Objection to some astronomers.

Torch light

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I have a group here? I didn't know that. Who's in it?
I don't mean an official group, but the members who admire your disbelief and blasphemy, and who are like you in this respect.
You were arguing as if there is liquid surface water on Mars as there is on Earth and it supports life in a form similar to Earthly life, and that's false.
I said about water in all its forms, and you denied this in fact.
The science says that surface atmospheric pressure and temperature on Mars are such that liquid water cannot exist there, I don't recall any of "my group," whoever that is, categorically denying that there's any water there at all
Yes, you and they denied any water and any life existing there.
, and if there *is* any life there it's not large creatures like humans.
You and they denied life in all its forms.
the Quran and Al-Hilly's interpretation of it don't contain any evidence for it, just unsubstantiated claims, so don't bother citing them.
I cite the Quran and its interpretation to confirm the words of the interpreter and to let others know about this.
I am a servant of God and of His Quran.
 

Dexter Sinister

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I am a servant of God and of His Quran.
And you believe that's a good thing to be. I don't. The trouble with fundamentalist beliefs, yours and everybody else's, is that they provide no perspective on yourself. Your way of thinking is just one of many, any of which may be just as good, or bad, or useful, or not useful, as yours. But you have no way to assess that, your view is that your way is the only right way, everyone else is wrong, you're completely rigid, not interested in other views, and impervious to any ideas but your own. In today's diverse and interconnected world, that's dangerous and destructive.
 

Torch light

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And you believe that's a good thing to be. I don't.
I believe that's good and very good, whether you do or don't.
Other words of yours like fundamentalist .. etc. are useless; in fact, you and your group are the fundamentalists with your atheism and blasphemy.
And you tell others: "at your age ...etc." Don't you think? don't you contemplate your end? And they will not avail you anything, neither will you avail them.
As Abraham said to his people, the idolaters:

("You only take idols [to worship] apart from God, [in order] to have friendship among yourselves in the life of the World s ; but on Judgment Day you will deny one another and curse one another [: the leaders and the followers]; your resort [as a whole] will be [into] the fire, and you will not have any helper [to save you from God's punishment.]") --Quran 29: 25
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s By your gathering together, both the leaders and the followers, to worship the idols.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/29.htm#a29_25
 
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Dexter Sinister

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Don't you think?
Yes, I think a lot, about all sorts of things that interest me, and sometimes things that don't interest me but need to be thought about anyway. Obviously my education and life experiences have led me to very different conclusions from yours, because among the things I think is that you're completely wrong about almost everything you've ever claimed here.
 
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Torch light

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[Noah said to his people, the disbelievers] "My advice will not benefit you if I desire to advise you [more than that I have advised you] if God wills to entice you [to misguidance because of your wrong-doing]; He is your Lord, and to His [sentence] you will be returned [after your death.]"

The above is the meaning of the Quran 11: 34
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/11.htm#a11_34
 

Dexter Sinister

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The translation I use says "My advice will not benefit you—no matter how hard I try—if Allah wills ˹for˺ you to stray. He is your Lord, and to Him you will ˹all˺ be returned.” Seems perfectly clear without all those parenthetical interjections, which add nothing to it except a little confusion. I also note that surah begins, as many of them do, with a reference to Allah "the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful." If that's accurate, why would he will for me to stray when it's certainly within his power to guide me to the light instead? That's not compassionate or merciful, that's mean and spiteful, edging over into sociopathy. Regardless, however, you must believe that I am as I am because Allah wills it, which among other things means there's nothing you or I can do about it no matter, as that ayat says, how hard you or I try. He's condemned me for my wrongdoing, which he's deliberately misguided me into, and is making sure I stay that way, unless or until he changes his mind about me. If you wonder why I don't offer him unconditional admiration, and in fact don't believe in him at all, that's your answer: if he is as you claim him to be, he's not worthy of either belief or respect. A person who treated me like that, with deliberate deception and misguidance, would get short shrift from me, I see no reason why Allah, at a minimum, shouldn't be held to the same ethical standards we expect from our fellow humans. Allah, as the most compassionate, most merciful, should be able to do much better than that, that's a very bad example he's setting.
 
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petros

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[Noah said to his people, the disbelievers] "My advice will not benefit you if I desire to advise you [more than that I have advised you] if God wills to entice you [to misguidance because of your wrong-doing]; He is your Lord, and to His [sentence] you will be returned [after your death.]"

The above is the meaning of the Quran 11: 34
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/11.htm#a11_34
Speaking of Noah....what did he do about the woodpeckers?
 

Dexter Sinister

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not to mention the termites...

I guess there is only 2 of each kind though.
how much damage can they do in 40 days?
Forty days is just how long it rained for, the Ark was drifting about on the waters much longer than that. It's not quite clear in Genesis 8:1-14 how long that was, as I read it it was either 150 days or 204 days after the rain stopped that Noah and his family and all the critters emerged from the Ark onto dry land, but either way I'm fairly sure that's long enough for a pair of termites to build up a good sized nest and do a lot of damage.

Then on disembarking Noah built an altar and made a burnt offering of every clean beast and every clean fowl. Not very smart if he's got only two of each, that would have rendered all the "clean" critters, whatever that means, extinct pretty quickly. Genesis is less than clear on that too though, 7:2 says he took 7 pairs of all the clean ones, 7:8-9 says only one pair.

