Our cooling world

[waldo]

Goody another graph. Must be right.

as before, as always... you're most encouraged to bring forward countering presentation that would dispute the, as you say, "rightness" of the graph above... of any graph I present. You've sure whined and wailed over a number of graphs I've linked to recently; but somehow, you never can get past your chirping state and actually challenge them. Wonder why, hey? I mean if you're so doubting the veracity of graphed presentations I'm posting, what are waiting for? Why aren't you countering them? Is there a problem for you?

Modeled could bes? Which model? None work so this graph is a wash.

Right on.

ignore the dashed red-line projection! The point was your 2 failed graphs don't include the most recent warming... the instrumental record measure (as represented by the solid red-line in the graph I presented, as above).

as for the model projection you hoped to distract on, that's quite the liberty you're taking in outright dismissing a futures projection. In any case, per that graph, the model projection is shown as high-level as could be. That dashed line actually represents CMIP3 models and depending on what related emissions scenario is chosen, the placement on that projection line will change.

but let me ask the same questions again... I believe this will make it the fifth time I've asked these questions of you. Will you answer this time - finally? Or will you simply distract away to avoid these most difficult questions for you?

you really want to say something about the 'Holocene optimum'... why not just say it? Why are you such a tease? :lol: By the by, what was the cause(s) of warming during that period... and how does that apply in relation to today's relatively recent warming?

 

[darkbeaver]

Your graph is unsourced. I've never seen a graph shpowing the MWP as 2-3 deg warmer than present day temperatures.

The grapes in the British Isles nor the cattle in Greenland paid any attention to those modeled graphs.

 

[waldo]

Your graph is unsourced. I've never seen a graph shpowing the MWP as 2-3 deg warmer than present day temperatures.

as I mentioned, member petros' graph is sourced from denier 'Don Easterbrook'... a guy whose smattering of publications has been significantly refuted. In this case, member petros' graph originates from here (although you can certainly find it on several denier blogs, in several variants of this one). Notwithstanding the outright liberty he takes in how he presents his interpretation of "IPCC predictions", this effort of his reached a fairly wide audience with even some mainstream play... a big part of that was due to how it got flogged by barking-mad mouthpiece, "Lawdy Christopher Monckton"! In any case, probably because of its profile, Skeptical Science (SS) published a decent busting of this 'Don Easterbrook' failed effort... as I said, Easterbrook has a penchant for changing up his articles (updating on them) so this SS refutation references another version of Easterbrook's article... but one close enough as it includes several verbatim extracts.

 

[Zipperfish]

as I mentioned, member petros' graph is sourced from denier 'Don Easterbrook'... a guy whose smattering of publications has been significantly refuted. In this case, member petros' graph originates from here (although you can certainly find it on several denier blogs, in several variants of this one). Notwithstanding the outright liberty he takes in how he presents his interpretation of "IPCC predictions", this effort of his reached a fairly wide audience with even some mainstream play... a big part of that was due to how it got flogged by barking-mad mouthpiece, "Lawdy Christopher Monckton"! In any case, probably because of its profile, Skeptical Science (SS) published a decent busting of this 'Don Easterbrook' failed effort... as I said, Easterbrook has a penchant for changing up his articles (updating on them) so this SS refutation references another version of Easterbrook's article... but one close enough as it includes several verbatim extracts.

Yes, if it were truly 3 deg warmer than current temperatures globally for three hundred years, the effects would have been much more significant than just grapes in England. Besides, aren't there still grapes in England?

 

[Tonington]

Your graph is unsourced. I've never seen a graph shpowing the MWP as 2-3 deg warmer than present day temperatures.

It's the GISP2 ice core from Greenland, a multi-dacade running average of the δ18O proxy for temperature. We have thermometers now, and don't require a proxy, much less one that stops at 1855. It doesn't show present day temperature. When the Greenland meteorological data is added to the ice core data, it looks like this:

Maybe you're just not used to seeing a Greenland only temperature. It was very warm in Greenland during the MWP. The rest of the planet? Not so much. Warm certainly, but not as much as it was in Greenland.

 

[Walter]

Good thing this is only weather because I believe that the world is warming due to man's CO2 emissions.
2014 Chicago Has Been Coldest In 110 Years « CBS Chicago

 

[waldo]

here Teddy... err, Walter! :lol:

Walter, get a clue!

 

[Walter]

here Teddy... err, Walter! :lol:

Walter, get a clue!

You've already converted me, waldo. All praise to AGW.

