Sixth Annual Israeli Apartheid Week

Are all human being entitled to fundamental human rights?

  • Yes, all people are entitled to food, clothing, shelter, medicine...

    Votes: 11 64.7%
  • No, only some people are entitled to human rights.

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Palestinians don't qualify as human beings.

    Votes: 5 29.4%

  • Total voters
    17

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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What is a Zionists?
Zionists believe that the Jews are a people and deserve a country of their own. Zionists believe in Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. Zionism is not against anyone and it is not racist. Zionism implements the right of self determination of the Jewish people.
Until the 19th century, almost every Jew was a Zionist at heart, but there was no Zionist movement, and therefore no political Zionism. Theodor Herzl founded the Zionist political movement, though he was not the first Zionist. This is the real truth about Zionism and Zionists. Read about the History of Zionism and Zionists.

Nothing wrong with being a Zionist.​
"Zionism implements the right of self determination of the Jewish people."
Does the above mean they have to obey all the Laws that the rest of the world has agreed to follow or end up in court over? (actual implementation of that part is rather sad to say the least). Specifically avoid war crimes and try to make sure everyone has basic necessities of life and hopefully more than just that.(education, health care, leisure activities)

When that goal used methods that break laws they should be stopped, by force if necessary. That is how other situations were solved, send in the bombs. A month like Gaza went through might get them listening to UN Resolution rather than just handing any complaints to the US with the orders, 'Make it go away."

Nazis weren't considered bad until they started wars and killing civilians. Communism wasn't bad until it's solution to making people more equal was to first kill off a large percentage of the poorest (leaving more for the rest, corrupted because it remained a two system Nation, the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.
Chasing people out of their houses late at night and telling them leave and never come back or die is a crime, like it or not. The door was opened only if they used above board methods, buy the land. The 33 countries that gave then the right to go there (and the guns) should have been the ones to pick up the bills. Obviously taking it by force is more than just an economic thing, I'm sure most people here would agree that if you took that girl (from someplace in Europe)that was chained up by her own dad and abused and raped and ect as a mail order bride you can expect an unusual marriage just on how she would react to various social settings.

Not every abused person should be given a chain-gun, it's bad for the neighborhood.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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"Zionism implements the right of self determination of the Jewish people."
Does the above mean they have to obey all the Laws that the rest of the world has agreed to follow or end up in court over? (actual implementation of that part is rather sad to say the least). Specifically avoid war crimes and try to make sure everyone has basic necessities of life and hopefully more than just that.(education, health care, leisure activities)

Again the Nazi word, you are not even close when trying to compare Israel with Nazi Germany. Yes, the Nazi were considered bad before the concentration camps were built. As soon as they began blaming the Jews for their problems (similar to what is happening here) up to "Kristallnacht"

We (every sovereign country) are not subject to the rules and laws that anyone has agreed to follow, we have no world government where each state/country is a voting member subject to its decisions.
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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What is a Zionists?
Zionists believe that the Jews are a people and deserve a country of their own. Zionists believe in Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. Zionism is not against anyone and it is not racist. Zionism implements the right of self determination of the Jewish people.
Until the 19th century, almost every Jew was a Zionist at heart, but there was no Zionist movement, and therefore no political Zionism. Theodor Herzl founded the Zionist political movement, though he was not the first Zionist. This is the real truth about Zionism and Zionists. Read about the History of Zionism and Zionists.​


Nothing wrong with being a Zionist.​

In order to create a pure Jewish state on land occupied by over a million people, you must remove all those people. Now if these people were legally bought out and compensated with their cooperation, I'd support Zionism. Instead these people driven off the land and forced into refugee camps without compnsation. Some of the refugee camps controlled by Israel have become concentration camps. These activities are war crimes and crimes against humanity and are evil.

Anyone who supports what Israel does to their non-citizens, is a supporter of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Regarding that tunnel Israel claimed was being used for offnsive purposes, Israel never offered any evidence to support their claims and given Israel long record of deception, I'm not inclined to believe them without some supporting evidence.

In the meantime I am inclined to believe Former US President Jimmy Carter who has a solid reputation as an honest broker in the middle east. Here is what he wrote in a column about the ceasefire and how it ended.

