Put an end to illegal drug use?

[VanIsle]

Liquor stores don't work. Salon Selectives is $2.59 and if you can't come up with change the alcohol gel in the hand thing at the mall is just as good for those who aren't your wine connoisseur types.

So true. Just take your bottle of Purell, pour some into a dish and add a little salt. The alcohol separates immediately. The inmates don't get purell (or it's equivalent) anymore.

You know this how? Why do liquor stores work? Risk is inflation. I think it's safe to say that 90% of street price is dealer mark-up.

I don't know. It's just an opinion.

 

[lone wolf]

I don't know. It's just an opinion.

A valid one ... and to a certain extent, I agree because you can't legislate human nature. If a person wants to get high, they'll get high. Why should taxpayers be footing the bill in tracking them down? This may sound cold hearted but they're either going to die or recover - but they'll pay any price for the buzz all the while they're actively using.

 

[AnnaG]

There is no way in hell crack could be by Rx. There isn't a crackhead alive who can control themselves. They will sit and do hit after hit until it's gone or their heart packs it in.

Fine, then give them a 3 month supply at a time.

In the end it would eliminate the crackhead but a death sentence by that means is deplorable at best.

It's a self imposed de4ath sentence sooner or later anyway, and I think suicide should be legal. So?

You know this how? Why do liquor stores work? Risk is inflation. I think it's safe to say that 90% of street price is dealer mark-up.

I'd bet on that, too. Every time a drug changes hands before it gets to a user more cost is added. Kinda like most other goods we buy.

Liquor stores don't work. Salon Selectives is $2.59 and if you can't come up with change the alcohol gel in the hand thing at the mall is just as good for those who aren't your wine connoisseur types.

Reaching for extremes? tsk tsk
For the vast majority of people liquor stores work fine. People grumble about prices, some accept it and some make their own booze.

Kid's are dieing or being turned into vegetables from huffing propane daily in northern Canada.

Oh great. We better add propane to the list of illegal drugs then. Along with gasoline, nutmeg, glue, etc.

A valid one ... and to a certain extent, I agree because you can't legislate human nature. If a person wants to get high, they'll get high. Why should taxpayers be footing the bill in tracking them down? This may sound cold hearted but they're either going to die or recover - but they'll pay any price for the buzz all the while they're actively using.

..... and we''l keep paying in futile attempts to stop drugs.

 

[Cliffy]

They were informed enough to know that opium was dangerous enough to make it worth fighting two wars against the British over its trade. They lost both wars, and so the free opium trade continued to grow out of control under British-imposed liberalization. Once China had regained its sovereignty, bringing the opium epidemic under control was among its first priorities. I think a country that has managed to fight its way out of an opium epidemic knows a thing or two more about it than we do.

Yes, didn't they shoot them all along with all the intellectuals and college professors? Any government knows how lucrative the drug trade is and moves to control it. We have such a massive problem because the core of the drug trade is controlled by government. The CIA, the DEA and the RCMP are all in cahoots. They control the hard drugs while busting grow ops. Two reasons: they can't control a weed and it is not addictive so their is no guaranteed market for them. (remember Ollie North and Air America? Do you think anything has changed?)

 

[AnnaG]

Twilight Zone alert!
The rise in asthma cases is the result of a gov't control, too.

 

[bill barilko]

YouTube - Toddler Who Smokes Two Packs of Cigarettes Per Day! Ardi Rizal (Original, HD)

 

[AnnaG]

]WTF does that have to do with the discussion? That's not even Canadian let alone Canadian culture.

 

[JLM]

Do you want to question me or lecture me? If there is no profit for the dealer, the dealer will go out of business - or into another one. Product gets retailed through an outlet similar to LCBO so it can be taxed and anyone selling without a licence is busted under the same circumstances that a bootlegger gets nailed. Cheaper (and taxed) product make it less likely that a user will get into crime to pay for the habit. I can't see it being any worse than legal booze.

Legalizing dope gets rid of the dealer, but the only reason the dealer is evil is because his merchandise is evil, so the problem still hasn't really been solved. Once dope is legalized then you will have people using it who previously wouldn't have just because of the fact it's illegal.

 

[darkbeaver]

The majority of addicts in the world are addicted to legal prescription "medications". Those kill hundreds of thousands every year, right in your nicer neighbourhoods.

Twilight Zone alert!
The rise in asthma cases is the result of a gov't control, too.

Cannabis is a fine asthma medication.

 

[AnnaG]

Legalizing dope gets rid of the dealer, but the only reason the dealer is evil is because his merchandise is evil, so the problem still hasn't really been solved. Once dope is legalized then you will have people using it who previously wouldn't have just because of the fact it's illegal.

Ah, so you base your opinion on a maybe?
Regardless, drugs would be cleaner, the drug users would likely be healthier (from not having all the weird additives added to drugs), the gov't (taxpayers) would save a bundle not having to chase pushers around, etc. It'd be easier to get people to try drug free programs if they weren't paranoid about cops try to fish info out of them concerning their preferred dealer.

 

[darkbeaver]

Legalizing dope gets rid of the dealer, but the only reason the dealer is evil is because his merchandise is evil, so the problem still hasn't really been solved. Once dope is legalized then you will have people using it who previously wouldn't have just because of the fact it's illegal.

