Stephen Hawking warns over making contact with aliens

darkbeaver

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Astronomical solution means you try to explain life in astronomical terms, how it migrated to earth from other planers or asteroids.

Biological solution means you try to explain life in biological terms, how it evolved from protein molecules, with the action of thunder, electricity etc. Biological explanation (when we find it) will tell us how life evolved. Astronimical explnanation merely pushes the origin of life back into the past,

In my opinion, which I share with the legions of like minded, electricity is life, the rest is meat. The water of this world is made here by electricity deep in the earth. A great deal of time and money is spent trying to convince people that water is imported to the earth from space on relatively tiny chunks of rock when all the constituants of water and the power to combine them are readily available on the planet. The ultimate efficiency of nature can never be plumbed by man, but it's fun trying. The evolution/creation of life is not an event confined to the past it never stops happening. Recently I read about bacteria deep in the earth which lives in solid rock. I thought that to be pretty fundamental. Now that the big bang is disproved we can forget about the beginning and end of time and of life. Free rant, no parking no pets.:smile:
 

#juan

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In my opinion, which I share with the legions of like minded, The evolution/creation of life is not an event confined to the past it never stops happening. Recently I read about bacteria deep in the earth which lives in solid rock. I thought that to be pretty fundamental. Now that the big bang is disproved we can forget about the beginning and end of time and of life. Free rant, no parking no pets.:smile:

Hardly legions DB.

If someone checks the DNA of those bacteria they will find that they are related to every other creature on Earth.

Introduction

Hi Everyone,
Like most people I grew up with science founded on 'particles', and cosmology founded on the 'big bang' theory. At the time I just accepted it as true with little thought. Now, at the age of 50 and having spent the last 20 years reading on physics, philosophy and metaphysics I am completely convinced that both the 'particle' and the 'big bang' are incorrect. (In fact I would now say that they are extremely naive conceptions and I find it hard to believe that I used to accept them as true!)
Below you will find a list of some of the central problems of the Big Bang Theory of Cosmology. Most importantly, it is easy to show how these problems can be simply solved with the most simple explanation of physical reality - the Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) in Space.
This then deduces the most simple Cosmology: How our Finite Spherical Observable Universe exists within Infinite Eternal Space.
Geoff Haselhurst
(February, 2010)
Problems of the Big Bang Theory

1. Redshift with Distance due to Doppler Effects of Receding Motion

In the Big Bang theory it is not the receding motion of matter, but expanding space that is used to explain the redshift with distance. Thus they argue that the wavelength of light is longer due to 'stretching' space. The problems;
1.1 This is not a Doppler effect. A Doppler effect is for motion of matter in space, not for the expansion of space itself. Thus the Big Bang theory is not founded on the Doppler effect but a theoretical concept of expanding space.
1.2 This then assumes that space exists (to be able to expand), yet in other areas of physics they claim there is no absolute space. e.g. The electromagnetic wave is claimed to not require a physical medium. This was necessary to accommodate Einstein's special relativity where there was no absolute reference frame for motion (space), instead all motion is relative to other matter.
1.3 This also assumes that light is a wave, yet in other areas of physics light is claimed to be a 'photon particle' which then contradicts the idea of light waves being stretched (longer wavelength) due to expanding space.
The central point - the big bang theory is based on purely theoretical foundations, and they use different concepts to explain different things, when the concepts they use are contradictory of one another.
In WSM cosmology the redshift with distance is deduced due to decreasing wave interactions with distance. Thus there is no need to use the 'pseudo Doppler effect' as they currently do.
2. The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR)

The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) is sensibly explained due to radiation from cold matter in interstellar space. Since we only measure one source of CMBR this means that there cannot have been a 'Big Bang' otherwise we would observe two sources of cosmic background radiation.
The expression "the temperature of space" is the title of chapter 13 of Sir Arthur Eddington’s famous 1926 work, Eddington calculated the minimum temperature any body in space would cool to, given that it is immersed in the radiation of distant starlight. With no adjustable parameters, he obtained 3°K (later refined to 2.8°K ), essentially the same as the observed, so-called 'background' temperature. A similar calculation, although with less certain accuracy, applies to the limiting temperature of intergalactic space because of the radiation of galaxy light. So the intergalactic matter is like a 'fog' and would therefore provide a simpler explanation for the microwave radiation, including its blackbody-shaped spectrum. (Van Flandern)
3. The Big Bang and the Formation of Elements