...
After extended discussions with those from Gaza, these Hamas leaders also agreed to accept any peace agreement that might be negotiated between the Israelis and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who also heads the PLO, provided it was approved by a majority vote of Palestinians in a referendum or by an elected unity government.
Since we were only observers, and not negotiators, we relayed this information to the Egyptians, and they pursued the cease-fire proposal. After about a month, the Egyptians and Hamas informed us that all military action by both sides and all rocket firing would stop on June 19, for a period of six months, and that humanitarian supplies would be restored to the normal level that had existed before Israel's withdrawal in 2005 (about 700 trucks daily).
We were unable to confirm this in Jerusalem because of Israel's unwillingness to admit to any negotiations with Hamas, but rocket firing was soon stopped and there was an increase in supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel. Yet the increase was to an average of about 20 percent of normal levels. And this fragile truce was partially broken on Nov. 4, when Israel launched an attack in Gaza to destroy a defensive tunnel being dug by Hamas inside the wall that encloses Gaza...

Jimmy Carter - An Unnecessary War - washingtonpost.com
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
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United States
In order to create a pure Jewish state on land occupied by over a million people, you must remove all those people. Now if these people were legally bought out and compensated with their cooperation, I'd support Zionism. Instead these people driven off the land and forced into refugee camps without compnsation. Some of the refugee camps controlled by Israel have become concentration camps. These activities are war crimes and crimes against humanity and are evil.

Anyone who supports what Israel does to their non-citizens, is a supporter of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Regarding that tunnel Israel claimed was being used for offnsive purposes, Israel never offered any evidence to support their claims and given Israel long record of deception, I'm not inclined to believe them without some supporting evidence.

In the meantime I am inclined to believe Former US President Jimmy Carter who has a solid reputation as an honest broker in the middle east. Here is what he wrote in a column about the ceasefire and how it ended.

You answered your own statement, any non citizen has no rights unless granted by a country they want to live in. A country does not adapt to you, you adapt to it. Those people who left, did so because of fear of what Arabs would do to them or fear of the unknown. Israel welcomed Arab's who wanted to become citizens, in fact they have a Arab population. Israel did not drive anyone who wanted to stay and become part of their nation out.

"We were unable to confirm this in Jerusalem because of Israel's unwillingness to admit to any negotiations with Hamas, but rocket firing was soon stopped and there was an increase in supplies of food, water, medicine and fuel. Yet the increase was to an average of about 20 percent of normal levels. And this fragile truce was partially broken on Nov. 4, when Israel launched an attack in Gaza to *destroy a defensive tunnel being dug by Hamas inside the wall that encloses Gaza*..."

Hamas has no right to dig a tunnel to run anything into Gaza unless it is screened by Israel or someone they can trust. Other than that, I agree progress has been made. Hamas can worry about digging tunnels after a firm peace is negotiated.

PS: Jimmy Carter??? :roll:

 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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EAO

You should also be aware of J Carters slurs against Jews when he was president - and before - So quoting an Anti Semite just does not cut it

By the way those poll questions are as slanted as your personal opinion -

Last but not least - Numerous reputable news agencies have verified that Hamas smuggles in weapons thru these tunnels - Do you think that anything coming in they do not have a final say on - and rest assured these smugglers know who butters their bread -

PS - How else was Hamas getting weapons in - The Terror Fairy puts them under their flack jackets at night.

Shxt - you must have grown up well protected and never exposed to common sense.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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There are tunnels between Canada and US does that mean Canadians use them to smuggle US soldiers or Americans try to kidnap Canadian soldiers?
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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The Nazis didn't have a "Final Solution" for their "undesirables" until the 1940's.

Yeah, inspired by the Mufti of Jerusalem. Go figure.

During the 1930's, the Nazis behaved in much the same manner as the Zionists behave today. I'm not saying the Zionists currently have a plan to exterminate "undesirables", but that such a plan is inevitable if Zionists maintain their current downward spiral of ever more frequent and greater atrocities.

Ironically, the Palestinians do have such a plan regarding the Jews, and they seem proud to teach it to their children.

Clearly Zionists intend to cleanse the region formerly known as Palestine and now known as Israel and the Occupied Territories of all non-Jews.

Considering the only people being cleansed from areas of Palestine are Jews, that is not clear at all.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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There are tunnels between Canada and US does that mean Canadians use them to smuggle US soldiers or Americans try to kidnap Canadian soldiers?
Petros - My friend I would expect better from you - though we differ on some topics - that is reasonable -
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Come on Goobs. You can't say there isn't any food or medicines brought in through those tunnels more than any other reason. Of course Israel won't say that food, people, drugs (both rec and med) are the primary uses of the tunnels. Use logic.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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You obviously have no empathy for these fellow human beings. Otherwise, you'd have no trouble understanding their anger.

