Put an end to illegal drug use?

[DurkaDurka]

Gee. I wonder how it works concerning all the other drugs people get. Last time I noticed, people got prescription from doc, they went to pharmacist, picked up prescription and went home to take their meds. You mean this is wrong? You mean that people would not eventually prefer trusted drugs over the weird shyte they find on the street? The reason drug people make money is by making the drugs impure and charging the max of whatever the market will bear. If the drugs are made under gov't control, I bet the production cost and the profit cost would be less than the street. Add a tax to bring it to a little less that street value and no-one would buy from dope dealers.

People around here get prescriptions that cover a year at a time. Pharmacists usually give out 3 or 4 month supply at a time, so no, people would not be rushing off to their doc every other hour. :roll:

You are naive to think a crackhead in any way resembles someone looking to fill a regular prescription. Seeing the lack of trust in the government as it is, I highly doubt a drug addict will trust the government as their dealer.

You obviously haven't been exposed to the drug culture so I can understand why your ideas sound a little yuppyish.

 

[AnnaG]

You are naive to think a crackhead in any way resembles someone looking to fill a regular prescription. Seeing the lack of trust in the government as it is, I highly doubt a drug addict will trust the government as their dealer.

And you are naive to think that legalisation has to stick to one rule for everyone.
How many crackheads do you know?

You obviously haven't been exposed to the drug culture so I can understand why your ideas sound a little yuppyish.

I've spent a little time in St. Paul's in Vancouver and saw plenty of them occupying beds that other people could have used. I asked about it and was told that the hospital can't refuse them treatment because they always (and she stressed the "always") have something medical wrong with them. Not only that, she said that almost all blow their welfare check the same day they get them and within a day or two come to the hospital to live for as long as they can milk it.

Outside of Canadian cops becoming stormtroopers and riding all over everyone's rights in order to stop an unstoppable force (as Machjo implied), have you anything constructive to add?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

 

[Bar Sinister]

people who have never done drugs need to try some to understand what it is they are talking about. Classifying pot with crack and crystal meth is just plain ignorant. Alcohol and prescription drugs cost society a million times more than pot does. Eat a hash brownie and see if you still want to kill the dealer. The pusher, on the other hand, is the guy who sells stuff than will kill your soul. Legalize hard drugs and eliminate that monster.

Hey - what about Reefer Madness? How can one so easily dismiss the facts in a documentary like that?

 

[AnnaG]

BTW, addiction is a disease.
http://www.thirteen.org/closetohome/science/index.html

http://www.medical-online.com/addict.htm

http://worldwideaddiction.com/articles/diseaseconcept.htm

 

[Cliffy]

Hey - what about Reefer Madness? How can one so easily dismiss the facts in a documentary like that?

I bet I smoked 5 joints while watching that "documentary" back in 1969 for the first time. I bet over 5 pounds were smoked in that theater. Almost as many melted brain cells as Woodstock! One of the funniest movies I ever saw. Better than Cheech and Chong.

 

[taxslave]

If weed were available at liquor outlets I'd still grow my own. And if I lived in China I'd grow my TEN LEGAL PLANTS

Is that ten plants per person or per household? Either way I agree, growing your own is much safer and easier to control quality than store bought.
I think all rational people are agreed that addictions should be treated as a medical issue rather than a criminal offense and taking the profit out of drug sales would curb organized crime involvement. But there are a lot of people on both sides of the law with a vested interest in keeping most drugs illegal. Except for the ones they control like alcohol, tobacco and prescription meds. Which by strange coincidence just happen to cover the most addictive and harmful drugs.

 

[taxslave]

I bet I smoked 5 joints while watching that "documentary" back in 1969 for the first time. I bet over 5 pounds were smoked in that theater. Almost as many melted brain cells as Woodstock! One of the funniest movies I ever saw. Better than Cheech and Chong.