... in 1957, after years of steady work - aided by advances in nuclear physics and stellar observations - Margaret and Gregory Burbridge, William Fowler and Hoyle published a comprehensive and detailed theory showing how stellar systems could produce all the known elements in proportions very close to those observed to exist. In addition, the theory accounted for the growing evidence that the elementary composition varies from star to star, something that would not be possible if the elements were produced by the Big Bang. The new theory was rapidly accepted as substantially correct.
... just as Lemaitre's Big Bang failed when cosmic rays were shown to be produced in the present-day universe rather than the distant past, so Gamow's failed when the chemical elements were shown to be produced by present-day stars. (Eric Lerner)
4. Superclusters and Voids are Older than the Big Bang Universe

Tully has shown that Superclusters are a few hundred million light-years across. Given galaxies generally move at less than a thousand kilometers per second, thus the universe cannot have begun twenty billion years ago.
Likewise, recently discovered large-scale voids would require around 70 billion years to form, five times as long as the age of the universe in the Big Bang theory.
5. The Universe is Ordered thus Infinite

In a finite universe created by the Big Bang the second law of thermodynamics would cause the universe to tend towards entropy and disorder. The fact is that this is not observed, the universe is highly ordered.
As Paul Davies, another religious cosmologist, writes: No natural agency, intelligent or otherwise, can delay forever the end of the universe. Only a supernatural God could try to wind it up again.
The WSM cosmology solves this problem by showing how our observable universe is just a finite spherical region of infinite eternal space. And the second law of thermodynamics does not apply to infinite space.
6. Singularities / Infinite Energy Densities are Mathematical Concepts Only

The oldest and perhaps best known problem of Big Bang Theory is that of the singularity. At the first instant of the Big Bang universe, in which its density and temperature were infinitely high, is what is known to mathematicians as a singularity. That situation is considered to be a breakdown of theory. That is, it cannot be assumed that the laws of physics as we know them can apply to that event, thus presenting serious questions about it.
In addition, the postulated creation of the entire mass and energy of the universe out of nothing in the first instant of time, seems to represent an extreme violation of the law of conservation of mass/energy.
According to prevailing theory, before that instant, space and time did not exist. Although to some, who confuse their religious ideas with science, this is seen as a reasonable interpretation of their religious beliefs, to others the beginning of space and time might represent a significant problem. (Bill Mitchell)
7. Inflation is an Ad Hoc Solution to a Theory that Contradicts Observation

Inflation theory, that was invented for the purpose, is said to provide simple solutions to some of the problems of pre-inflation Big Bang Theory. Inflation theorists have alleged that the inflationary expansion of the early Big Bang universe, involving speeds orders of magnitude greater than that of light, did not involve the travel of mass or energy, and thus did not violate the theory of relativity in solving the singularity problem. But how inflation, as opposed to ordinary expansion, can in some manner displace all the mass or energy of the universe without physically moving it, defies common understanding. A violation of Einstein's prohibition of speeds in excess of that of light seems to be inherent in that process. (Bill Mitchell)
8. What is Decelerating?

If the universe is expanding and, if that expansion is decelerating due to gravitational attraction of the mass of the universe, as Big Bang theorists believe, they have not made it clear whether the expansion of space is decelerating, or whether the expansion of the matter in space is decelerating. A lack of clarity regarding this matter would seem to add to the difficulties of Big Bang Theory. (Bill Mitchell)
9. Distant Galaxies in the Hubble Deep Field are not 'Primitive' and Move as if Surrounded by Matter.