The only ones with no empathy for these fellow human beings are the "freedom fighters" you adore who purposefully worked to provoke the Israeli's into war for the past 10 years.

Imagine how you would feel about the people who make you rot in the filth and squalor of a concentration camp.

photos: lovely Gaza… « In Gaza

Yeah. Just like the Warsaw Ghetto. No difference.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Yeah, inspired by the Mufti of Jerusalem. Go figure.



Ironically, the Palestinians do have such a plan regarding the Jews, and they seem proud to teach it to their children.



Considering the only people being cleansed from areas of Palestine are Jews, that is not clear at all.

JTF

I take it that all the quotes are from EAO - Would i be in error or correct as i could not search thru all his drivel - Life is to short -

This is another one

Clearly Zionists intend to cleanse the region formerly known as Palestine and now known as Israel and the Occupied Territories of all non-Jews. Obviously Zionists have no moral dilemma committing atrocities, war crimes or crimes against humanity. I suspect the main reason why they haven't started a extermination campaign has more to do with not wanting bad publicity and loosing American support rather than ethics or morals, since they clearly lack both.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Come on Goobs. You can't say there isn't any food or medicines brought in through those tunnels more than any other reason. Of course Israel won't say that food, people, drugs (both rec and med) are the primary uses of the tunnels. Use logic.

Petros My Friend - Of course food and drugs come thru these tunnels - I also believe weapons do as well

Hamas is the worst thing to happen to the Gaza Strip - Endless War -
I do fell for the average Palestinian that has to suffer because of Fanatics - and yes Israel has to be brought to the peace table - and if that requires lessening aid and sanctions - i would agree - but it also has to mean that Hamas also be held to account -

Attacks mean another attack in response and on it goes.

I am sure that you would also agree that children are being brainwashed - indoctrinated thru Hams TV- Radio and schools to hate the Jews.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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The only ones with no empathy for these fellow human beings are the "freedom fighters" you adore who purposefully worked to provoke the Israeli's into war for the past 10 years.



photos: lovely Gaza… « In Gaza

Yeah. Just like the Warsaw Ghetto. No difference.

So ... who are the freedom fighters and who are the common every day Joes who are caught in the middle and being tarred by terrorists' brushes? It is exactly the same in both camps - innocent people caught in the crossfire between ideals.
 

Just the Facts

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Oct 15, 2004
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As Israeli atrocities continue to grow in scale and frequency, they become more difficult to ignore.

Classic projection. It was the increasing scale and frequency of Arab attacks on Jews that made it impossible for Israel to keep ignoring. They tried to ignore it. Showed restraint. But enough was enough. That's why there was war in Gaza, that's why they're building a wall, and that's why there are checkpoints.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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and yes Israel has to be brought to the peace table - and if that requires lessening aid and sanctions - i would agree - but it also has to mean that Hamas also be held to account -
There is something I'd like you to look into Goobs. Do some research into the speeches given by Palestinian leaders over the years and look to see which word pops up more , peace or justice.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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There is something I'd like you to look into Goobs. Do some research into the speeches given by Palestinian leaders over the years and look to see which word pops up more , peace or justice.
When i have time I may just do that - But i do not consider Arafat as anything more that a terrorist and a massive thief -
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Millions of people lived on that land before Israel existed. When they fled due to war, they have a right to return to their homes and reclaim their property as per international law. Denying this right is a war crime. Ethnically cleansing land of people because they have the wrong religion, is a war crime.

The part of Israel where the Israeli government builds Jewish only colonies for their Jewish citizens over the bulldozed non-citizen Arab homes, farms and businesses is an Apartheid system.

The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."

Are you going to claim that Arabs living in the West Bank have the same rights and freedoms as the Jewish Israeli citizens living in their Jewish only colonies? One land, two peoples. As a rdirect result of Israeli policies, one group has full rights, the other has no rights. That's apartheid.


As we debate this, Israel's ethnic cleansing continues in the WEst Bank and East Jerusalem. The Israeli government evicts people from their homes and demolishes them. Then they build homes for Jewish citizens to hide the evidence of their ethnic cleansing. Meanwhile the Arabs live on the streets, having lost their homes without a cent of compensation. And you support this war crime?