That was quite a hoot alright. Amazing how many gulible people think there are some facts in it. When my son was in his early teens him and his buds wore our copy out. That and up in smoke, which is much more realistic than Reefer Madness.









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[AnnaG]

Ok. Now I gotta wander through youtube and see if they got it.

 

[JLM]

And you are naive to think that legalisation has to stick to one rule for everyone.
How many crackheads do you know?

I've spent a little time in St. Paul's in Vancouver and saw plenty of them occupying beds that other people could have used. I asked about it and was told that the hospital can't refuse them treatment because they always (and she stressed the "always") have something medical wrong with them. Not only that, she said that almost all blow their welfare check the same day they get them and within a day or two come to the hospital to live for as long as they can milk it.

Outside of Canadian cops becoming stormtroopers and riding all over everyone's rights in order to stop an unstoppable force (as Machjo implied), have you anything constructive to add?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

Which raises another question that I've often wondered about- why confirmed druggies are eligle for welfare and yet those not willing to work or have a valid reason why they can't are not. Just another reason why I doubt there is a sincere desire to end the problem. :smile::smile:

 

[petros]

You are the first person I've come across who says Crystal Meth. isn't bad. :icon_smile:

If you are in the Canadian or American services (especially an airman) you are on a daily dose of methamphetamine.

Soldiers have been on crank since WWII

 

[Ron in Regina]

If you are in the Canadian or American services (especially an airman) you are on a daily dose of methamphetamine.

Soldiers have been on crank since WWII

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine

 

[petros]

Left handed molecule drugs are the worst kind.

 

[L Gilbert]

I think legalizing drugs would end more grief than it would cause. Gov't wouldn't have to legalize them all at the same time. It could start with the less harmful to society such as pot and hash, then perhaps psilocybins and the like, and so on.
I really don't see much difference between most illegal drugs and legal ones like tobacco and alcohol. It's all extremely addictive to some people.
According to science, one is either addictive-prone or not. At least legal drugs are safe from noxious additives (except tobacco) because they are regulated. I bet drug makers could even slip a few vitamins, minerals, and antibiotics into the hallucinogens and whatever else to be offered in the pharmacy. It might make the drug community residents a little healthier.
BTW, China is basically a military state. You don't toe the party liner, you stand a large chance of landing in a prison or dead. Besides, those tactics don't even work for China. They have a drug problem anyway.

 

[Machjo]

Yes, didn't they shoot them all along with all the intellectuals and college professors? Any government knows how lucrative the drug trade is and moves to control it. We have such a massive problem because the core of the drug trade is controlled by government. The CIA, the DEA and the RCMP are all in cahoots. They control the hard drugs while busting grow ops. Two reasons: they can't control a weed and it is not addictive so their is no guaranteed market for them. (remember Ollie North and Air America? Do you think anything has changed?)

What the hell? Are you not able to make a distinction between various policies? Do you actually believe that support for a particular government's policy on one point automatically means support for its policies on all points? Hell no.

On the specific topic of narcotic drug policy, all other policy issues aside, China's on the ball. And no, they don't go out and kill all the addicts; they treat them as medical cases. It's the sellers that they kill off, and with damned good reason.

 

[Machjo]

Ah, so we become like China and dump human rights and make everyone a tattletale on their neighbor, and the guy that sells a nickelbag of pot gets the noose. Nifty Idea.

I just don't get this.I never said anything about dumping human rights, but merely to crack down on the sellers.

What you and others are implying is equal to saying that a person who should praise Canada's banking policies must automatically support the seal hunt.They hack F all to do one another.

I'm not talking about China's overall policies here, but specifically with regards to the drug trade. What's the hate-on for China in these threads?

 

[L Gilbert]

What the hell? Are you not able to make a distinction between various policies? Do you actually believe that support for a particular government's policy on one point automatically means support for its policies on all points? Hell no.