Since heavy metals are formed by Supernovas, thus early stars (first generation in the Big Bang) should not show metal content - yet they do.
Further, recent evidence shows that the motion of distant galaxies (as determined by the matter around them) contradicts Big Bang theory. (The wave structure of matter predicted this - see the Cosmology Predictions.
10. The Big Bang Satisfies the Religious Creation Myth

Though we like to think of science as the objective study of truth, history shows that this is far from the truth. Most scientists are religious - this necessarily influences their thinking. As Nietzsche writes of philosophers and scientists, they;
"... pose as having discovered and attained their real opinions through the self-evolution of a cold, pure, divinely unperturbed dialectic: while what happens at bottom is that a prejudice, a notion, an 'inspiration,' generally a desire of the heart sifted and made abstract, is defended by them with reasons sought after the event" (Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil)
Thus we can understand why the Big Bang theory is so popular, it satisfies this religious need for a god / creator. As Pope Pius XII wrote;
In fact, it seems that present-day science, with one sweeping step back across millions of centuries, has succeeded in bearing witness to that primordial 'Fiat lux' (Let there be light) uttered at the moment when, along with matter, there burst forth from nothing a sea of light and radiation, while the particles of the chemical elements split and formed into millions of galaxies ... Hence, creation took place in time, therefore, there is a Creator, God exists! (Pope Pius XII, 1951)
 

Cliffy

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Meh - I don't know. I used to admire the man until he cheated on his wife with his nurse. somehow his judgement calls became more suspect ....
That must have been a long time ago. Some people grow up and learn from their mistakes. There are few who have not strayed from the path, even the wise and the faithful. If we are wise, we take the wisdom spoken for our own edification and let the rest slide on by.
 

eanassir

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There is no doubt we were created. Doubt rests in the process. Evolution creates and creation evolves.

God creates male and female of every species then let them reproduce. Such process of creation takes place whenever and wherever God likes.

E.g. When the Children of Israel wandered about in the desert of Sinai, and they disobeyed their prophet Moses - salam be to him - then God punished them with many kinds of punishments.

One of such punishment, He set on them the poisonous snakes, and many of them died because of the bites of such poisonous snakes.
It could be God Almighty created such snakes there in Siani and set them on the disobedient, and many of them died of the bite of the poisonous snakes, especially in the valley of Sauf.
 

darkbeaver

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God creates male and female of every species then let them reproduce. Such process of creation takes place whenever and wherever God likes.

E.g. When the Children of Israel wandered about in the desert of Sinai, and they disobeyed their prophet Moses - salam be to him - then God punished them with many kinds of punishments.

One of such punishment, He set on them the poisonous snakes, and many of them died because of the bites of such poisonous snakes.
It could be God Almighty created such snakes there in Siani and set them on the disobedient, and many of them died of the bite of the poisonous snakes, especially in the valley of Sauf.

Oh yes of course the Sinai desert wandering children of Israel. It is reasonably certain that their wandering involved moving from one scene of barbaric carnage inflicted on their contemporaries to the next.
 

#juan

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Meh - I don't know. I used to admire the man until he cheated on his wife with his nurse. somehow his judgement calls became more suspect ....

It wasn't that simple.

Months after Hawking completed his first draft of A Brief History of Time in 1988, his wife Jane told him that she was cheating on him with the widower who led their church choir and helped take care of Stephen. He was none too pleased about this development.

Jane cared for him until 1991, when after three children, he dumped her for his nurse, Elaine Mason, formerly wife to the man who designed the computer who allowed him to talk.
 

darkbeaver

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Hardly legions DB.

If someone checks the DNA of those bacteria they will find that they are related to every other creature on Earth.

I don't doubt that. I will look for the article. That wave stuff is interesting. We see all kinds of replacement theorys for the big bang, I like the simple one though, and the electric is simple and familiar. Can we speak of waves and particles without speaking of electricity and magnetism? Personally I don't think it's possible but I'm not averse to being wrong or corrected.:canada:
 

eanassir

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Hardly legions DB.

If someone checks the DNA of those bacteria they will find that they are related to every other creature on Earth.

I don't doubt that. I will look for the article. That wave stuff is interesting. We see all kinds of replacement theorys for the big bang, I like the simple one though, and the electric is simple and familiar. Can we speak of waves and particles without speaking of electricity and magnetism? Personally I don't think it's possible but I'm not averse to being wrong or corrected.:canada:

Although electricity is a kind of energy like heat and others; but the "heat" is more simple and straightforward explanation:

The hot object is alive; the cold is dead.
The hot object spins around itself and attracts other cold or less hot objects.:faroah:
 

Bar Sinister

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Jan 17, 2010
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God creates male and female of every species then let them reproduce. Such process of creation takes place whenever and wherever God likes.