There is no bad dope just bad people.

 

[JLM]

Ah, so you base your opinion on a maybe?
Regardless, drugs would be cleaner, the drug users would likely be healthier (from not having all the weird additives added to drugs), the gov't (taxpayers) would save a bundle not having to chase pushers around, etc. It'd be easier to get people to try drug free programs if they weren't paranoid about cops try to fish info out of them concerning their preferred dealer.

No maybes about it...............:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[JLM]

There is no bad dope just bad people.

I prefer to think the opposite (at least in the majority of cases) I personally know nothing about dope, but a lot about people who have suffered from addiction. You are the first person I've come across who says Crystal Meth. isn't bad. :smile:

 

[AnnaG]

No maybes about it...............:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

So what's your solution? More "war on drugs"? That hasn't proved to have done much good.

 

[lone wolf]

Legalizing dope gets rid of the dealer, but the only reason the dealer is evil is because his merchandise is evil, so the problem still hasn't really been solved. Once dope is legalized then you will have people using it who previously wouldn't have just because of the fact it's illegal.

Nothing's foolproof. There would probably be some for whom once the thrill of getting way with something is gone, interest would wane too. Legalized and regulated, you wouldn't have dealers rubbing something else into the mix for more volume - or the ones who add the more addictive stuff to get people hooked (like opiate in weed) Most OD deaths are caused by supplies that can be as weak as 5% or almost pure - but nobody tells the user the count.

 

[JLM]

So what's your solution? More "war on drugs"? That hasn't proved to have done much good.

I'm not sure but Machjo's solution might be the most sensible. :smile:

 

[AnnaG]

look at #2 on this short list:
"The most commonly abused drug (other than alcohol) in the United States by individuals over the age of 12 is Marijuana, followed by prescription painkillers, cocaine and hallucinogens."
"Each year, drug abuse and drug addiction cost employers over 122 billion dollar in lost productivity time and another 15 billion dollars in health insurance costs." and that's without providing the numbers for police investigations, actions, court activities, and prison costs related to drugs..

 

[AnnaG]

I'm not sure but Machjo's solution might be the most sensible. :smile:

Guess I should go find it and read it.

 

[AnnaG]

Good question. I guess the first questions could be:

Do we focus on the demand side,the supply side, or both, and do we treat them the same way?

Do we try to regulate the drug trade gradually out of existence or do we try to criminalize it out of existence?

I don't know the answer for sure, but am willing to give it a shot in the dark:

Learn from countries that have a proven success rate in bringing the drug trade down. China comes to mind. After the opium trade imposed by the British so as to try to balance Britain's trade deficit with China, some estimate that the male addicted population was about 25%. It's probably a high estimate, but it does reveal that however high it was, it had clearly reached epidemic proportions. The fact that the British had won both Opium Wars over Chinese attempts at regulating opium, thus allowing the British to impose the trade of opium without restriction ensured that the epidemic could reach proportions no country would normally tolerate. A country that can find means of fighting such an epidemic effectively once it had regained national control over its own laws is certainly a country that would know a hell of a lot more than we would about how to deal with the drug trade effectively.

The Chinese had learnt their lesson well. You deal with it at the supply side. Anyone caught selling illegal drugs in China is sure to get the death penalty or, at the judge's discretion, life imprisonment. And they do not care one iota if you're a Chinese citizen or a foreigner. They will protect their population from such evil.

Are we prepared to learn from those who have real experience in this and who have in fact succeeded in bringing a trade of epidemic proportions under control?

Let's consider too that China's liberalization of the opium trade was not of its own choosing, but was imposed by military force. Are we prepared to be so stupid as to liberalize drugs on our own soil freely and willingly as China had done under foreign military force?

We've seen the epidemic that liberalization can cause by China's example. Are we prepared to submit to such an epidemic freely and willingly?

Let's learn from history and those who have the knowledge and experience.

Criminalize the sale of illegal drugs, with the death sentence or life imprisonment being applied as selling such drugs essentially amounts to slow murder



China doesn't deal with the addicts except as medical cases. It goes after the supply side, not the demand side, but it cracks down hard on the supply side. They have plenty of historical experience in such matters. Let's learn from the best in this matter.



The British had imposed what you're proposing on China, and it led to an epidemic. Are you sure you want to revisit that? Ask the Chinese, and I'm sure they'd think you're crazy. Their drug trade is more or less under control today, but over a century ago, it was rampant owing to British-imposed liberalization. Is that really the route you want to take? What makes you think things would be so much different in Canada than was the case in China? Are we somehow special and immune from such epidemics? Why would liberalization succeed in Canada where it had failed in China a century before?

Deal with the supply side and cut off tis head... literally if necessary.

Ah, so we become like China and dump human rights and make everyone a tattletale on their neighbor, and the guy that sells a nickelbag of pot gets the noose. Nifty Idea.

 

[Cliffy]

people who have never done drugs need to try some to understand what it is they are talking about. Classifying pot with crack and crystal meth is just plain ignorant. Alcohol and prescription drugs cost society a million times more than pot does. Eat a hash brownie and see if you still want to kill the dealer. The pusher, on the other hand, is the guy who sells stuff than will kill your soul. Legalize hard drugs and eliminate that monster.