 

[waldo]

You've already converted me, waldo. All praise to AGW.

really Walter? You mean all it took was calling you out in the other thread... calling you out to support your OP... to present some of your expressed representative "facts"? Was just asking you to identify some of those "facts", all it took? Is that really all it took, Walter? :lol:

 

[EagleSmack]

“We call this a part of the climate debt owed to us, and it is needed if we are to confront climate change while still responding to the needs of people,” Lidy Nacpil, director at Jubilee South Asia Pacific Movement on Debt and Development, said in a statement. “It’s not just a question of being fair. It’s about being realistic. To be realistic means if we want a hope of stopping climate change, these transfers have to happen."


It's all about the money!

 

[petros]

What will steel be made of if power stations aren't converted to natural gas?

 

[waldo]

“We call this a part of the climate debt owed to us, and it is needed if we are to confront climate change while still responding to the needs of people,” Lidy Nacpil, director at Jubilee South Asia Pacific Movement on Debt and Development, said in a statement. “It’s not just a question of being fair. It’s about being realistic. To be realistic means if we want a hope of stopping climate change, these transfers have to happen."


It's all about the money!

you must really think your strawman has legs for you to carry it across into, now with this post, 2 distinct threads. I'll ask you the same questions you're avoiding in the other thread:

guys, guys... I'm missing the authoritative associations behind your 'gem of a find', particularly how it translates into the working process of formal climate negotiations. :mrgreen:

 

[petros]

Earth's Magnetic Field Is Weakening 10 Times Faster Now

50% Drop in the last century? Ouch.

Earth's Magnetic Shield
When the sun is very active and there is a lot of solar wind, there is less cosmic radiation reaching earth, fewer low elevation clouds are formed, and the earth warms. This relationship itself can account for most of the warming in the twentieth century. As we start the 21st century, the reverse is happening. The sun has been extraordinarily quiet and scientists have found the solar winds have declined to the lowest levels ever measured. This should cause the earth to start cooling, which it did starting in 2007.

 

[captain morgan]

you must really think your strawman has legs for you to carry it across into, now with this post, 2 distinct threads. I'll ask you the same questions you're avoiding in the other thread:

.. And you still can't address the comment.

All of your inputs are hollow and meaningless, much like the faux science in which you traffik,

 

[petros]

CM see above.

 

[waldo]

.. And you still can't address the comment.

All of your inputs are hollow and meaningless, much like the faux science in which you traffik,

I've already addressed it multiple times... it has no authority and no association to actual climate negotiations. Now... if you'd like to champion that strawman, please do so... step forward and give it legitimacy, speak to it's authority, it's associations, it's relevance! Champion that strawman you so want to give significance to.

 

[captain morgan]

I've already addressed it multiple times... it has no authority and no association to actual climate negotiations. Now... if you'd like to champion that strawman, please do so... step forward and give it legitimacy, speak to it's authority, it's associations, it's relevance! Champion that strawman you so want to give significance to.

It must make you really sad that each time you forward some 'fact', it is refuted and shut down with multiple sources... Not to say I told you so, but this is what comes of buying into faux science

 

[petros]

What happens if there is a war?

For Zipperfish:

Wavelength dependence of solar irradiance enhancement during X-class flares and its influence on the upper atmosphere | OpenSky - Providing free and open access to the scholarship of UCAR, NCAR, and the UCP

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/shindell_03/

To understand the underlying physical mechanisms by which solar variability affects climate, as well as to assess the relative strengths of solar variability versus greenhouse gases, requires computer models of Earth's climate system. However, most climate models have concentrated on the lower atmosphere, and have not included the coupling between the stratosphere and the troposphere. We have now included both realistic solar irradiance and ozone changes in a version of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies climate model which includes a representation of the complete stratosphere.

 

[darkbeaver]

Earth's Magnetic Field Is Weakening 10 Times Faster Now

50% Drop in the last century? Ouch.

Earth's Magnetic Shield
When the sun is very active and there is a lot of solar wind, there is less cosmic radiation reaching earth, fewer low elevation clouds are formed, and the earth warms. This relationship itself can account for most of the warming in the twentieth century. As we start the 21st century, the reverse is happening. The sun has been extraordinarily quiet and scientists have found the solar winds have declined to the lowest levels ever measured. This should cause the earth to start cooling, which it did starting in 2007.

Obviously this field perturbation weakens the carbon bond and allows C02 to rise into the stratusfear where it reemits the heat normally used to go up, helped by the weaker gravitational forces.

 

[Zipperfish]

It's the GISP2 ice core from Greenland, a multi-dacade running average of the δ18O proxy for temperature. We have thermometers now, and don't require a proxy, much less one that stops at 1855. It doesn't show present day temperature. When the Greenland meteorological data is added to the ice core data, it looks like this:



Maybe you're just not used to seeing a Greenland only temperature. It was very warm in Greenland during the MWP. The rest of the planet? Not so much. Warm certainly, but not as much as it was in Greenland.

Ah-soooo. Thanks Tone-Loc.