E.g. When the Children of Israel wandered about in the desert of Sinai, and they disobeyed their prophet Moses - salam be to him - then God punished them with many kinds of punishments.

One of such punishment, He set on them the poisonous snakes, and many of them died because of the bites of such poisonous snakes.
It could be God Almighty created such snakes there in Siani and set them on the disobedient, and many of them died of the bite of the poisonous snakes, especially in the valley of Sauf.

I see you have given up using the Koran to support science and are now using the wonderfully reliable Old Testament. What will be your next source - The Epic of Gilgamesh? Gulliver's Travels?
 

eanassir

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Oh yes of course the Sinai desert wandering children of Israel. It is reasonably certain that their wandering involved moving from one scene of barbaric carnage inflicted on their contemporaries to the next.

The Children of Israel were "God's chosen people": He chose them to worship Him alone without associate; but most of them disobeyed and rebelled against Moses.

God was with them as long as they kept their covenant with Him: to worship Him exclusively, abandon the idolatry and obey His apostles.

But this later on was changed into barbaric as you said; while now they do not work according to God's program; they move according to their religious and political leaders who lied to them: that they should return to Palestine and kill the Palestinian people and stay in Palestine instead of the Palestinian people, and they lied to them that this is plan of God (while God has not commanded them to any of that);

their leaders lied to them also that they are preferred to other people and they should kill the Palestinians to decrease their number and drive them of their homeland (like it is written in their Torah about the old Palestinians who were idolaters.)

While Palestinians now are not idolaters: they worship God Almighty and believe in Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and all the prophets of God.

The snakes that were set on them in Sinai: in the valey of Sauf (I am not sure of the pronunciation); this is written in the Torah.
 

eanassir

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I see you have given up using the Koran to support science and are now using the wonderfully reliable Old Testament. What will be your next source - The Epic of Gilgamesh? Gulliver's Travels?


Ha ha ha

Bar Left, :smile:
Guilliver Travels is only a story of imagination [Its writer derived it from the old Arabic story of One thousand and One Nights (which was translated to English as The Arabian Nights) In this Arabic story Guilliver Travels is like Sindbad Travels: also he went to an Island of giants, and to an Island of dwarfs.

While the story of Robinson Cruiso is somewhat similar to the story of Hay Bin Yaqdhan who lived in an island since his early childhood, and he did not meet any people: then he started to think and know his Creator ...etc; it is a philosophical story; it might have been translated to English ?? [It was written in Arabic by Ibin or Bin Tufail]

But Gilgamish epic may be a traditionally distorted story of Noah's mission and his people and the deluge?
 
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L Gilbert

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God creates male and female of every species then let them reproduce. Such process of creation takes place whenever and wherever God likes.

E.g. When the Children of Israel wandered about in the desert of Sinai, and they disobeyed their prophet Moses - salam be to him - then God punished them with many kinds of punishments.

One of such punishment, He set on them the poisonous snakes, and many of them died because of the bites of such poisonous snakes.
It could be God Almighty created such snakes there in Siani and set them on the disobedient, and many of them died of the bite of the poisonous snakes, especially in the valley of Sauf.
This has nothing to do with science. Keep your religious nonsense in the religious threads, please.
 

L Gilbert

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Hardly legions DB.

If someone checks the DNA of those bacteria they will find that they are related to every other creature on Earth.

I don't doubt that. I will look for the article. That wave stuff is interesting. We see all kinds of replacement theorys for the big bang, I like the simple one though, and the electric is simple and familiar. Can we speak of waves and particles without speaking of electricity and magnetism? Personally I don't think it's possible but I'm not averse to being wrong or corrected.:canada:
Sound is an energy separate from electricity and it is wave. If I clap my hands there are sound waves originating from the displacement of molecules. No electricity.
Throw a rock into a pool of water. No electricity but there are waves.
 

