replied: "Not really, with you guys around."


A newspaper reporter said he was asked by Prince William: "Why don't you put your notebook down and give us a hand with the sandbags?" But when the journalist agreed to help, aides said he was not wearing the appropriate clothing.


The Queen, the princes' grandmother, has also joined in the relief effort by providing feed and bedding for livestock to flood-hit Somerset farmers.


Graham Leaver, clerk at Datchet Parish Council, said the princes "were very involved and wanting to know what was going on. They have been in Datchet and the area and I think it's gone down very well. That is my assessment."


The royal pair braved further rain during the morning. The Environment Agency said it has recorded parts of the Thames at their highest levels for 60 years.

BBC News - In pictures: Princes William and Harry join flood relief effort








Holy Crap !


Could you possibly post more pictures of the storm?


I guess I'm old school and still recall the early days of trying not to use up all of the 'sites bandwidth'.........
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
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Holy Crap !


Could you possibly post more pictures of the storm?


I guess I'm old school and still recall the early days of trying not to use up all of the 'sites bandwidth'.........

And in your quoted post, you retained all the pictures, which would have been just as bad for the bandwidth, wouldn't it?;)

Just sayin'. LOL!
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,658
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Again, when did anyone say sea ice would cause biblical proportions of sea level rise? Links please.

Warmists say it all the time. Warmists are contantly telling us that the melting of Arctic ice will cause sea levels to rise and we will be deluged by floodwater.

Just admit that you and your fellow Warmists have now been proven to be wrong and that, according to the Archimedes principle, melting sea ice causes almost NO sea level rises at all. Then I want you to admit that there is no Global Warming or "climate change". And finally, after that, I want you to apologise, on behalf of all the Warmists on here and around the world, for spreading needless Warmist Alarmist propaganda, causing millions of people around the world to struggle to pay their energy bills because of the amount of "green" taxes placed on them.

According to CTV news the last time the Thames overflowed was 1776 which would explain why the French came to the aid of the American rebels instead of the Brits.

The researchers at CTV definitely need to be sacked:

The great 1928 flood of London

By Jon Kelly
BBC News Magazine
16 February 2014


Climate change?!?!

In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. How did the city cope and what has changed?

It was after midnight when the river burst its banks. Most Londoners slept as the floodwaters gushed into some of the nation's grandest buildings and subsumed many of the city's narrowest slum streets under 4ft of water.

The Houses of Parliament, the Tate Gallery and the Tower of London were all swamped. So too, tragically, were many of the crowded basement dwellings into which the city's poorest families were crammed. Some 14 souls drowned and thousands were left homeless.

The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city, then the biggest in the world, from tidal surges.

A modern observer would not find the aftermath entirely unfamiliar, however. As the waters were drained from Tube lines and debris cleared from the Embankment, there were political rows about dredging and whether local or central government should take responsibility.


The 1928 flood saw 14 people killed

The river poured over embankments at Southwark, Lambeth, Temple Pier and the Houses of Parliament, where Old Palace Yard and Westminster Hall were quickly flooded.

"It came like a waterfall over the parapet and into the space at the foot of Big Ben," wrote the Times' correspondent.

The moat at the Tower of London was filled for the first time in 80 years. The Blackwall and Rotherhithe tunnels were under water.

There was extensive flooding around Victoria Embankment Gardens, Charing Cross Station and King's College.


Page Street, Westminster

"There were miniature waterfalls at Cleopatra's Needle and the Royal Air Force Memorial, and the training ship President floated at street level," reported the Manchester Guardian.

According to some reports, the first section of the riverbank to give way was at Millbank by the Tate. Incredibly, given its proximity to the Thames, many of the gallery's works were stored in the lower ground floor. Some 18 were damaged beyond repair, 226 oil paintings were badly damaged and a further 67 were slightly damaged.

However, the most serious devastation was in the working class areas that backed on to the river.

What the Times described as the "many little narrow streets, courts and alleys, reminiscent of Shakespeare and his times" between Southwark and Blackfriars bridges were flooded, as was the Bankside area. Police went door-to-door urging residents to leave.

