Tell your MP to get back to work on Jan 25th

[countryboy]

I'm cool and ok.. All is fine. :smile:

But when you put a comment such as

Not to be a spoilsport, but part of an MP's job is

I thought I would ask the question..

I don't think by far you are inadequate.. I just think sometimes we overlook facts..

And I don't think my questions were unfair. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

Hey Francis, no worries. Your questions don't ever seem to be unfair, and besides, I don't get my "feathers ruffled" that easily! :lol:

I should have explained myself better...the question of yours that was on my mind was, "Are you trying to tell us there is no time for MPs to work unless the house is prorogued ?" And the answer is, of course not.

I was simply trying to lend a bit of perspective to the "off with their heads" approach that seemed to be gathering some steam - that's where the phrase "hate to be a spoilsport" came from.

Thanks again Francis...

 

[darkbeaver]

Give Mr Harper a chance. He's made this country what it is today. He is an sterling example of passionate fatherhood of a young nation looking for space to expand in the challenging turbulent times and economic security environment, which is not of his choosing but which he will defend to our last drop of hydrodynamic fluid. Children will swell their little chests with pride knowing that they lived in the epoch of the Harper Golden Age when secure economically sound geneticly modified milk and honey ran in the yellow bricked roads and pigs flew over the rainbows in our nations kapital.

Get back to work Harper. It's getting cold.

 

[Francis2004]

How can it be undemocratic to prorogue the house??? If that were so, you would think it would not be allowed at all.

Our MP has a huge constituency to cover with bad roads this time of year. Though she is able to get time off when parliament sits, this will give her an opportunity to get out to the hundreds of communities she may not otherwise be able to visit.

I will not be asking her to go back to parliament.

It's not undemocratic.

However to the electorate it becomes an issue of why you used it and how often you abuse the power Mowich..

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/746441--vent-outrage-at-your-local-mp

Everyone approving of this action and backing the government points to Chretien as using prorogation 4 times.. Problem is Chretien was in power 10 years and used it 4 times..

Harper has been in power 4 years and has already used it 3 times.. At his current rate he would use prorogation Approximately 7 to 8 times in 10 years.. I am estimating of course but now that talk is underway to set prorogation yearly that is not inconceivable..

CTV News | Proroguing Parliament is 'routine,' Tories say

Even scarier would be the setting of prorogation yearly. It would become an issue as major legislation could be killed if the House had not yet passed all the steps. It is reckless to set time limits on a House that can adjourn for any periods of time and then have to restart anew every time.. Our legislation could boggle down to nothing getting done..

Both Harper and Chretien used ( or are using ) it to hide from the people..

 

[coldstream]

Bunch of welfare bums.. incompetent to boot.

 

[countryboy]

Give Mr Harper a chance. He's made this country what it is today. He is an sterling example of passionate fatherhood of a young nation looking for space to expand in the challenging turbulent times and economic security environment, which is not of his choosing but which he will defend to our last drop of hydrodynamic fluid. Children will swell their little chests with pride knowing that they lived in the epoch of the Harper Golden Age when secure economically sound geneticly modified milk and honey ran in the yellow bricked roads and pigs flew over the rainbows in our nations kapital.

Get back to work Harper. It's getting cold.

Aw shoot, DB...I liked it until you get to the part of the genetically modified milk! Until then, I thought you were doin' pretty good! ;-)

 

[darkbeaver]

Aw shoot, DB...I liked it until you get to the part of the genetically modified milk! Until then, I thought you were doin' pretty good! ;-)

Hydrodynamic fluid didn't stop you?:smile:

 

[AnnaG]

If Harper is so smart how come he can't win a majority? Clearly most Canadians would not vote for the man or his party.

They are all baffoons in Ottawa with the exception of a few.

And there are few of those few who apply their wisdom for the benefit of the people of Canada.

 

[Outta here]

As far as I can see, this comes down more to defining appropriate reasons for proroguing - and granted, that's pretty subjective. I understand there are perfectly legitimate reasons to take that route, and it has been done with some regularity throughout the years, but IMO when a government has to shut down business because they aren’t up to the task of governing and need to ‘recalibrate’ their agenda… well I’m not ok with that.