Praxius

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Ex-federal minister: Hawking has it wrong
Ex-federal minister: Hawking has it wrong - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca

MONTREAL — Stephen Hawking’s warnings of an alien invasion have prompted a vigorous defence of extraterrestrials by their most prominent Canadian fan.

Former federal defence minister Paul Hellyer, 86, believes not only that aliens have visited Earth but also that they have contributed greatly to human technological advances.

So he can’t quite understand why the world renowned astrophysicist views them with such trepidation; Hawking recently warned that malevolent aliens could lead to the destruction of humanity.

The longtime cabinet minister accuses Hawking of spreading misinformation about extraterrestrials. "I think he’s indulging in some pretty scary talk there that I would have hoped would not come from someone with such an established stature," Hellyer said in an interview.

"I think it’s really sad that a scientist of his repute would contribute to what I would consider more misinformation about a vast and very important subject."

Hawking speculates in a new documentary that most extraterrestrial life will be similar to microbes, or small animals — but he adds that advanced life forms may be "nomads, looking to conquer and colonize" new planets.

Hellyer served in the Liberal cabinets of Louis St. Laurent, Lester Pearson and Pierre Trudeau, later crossed the floor to the Conservative party, and eventually returned to the Liberals.

Hellyer, who ran for the Liberal party leadership in 1968, has been speaking out publicly about "the star visitors" for years. His most recent speech was in Washington in April 2009.

He dismisses a suggestion that some people might find his views a little hard to believe.

He says earthlings owe a lot to their alien friends. Even that computer screen on your desk, he says, can trace its origins to spaceships.

A past president of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada agrees there might be UFOs out there, but he’s a little more hesitant about aliens. He takes Hawking’s warning with a grain of salt.

"I think it’s an opinion more than anything," Randy Attwood said.

"I think he may be throwing the ball out into the field, just to try to get people to actually start talking about this."

He pointed to evidence of life on the planet Mars in the past, possibly when its orbit was different. "It had an atmosphere, it was warmer, there was running water."

Attwood says given that the planet Mars potentially had life, it’s quite possible that life, in fact, exists elsewhere in the universe.

"Whether it’s single-celled or multiple-cell, or beings that are actually travelling through space, we don’t know," he said.
 

AnnaG

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eanassir

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Stephen Hawking said: Almost there are ET and warned of making contact with them; another minister said that he is convinced about there are ET and no need for fear; while another Astronomy Society director said: This is possible.

Actually, there are ET on Mars and other planets with the exception of Mercury and Venus on which there had been once life there but it was exterminated.
The planets are inhabited

And there will be some meeting between the inhabitants of Earth and the inhabitants of some other planets
 

Bar Sinister

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Hellyer seems to be mistaking Hawking's warning as a bad thing. I wonder if Hellyer would leap face first into a body of water before finding out if it was deep enough first. Would he offer a bite of food to a grizzly without making sure the grizzly wouldn't take his hand off, too?
Politicians is soooo stoopid.


Never overlook the fact that at the age of 86 Hellyer might be even more senile than I am.
 

Praxius

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Hellyer seems to be mistaking Hawking's warning as a bad thing. I wonder if Hellyer would leap face first into a body of water before finding out if it was deep enough first. Would he offer a bite of food to a grizzly without making sure the grizzly wouldn't take his hand off, too?
Politicians is soooo stoopid.

The problem with what you say is that it seems you're suggesting he should know what he's getting into before getting into it.

But if Hawking says we should avoid alien contact at all cost because of the slim chance they're evil and want to kill us all.... how are we ever going to know what he says is true or what we're getting into in the first place?

Sometimes you never know what's going to happen until you jump right into something.

The mere fact that Hawking suggests we tuck our tails up our arses and run for the hills, thus avoid learning about something new and possibly projecting our development in mankind further, is clearly not the mind of a scientist, sounds more like some religious fanatic trying to scare people from the unknown and keep them ignorant, and I have to say I've lost a lot of respect for him.

Hell, even if the aliens were evil & bad and want to kill us all or enslave us all.... what the hell does Hawking have to worry about? The worst they can do to him is Cure him, make him able to walk and talk and then put his sorry ass to work with the rest of us.

And I'd say it's about damn time :p