Many of them were taken away on carts. "The water was rising so quickly that many who were roused from their sleep simply threw a blanket round their shoulders and made their escape in their night attire," the Times said.

Worst affected were the slums on the Westminster side of Lambeth Bridge, where 10 of the 14 victims lost their lives.



"The people who died were poor people living in crowded basements," says Anna Carlsson-Hyslop of the University of Manchester's Sustainable Consumption Institute. They had little time to escape.

At one inquest, a man named Alfred Harding identified the bodies of his four daughters - Florence Emily, 18, Lillian Maude, 16, Rosina, six, and Doris Irene, two.

A separate hearing heard how two domestic servants, Evelyn Hyde, 20, and Annie Masters Moreton, 22, drowned in similar circumstances in a room they shared in Hammersmith. The coroner, Mr HR Oswald, said they had been "caught like animals in a trap drowned before they realised their position".


Surveying the damage

Flooding occurred as far west as Putney and Richmond. The high waters were caused by a depression in the North Sea which sent a storm surge up the tidal river. It was the highest levels the Thames had witnessed for 50 years.

The river had subsided by the end of the day. However, according to Alex Werner, head of history collections at the Museum of London, "It took maybe a month to pump out all the water."

What made the relief effort harder was that London had already suffered extensive flooding in the days leading up to 7 January. Heavy snow over the Christmas period had melted, swelling inland rivers and leaving much of east London under several feet of water.


A train on flooded tracks at Stratford, east London, the area of the capital where the Olympics would be held 84 years later

The tidal flood along the Thames was a different order of magnitude, however.

The river's flood defences were designed to cope with a tide of 18ft above the Ordnance Datum. This height had been chosen to exceed the previous record of 17ft 6in, which was reached in 1881. The 1928 surge saw this exceeded by 11in.

In the wake of the flood, the embankments were raised. However, it would take the North Sea flood of 1953 to persuade the authorities to look into constructing the Thames Barrier.


Pavement damage along the Thames Embankment

Indeed, Carlsson-Hyslop says much of the political reaction consisted of a series of wrangles over who should pay for flood defence and research into storm surges. In 2014 it has seen an echo in ministers' confrontations with councils and the Environment Agency.

There were other similarities, too. "In late 1927 and into 1928 there were constant arguments about should we dredge or not," says Carlsson-Hyslop.

Having studied floods throughout history, she says the rhetoric from political leaders in the wake of such events is remarkably uniform.

"It's very common for politicians to argue that floods are natural and rare and an act of God," she adds.

The 1928 flood was certainly a once-in-a-lifetime event.


The breached embankment at Westminster

But flooding in the capital was far from unknown, says Werner. Samuel Pepys' diaries describe flooding in Whitehall.

The difference in 1928 was that the Embankments, previously uninhabited marshland, had been reclaimed during the Victorian era and now contained housing and commercial premises where once there was nothing.

"Historically, people thought this was part of what happens every so often but you live through it," says Werner.

"Now we don't expect it. We think we have sorted the problem. We have built the Embankment up, we forget the force of nature. So these sorts of moments are quite disturbing to people."

That was true in 1928, and equally so 86 years on.


BBC News - The great 1928 flood of London
 
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Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Warmists say it all the time.

Prove it. I don't care about your assertions because I've already seen that if I take you at your word, well you can't even get the physics right.

Just admit that you and your fellow Warmists have now been proven to be wrong and that, according to the Archimedes principle, melting sea ice causes almost NO sea level rises at all.

Oh my you are delusional. I had to explain to you how Archimedes principle works in this case. You've moved goal posts now that you were shown to be wrong. Admit what? I said from the start the two major drivers are melting glaciers and thermal expansion. I only corrected your ignorance that sea ice would not change sea levels. If you want a full accounting of where the sea level rise is coming from, then you need to quantify all factors, even the small ones.

If you can't understand that then you are an idiot.

Now, back to how any of this relates to the weather...