But as long as you're just making stuff up I suppose consistency isn't important.
 
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Torch light

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The translation I use says "My advice will not benefit you—no matter how hard I try—if Allah wills ˹for˺ you to stray. He is your Lord, and to Him you will ˹all˺ be returned.” Seems perfectly clear without all those parenthetical interjections, which add nothing to it except a little confusion. I also note that surah begins, as many of them do, with a reference to Allah "the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful." If that's accurate, why would he will for me to stray when it's certainly within his power to guide me to the light instead? That's not compassionate or merciful, that's mean and spiteful, edging over into sociopathy. Regardless, however, you must believe that I am as I am because Allah wills it, which among other things means there's nothing you or I can do about it no matter, as that ayat says, how hard you or I try. He's condemned me for my wrongdoing, which he's deliberately misguided me into, and is making sure I stay that way, unless or until he changes his mind about me. If you wonder why I don't offer him unconditional admiration, and in fact don't believe in him at all, that's your answer: if he is as you claim him to be, he's not worthy of either belief or respect. A person who treated me like that, with deliberate deception and misguidance, would get short shrift from me, I see no reason why Allah, at a minimum, shouldn't be held to the same ethical standards we expect from our fellow humans. Allah, as the most compassionate, most merciful, should be able to do much better than that, that's a very bad example he's setting.
How many times have I replied about this? It seems many people here do not read; only keep objecting.
Anyhow, you insist on 'Allah' instead of 'God'; However, it is the same.

I am not condemning anyone that he must be a wrongdoer; but I say: Most people are wrongdoers... and if they ask God's forgiveness and repent, it might be OK; but they insist and persist on doing the wrong.

If you do not understand the equation.. it means you try to ignore the truth.. i.e. you understand, but out of your pride, you don't want to admit it.

God does not guide the wrongdoer... the wrongdoer knows very well his wrongdoing; God knows and he knows.. while we don't know about the wrongdoing of others.
Let the wrongdoer repent from his wrongdoing, and God may forgive and guide him.

Examples:
Noah's people did not believe him: they were worst in their wrongdoing.. and they were drowned.
Lot's people were wrongdoers .. they did not believe Lot .. they perished in the earthquake.
The tribe of Aad near Yemen did not believe because of their wrongdoing.
The tribe of Thamud in the north of Arabia were wrongdoers and so they did not believe Prophet Salih and they perished in the earthquake.
Pharaoh's people did not believe Moses because they were wrongdoers and they disbelieved Moses and were drowned.

Quran 53: 50-54, which mean:
(50. And that He destroyed the past [tribe of] Aad [when they denied their messenger.]
51. And [the tribe of] Thamood: He spared not [when they denied their messenger.]
52. And [We destroyed] the people of Noah before; surely they were more unjust and more rebellious [than ‘Aad and Thamood.]
53. And the ‘demolished and overturned’ [cities of Lot's people] were even more at going down [into Hell.]
54. And there covered them [the wreckage] that did cover the [city because of the earthquake.]
55. [O unbelieving man,] which is it then of the bounties of your Lord, that you deny?)
quran-ayat.com/pret/53.htm#a53_50

 
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Torch light

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When people indulge in their doing the wrong, they will be misguided.. they will follow many creeds of the idolatry and atheism ... etc.
So God sends them a warner to warn them that they will be punished, so if they repent and desist from their wrongdoing .. they will be saved.
But if they arrogantly persist in their wrongdoing, they will disbelieve and disobey their warner and they will be destroyed.
This is in general.

Quran 10: 100, which means:
(No soul can believe [according to your will], but only by God's leave [to His angels to inspire him e .]
And He places a [psychological] illness upon those who do not use their minds [but they hold fast with the traditions of their fathers.])
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e It means: God gives permission to His angels to let him long and desire for the belief, by inspiring into him, so that he will believe and convert.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/10.htm#a10_100
 

Ron in Regina

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When people indulge in their doing the wrong, they will be misguided.. they will follow many creeds of the idolatry and atheism ... etc.
OK, who decides what is wrong and what isn’t in your world?
So God sends them a warner to warn them that they will be punished, so if they repent and desist from their wrongdoing .. they will be saved.
…and….are there False-warners in your world? If not, then just anyone can claim to be one (?) or there’s some guaranteed way to determine a Real-Warner from a False Warner?
But if they arrogantly persist in their wrongdoing, they will disbelieve and disobey their warner and they will be destroyed.
This is in general.
What if someone follows a ‘Warner’ and does what that Warner tells them to do, but that Warner is a false-Warner….& that someone is actually doing wrongdoing, but thinking they’re doing right doing, because they’re doing what the ‘Warner’ says that they should be doing??? Does your God give credit for following a False-Warner?
Quran 10: 100, which means:
(No soul can believe [according to your will], but only by God's leave [to His angels to inspire him e .]
And He places a [psychological] illness upon those who do not use their minds [but they hold fast with the traditions of their fathers.])
........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

e It means: God gives permission to His angels to let him long and desire for the belief, by inspiring into him, so that he will believe and convert.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/10.htm#a10_100