On the specific topic of narcotic drug policy, all other policy issues aside, China's on the ball. And no, they don't go out and kill all the addicts; they treat them as medical cases. It's the sellers that they kill off, and with damned good reason.

Why does China have a drug problem then? I bet it's because that most Chinese are not very well off and the drug trade offers massive amounts of money and the Chinese are notorious gamblers. If the gov't made the drug trade a lot less profitable the Chinese would look for other ways of getting rich quick.

 

[Machjo]

Why does China have a drug problem then? I bet it's because that most Chinese are not very well off and the drug trade offers massive amounts of money and the Chinese are notorious gamblers. If the gov't made the drug trade a lot less profitable the Chinese would look for other ways of getting rich quick.

The opium trade in China used to be totally liberalized under British imposition. Look where it got them. It gave them a bloody nationwide epidemic of addiction. Do you want your kid to be able to just buy opium off the shelf like it was a pack of cigarettes?

Some drugs are so addictive they can make a person addicted on a first try and once the person is really hooked, they can make a person who otherwise wouldn't hurt a fly kill someone for it. Drugs aren't a joke.

 

[L Gilbert]

I just don't get this.I never said anything about dumping human rights, but merely to crack down on the sellers.

And you offered China as an example. Well, we all know how China is so sensitive to human rights, don't we?

What you and others are implying is equal to saying that a person who should praise Canada's banking policies must automatically support the seal hunt.They hack F all to do one another.

Huh?

I'm not talking about China's overall policies here, but specifically with regards to the drug trade. What's the hate-on for China in these threads?

China's tactics is WHY they can crack down on the drug trade the way they do.
What hate? I dislike Chinese administration's view on a lot of things. Same as the USA or Canada.

 

[L Gilbert]

The opium trade in China used to be totally liberalized under British imposition. Look where it got them. It gave them a bloody nationwide epidemic of addiction. Do you want your kid to be able to just buy opium off the shelf like it was a pack of cigarettes?

Do people go to their doc to get a prescription for a pack? NO. They should have to, but they don't. Minors cannot buy stuff like that. It's against the law.

Some drugs are so addictive they can make a person addicted on a first try and once the person is really hooked, they can make a person who otherwise wouldn't hurt a fly kill someone for it. Drugs aren't a joke.

Ya think?
Like I said, there is pretty solid scientific evidence that some people are a lot more addiction-prone than others. I've tried a few things myself. I liked a couple and others I can do without. I wouldn't mind trying X sometime or other. When I ripped my rotator cuff and needed surgery I was on demerol for quite a while. When the pain became bearable, I dropped demerol flat and chewed the odd aspirin. Yet I hear that demerol is highly addictive. It's legal. So is nicotine in various forms.

 

[Machjo]

A proposed solution to dealing with hard drugs:

I'd be curious on your thoughts on the following strategy to deal with hard drugs in Canada:

1. Make the production, sale and distribution of such drugs without a permit illegal, with the maximum sentence being death and the minimum sentence life.

2. Grant special not-for-profit government-run rehabilitation clinics permits to sell such drugs to confirmed addicts by prescription at break-even value (i.e. neither loss nor profit to the government)tax-free, but with the aim of helping them off the drug, along with the authority to require such addicts to check in for rehabilitation at the clinic's discretion.

3. Decriminalize the purchase of such drugs, and obligate the police to offer to take suspected addicts to the nearest of the clinics referred to in '2' above.

'1' above would reduce the interest on the part of illegal sellers to sell the drug owing to harsher penalties.

'2' above would take confirmed addicts away from the illegal sellers, thus forcing illegal sellers to always have to find a new market, thus exposing them to greater risk to undercover police operations. It would also bring addicts more easily under government control, thus making it easier to bring the addiction under control.

'3' above would eliminate any fears buyers and users may have of the police, thus increasing the likelihood that they ask for help. Upon finding an addict, the police would have an obligation to offer to take him to the nearest clinic that can legally sell such drugs.

Any thoughts on this?