This war crime has been going on for over 60 yeares now. It was a war crime back then, it was a war crimes 30 years ago and its still a war crime now.

Miliband condemns Israeli move
March 10 2010

Britain has joined the United States in condemning the announcement by Israel of a planned new settlement in disputed East Jerusalem.

The timing of the announcement during a visit by US Vice President Joe Biden infuriated the Americans, prompting an unusually strong denunciation of the Israeli action by Mr Biden.

His concerns were echoed by Foreign Secretary David Miliband who warned that it would undermine efforts to revive the stalled Middle East peace process.

"This is a bad decision at the wrong time. It will give strength to those who argue that Israel is not serious about peace. Along with our EU partners, I condemn it as certain to undermine the mutual confidence we need," he said in a statement...

Miliband condemns Israeli move - World News, Breaking News - Enniscourthyguardian.ie

US-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements
By KARIN LAUB and STEVEN GUTKIN (AP) – 2 hours ago
RAMALLAH, West Bank — An open diplomatic row during the visit of Vice President Joe Biden has shined a spotlight on the U.S. failure to rein in Israeli settlement ambitions and deepened Palestinian suspicions that the United States is too weak to broker a deal.

Biden's handshakes and embraces gave way to one of the strongest rebukes of Israel by a senior U.S. official in years after Israel's announcement during his visit that it plans to build 1,600 homes in disputed east Jerusalem....

The Associated Press: US-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements

Biden's strong rebuke was really a gentle chiding, for political purposes only. Effectively, Israel is getting American tax payers to pay for settlement expansion with billions in ecoomic aid each year. Most of the bombs, bullets and chemical weapons Israelis use to kill Palestinian civilian are made in the US and bought with American tax dollars. American industrialists are making a killing off killing Palestinian woman and children. Which gives this Biden statement a double meaning:

....Yesterday, Biden emerged from talks with Abbas in Ramallah, on the occupied West Bank, and repeated his criticisms of the timing and substance of Israel's announcement. "It is incumbent on both parties to build an atmosphere of support for negotiations and not to complicate them," he said.

"The decision by the Israeli government to advance planning for new housing units in East Jerusalem undermines that very trust, the trust that we need right now in order to begin … profitable negotiations."

Palestinians snub peace talks because of Israeli homes expansion | World news | guardian.co.uk


As far as Jimmy Carter being anti-Semitic, that's pure BS. Read his letter regarding this type of slander:
The Carter Center - Advancing Human Rights and Alleviating Suffering

If Carter is anti-Semtitic, then I guess that makes the Nobel Committee anti-Semititc too:
The Nobel Peace Prize 2002
The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided to award the Nobel Peace Prize for 2002 to Jimmy Carter, for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development.

During his presidency (1977-1981), Carter's mediation was a vital contribution to the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt, in itself a great enough achievement to qualify for the Nobel Peace Prize. At a time when the cold war between East and West was still predominant, he placed renewed emphasis on the place of human rights in international politics.

Through his Carter Center, which celebrates its 20th anniversary in 2002, Carter has since his presidency undertaken very extensive and persevering conflict resolution on several continents. He has shown outstanding commitment to human rights, and has served as an observer at countless elections all over the world. He has worked hard on many fronts to fight tropical diseases and to bring about growth and progress in developing countries. Carter has thus been active in several of the problem areas that have figured prominently in the over one hundred years of Peace Prize history.

In a situation currently marked by threats of the use of power, Carter has stood by the principles that conflicts must as far as possible be resolved through mediation and international co-operation based on international law, respect for human rights, and economic development.

Oslo, 11 October 2002
Press Release - Nobel Peace Prize 2002

How about the ICRC, are they also anti-Semitic?


The International Committee of the Red Cross 2001 Annual Report:
...The Geneva Conventions were again at the

centre of a major news story when the

head of the ICRC's delegation in Israel, the

occupied territories and the autonomous

territories stated at a press conference in

May that Israeli settlements in the West

Bank and Gaza technically constituted a

"war crime"
...

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/BBAA8808591AF97CC1256C050058CD0D/$File/PART1_AR_2001.pdf

Technical nothing. Its a blatant war crime.

Your abuse of the term anti-semitic to label anyone who dares point out Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity reduces its meaning to nothing.