I will concede that it’s preferable to have a government able and willing to admit when what they’re doing isn’t working, but in MY perfect little world, we’d figure out how to elect a government that is up to the challenge of running a country without making it up as they go. This isn't Harper's first time abusing the use of this procedure (imo),and I admit it worries me that he’s lowering the bar for what is considered a ‘legitimate’ use of this strategy.

The link I posted to the facebook group isn’t even a petition really; the decision is a done deal. I just think if we want our politicians to act in our best interests instead of their own, we need to speak up. For me, joining this group and becoming part of an email campaign to voice my opinion is a place for me to begin to acknowledge and change my silent compliance with the direction our politicians are taking us.

Do I think this single action will make a huge difference? Probably not, but at the very least I hope to annoy the hell out of someone as much as I’m annoyed right now.

 

[Francis2004]

As far as I can see, this comes down more to defining appropriate reasons for proroguing - and granted, that's pretty subjective. I understand there are perfectly legitimate reasons to take that route, and it has been done with some regularity throughout the years, but IMO when a government has to shut down business because they aren’t up to the task of governing and need to ‘recalibrate’ their agenda… well I’m not ok with that.

I will concede that it’s preferable to have a government able and willing to admit when what they’re doing isn’t working, but in MY perfect little world, we’d figure out how to elect a government that is up to the challenge of running a country without making it up as they go. This isn't Harper's first time abusing the use of this procedure (imo),and I admit it worries me that he’s lowering the bar for what is considered a ‘legitimate’ use of this strategy.

The link I posted to the facebook group isn’t even a petition really; the decision is a done deal. I just think if we want our politicians to act in our best interests instead of their own, we need to speak up. For me, joining this group and becoming part of an email campaign to voice my opinion is a place for me to begin to acknowledge and change my silent compliance with the direction our politicians are taking us.

Do I think this single action will make a huge difference? Probably not, but at the very least I hope to annoy the hell out of someone as much as I’m annoyed right now.

I agree Zan.. I have been part of the Facebook "Group" from the early days.. Not because it's an Anti Harper, but rather for it's stand to stop abusing Parliamentary procedures to avoid the electorate..

Personally I think all side rejoice in this prorogation as it gives them ammunition and time to do mud slinging.. I would much rather they be in the House of Commons doing their job..

 

[Outta here]

a post from the site - a woman wrote to her MP - her letter and the response she received:

Subject: Oh Canada

Dear Sir, Please note that I am deeply concerned and saddened about the choice Stephan Harper has made. The action of the government today shows a disregard for the Canadian people that is truly troubling. Could you please make a public statement to explain to those in your riding how you justify such use of our parliamentary system. And please clarify for those in your riding, will you be spending this time off in your riding with your constituents or will you, like others, take advantage of this time to attend the Olympic? It is with great disappointment today that I realized that the persons that we as voters faithfully elect to represent us could loose all ethics and morals just to play politics with the lives of their neighbors. This situation is very disturbing to say the least!

Response received Jan 4, 2010

Dear Ms. S. : I thank you for your letter. I wish you a Happy New Year and the best for 2010. Prime Minister Harper continues to show the exceptional leadership that he has so capably demonstrated in the past. In a few short years he has restored Canada's pride both domestically and internationally. No longer do we have to be embarrassed to call ourselves Canadians as was the case so often under the previous Liberal government. From the beginning our government has been clear as to its goals and objectives. We have campaigned on very specific issues and then carried them out. Prorogation allows us to once again come before Parliament to lay out our direction for the country for the next year or so. This will allow us to build on the tremendous accomplishments of the past year. Taxes are lower, the economy is stable and you are keeping more money in your own pocket because of the leadership and vision of Stephen Harper. As for the Olympics, this is just one more event that will raise Canada's international profile. Although I would love to be there with so many other Canadians, I will not be attending. I will be working in my riding and in Ottawa and look forward to addressing the issues that are important to the people of Cypress Hills-Grasslands. Once again, thank you for taking the time to express your concerns.
Sincerely, David Anderson, MPCypress Hills-Grasslands

8O :sad3:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

"In a few short years he has restored Canada's pride both domestically and internationally. No longer do we have to be embarrassed to call ourselves Canadians as was the case so often under the previous Liberal government." What planet is this guy on? We pretty much stunk the place out in Copenhagen, and we're not looking good on the Afghan detainee file. We're not scoring many points internationally, except possibly with the U.S. Which is probably the point.

"We have campaigned on very specific issues and then carried them out. " Ah yes, like fixed election dates, open government, senate reform, killing the long gun registry...

"Prorogation allows us to once again come before Parliament to lay out our direction for the country for the next year or so." He seems to have missed the point that prorogation kills off a good part of what they laid out the last time they came before Parliament. He's right to a degree, prorogation is normally how a session ends, but Harper twice in 2009 seriously violated custom and precedent by proroguing Parliament when so much of the agenda for the session was unfinished. Them's the hazards I suppose, when so much of our constitutional practice is based on custom and precedent rather than written law. You get a guy in charge who doesn't respect Parliament, is savagely and relentlessly partisan, and scorns those who disagree with him, that's a prescription for abuse.

 

[Colpy]

Okay guys, one last time....prorogation at this time (IMHO)is neither improper nor even questionable.....the idea that prorogation allows Harper to "avoid the electorate" is simply ridiculous.......in March, the opposition will be offered a golden opportunity to go directly to the electorate........if you have a problem with this gov't I suggest you call up your MP (if he is NDP, BQ, or LIberal) and insist he vote down the new budget.....if your MP is Conservative, please feel free to join the party of your choice and work towards the destruction of the current gov't of Canada....in short QUIT WHINING and DO something.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Okay guys, one last time....prorogation at this time (IMHO)is neither improper nor even questionable.....the idea that prorogation allows Harper to "avoid the electorate" is simply ridiculous.......in March, the opposition will be offered a golden opportunity to go directly to the electorate........if you have a problem with this gov't I suggest you call up your MP (if he is NDP, BQ, or LIberal) and insist he vote down the new budget.....if your MP is Conservative, please feel free to join the party of your choice and work towards the destruction of the current gov't of Canada....in short QUIT WHINING and DO something.

IMHO? Somehow I don't perceive you as someone having humble opinions... ;-) You're right to a degree, IMO (I don't have humble opinions either :smile, prorogation is a perfectly normal part of the cycle of Parliament's business, what's unusual--and contrary to custom and precedent-- is invoking it when there's so much unfinished business on the agenda. Harper's first use of it in 2009 was to avoid almost certain defeat on a confidence motion, claiming Parliament was dysfunctional when it wasn't even sitting, so it's not clear how he could have known that. The second time appears to have been to cut off discussion of the Afghan detainee issue and make sure Parliament is not sitting during the winter Olympics, so politics won't detract from that. The second motive makes sense, the first one doesn't, and it seems worth noting that the work of the committee investigating the Afghan detainee issue has been rendered dysfunctional by Conservative MPs boycotting its meetings. Parliament can go into recess any time without being prorogued and killing off most outstanding business. I was prepared to give Harper the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of his tenure, though I'm not and have never been a Conservative supporter, but no more. He's proven to me that he has the instincts of an autocrat and a tyrant. I do not trust him anymore. I think he's a fascist.

 

[damngrumpy]

First its the Prime Ministers privilege to do what he did. Harper also knew it would
cause a great fuss that is what he wanted. Harper despite all the words to the contrary. wants the opposition to throw him out so he can go to the polls and blame
the opposition. If they parties are smart they will play politics with the budget and
then let them go ahead. The recession is not over by a long shot. I believe the second wave of financial difficulties is coming south of the boarder and that will have an impact. First the Americans won't be able to afford to buy, and secondly our
dollar will reach par, and that will kill a lot of our export market.
The opposition should use the time to find the real weak spots in the governments
program, and prepare the questions on the Afghan prisoners. There is lots of ammo
to beat up the Harper Government, it has to be coordinated. Bring down the Tories
once the time is right. For those who don't get it, Parliament is about passing laws
and its also theatre, its part of democracy and always will be. Right after the Olympics the Political games will begin.

 

[JLM]

Liberals to return to work on Jan. 25, despite shutdown

Good. I hope the other parties do too.

If anyone's interested, there's a facebook group that's already over 50,000 strong:

"For those fed up with Harper's undemocratic behavior, tell your MP to get back to work on January 25th."

There's info there on how to contact your MP and the GG to and request that they show up to do the job they're paid to do in spite of Harper's request to prorogue, and to express your disapproval as a Canadian citizen of this action.

There's info there as well on how to contact your MP and the GG to and request that they show up to do the job they're paid to do in spite of Harper's request to prorogue, and to express your disapproval as a Canadian citizen of this action.

:canada:

I think this is one of those situations where you want to be really careful what you wish for. I think they may as well be working in the ridings while the Olympics are on anyway as the Olympics will inundate the news anyway, so any scandals that come out of Ottawa would be swept under the carpet. How many thousands of dollars a day does it take to run Ottawa? I guessing (just ballpark - no figures to prove anything) that we'd be saving close to a $million a day if they just stayed home and return after the Olympics when a closer eye can be kept on them.

 

[Francis2004]

I think this is one of those situations where you want to be really careful what you wish for. I think they may as well be working in the ridings while the Olympics are on anyway as the Olympics will inundate the news anyway, so any scandals that come out of Ottawa would be swept under the carpet. How many thousands of dollars a day does it take to run Ottawa? I guessing (just ballpark - no figures to prove anything) that we'd be saving close to a $million a day if they just stayed home and return after the Olympics when a closer eye can be kept on them.

JLM, not one penny will be saved by this action.. whether they are in Ottawa or at home in their ridings MPs spend and cost us money all the same. As well Parliament Buildings must operate as if Government was in house at all times..

How do you figure they will save us money in any way ?

 

[damngrumpy]

No point in contacting your MP they could care less. The positions of the parties are
already carved in stone. Most meet in Florida before the House opens its like the
awards show season. The politicians of all stripes meet informally and make the deals required to sustain the running of the house, the political blood sport arena.

 

[Nuggler]

Point is; they work for us, and they are supposed to be at work to work.

Here's a neat little blog from Rick Mercer (I'm not a fan), and he has some good points. Even neocon apologists cans surely see the message: or not.:angry3:

RickMercer

 

[Nuggler]

IMHO? Somehow I don't perceive you as someone having humble opinions... ;-) You're right to a degree, IMO (I don't have humble opinions either :smile, prorogation is a perfectly normal part of the cycle of Parliament's business, what's unusual--and contrary to custom and precedent-- is invoking it when there's so much unfinished business on the agenda. Harper's first use of it in 2009 was to avoid almost certain defeat on a confidence motion, claiming Parliament was dysfunctional when it wasn't even sitting, so it's not clear how he could have known that. The second time appears to have been to cut off discussion of the Afghan detainee issue and make sure Parliament is not sitting during the winter Olympics, so politics won't detract from that. The second motive makes sense, the first one doesn't, and it seems worth noting that the work of the committee investigating the Afghan detainee issue has been rendered dysfunctional by Conservative MPs boycotting its meetings. Parliament can go into recess any time without being prorogued and killing off most outstanding business. I was prepared to give Harper the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of his tenure, though I'm not and have never been a Conservative supporter, but no more. He's proven to me that he has the instincts of an autocrat and a tyrant. I do not trust him anymore. I think he's a fascist.

_________________________
""" I was prepared to give Harper the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of his tenure, though I'm not and have never been a Conservative supporter, but no more. He's proven to me that he has the instincts of an autocrat and a tyrant. I do not trust him anymore. I think he's a fascist.[/quote]8O

Welcome to the club. I especially like the "autocrat and tyrant" part. My gut feelings exactly from way back in the days of the Ont. PROVINCIAL cons, and from the time I learned Harper had been president of the "Cdn. Taxpayers Fed." or whatever.

I never did trust the man, and truly believe he would rule as a dictator given the opportunity. Looks like he's got the opportunity. If the Libs had a decent leader, Harper's govt. should and would be toppled very soon. But, who wants more of the same from different people??

go figure.

 

[JLM]

JLM, not one penny will be saved by this action.. whether they are in Ottawa or at home in their ridings MPs spend and cost us money all the same. As well Parliament Buildings must operate as if Government was in house at all times..

How do you figure they will save us money in any way ?

Wish all the questions directed to me were this easy. There's about 308 of them and while they are on the road they are on a per diem allowance (which I have no idea how much it is) but it's probably close to $100 a day each. How many aides (like chauffers, barbers, etc.) while in Ottawa? I still contend there is extra money being spent while they are in Ottawa. I would guess at the very minimum $50,000 a day Tht alone would house a couple of thousand homeless people.